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  1. #1
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    Aug 2003
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    Scenario of a kidnapping gone wrong

    What if PR and/or JR killed their daughter, by accident or design? To cover it up they planned to take the body to an obscure location and write a ransom note. If there is no body in the house the case for a kidnapping is more probable.

    There is a possibilty that after they murdered their child they thought of a plan to prove kidnapping. It was their plan to take the body and hide it somewhere away from the house. Maybe John carried the body to his car and put it in the back seat or the trunk. Then they wrote the ransom note.

    But something happened to prevent JR from driving the body away from the house. Something unexpected that caused the Ramseys to put the strangled body in the wine cellar. Perhaps the body was still in the car when Fleet White first searched the basement and looked into the wine cellar. Somehow John transferred the body from his car to the wine cellar.

    I can't say how he accomplished this and what happened to their original plan, but it does explain why the ransom note was written.

    Did LE check the garage and the cars in the garage?

    Sorry, if this has been discussed before. I just thought that this could have happened and wanted to share my questions.

  2. #2
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    Or, instead of the car, they put the body in a cupboard, or freezer.

    I've always been troubled by the fact that the 911 call happens around 6am, and the body isn't found until 1:05pm. Police, friends, neighbors all were in the house, and a search had been done. Yet, 7 hours go by before the body is found. Like everything else about the case, it doesn't make sense.

    You are absolutely right that when the body is found -in the house- the note instantly becomes a fake. And JR had slipped away from the view of the police for well over an hour starting around 10:40, so he'd have had time and opportunity to place the body in the wine room. That would also explain why FW didn't see the body when he checked.

  3. #3
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    I think any innocent parent would have found their child within an HOUR or less if that happened to them.I know I would have checked and rechecked every nook and cranny of the house and basement, attic if there is one, as well as the yard,neighborhood,etc.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778
    I think any innocent parent would have found their child within an HOUR or less if that happened to them.I know I would have checked and rechecked every nook and cranny of the house and basement, attic if there is one, as well as the yard,neighborhood,etc.
    Every person I've ever talked to about this case says exactly what you just said.

    Only the Ramseys have such faith in a RN that they don't bother searching the house.

  5. #5
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    Feb 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778
    I think any innocent parent would have found their child within an HOUR or less if that happened to them.I know I would have checked and rechecked every nook and cranny of the house and basement, attic if there is one, as well as the yard,neighborhood,etc.
    Yes, so would I. As far as I see it this is the big problem with the IDI theory.You would check if your daughter really was missing, kidnapped or whatever.Of, course if you knew she was dead at your hand why would you bother? Unless you feign looking for the benefit of LE.I have no doubt that if the Ramsay's did kill JBR then they were 'surprised and horrified' that Fleet White did not find her body. Unless, they were really hopeing nobody did.Leaving the finding of JBR to John who picked her up and contaminated the crimescene.

  6. #6
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    Aug 2006
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    I dunno--hate to defend the Ramseys, but I have a five year old daughter, and I don't think if I found a ransom note saying she'd been kidnapped, I wouldn't search the house for her. I mean, if she were just MISSING, then yes, of course I would search for her, but if she's not in her bed and there's a note saying she's been kidnapped, I would probably just call the police.

    Karen
    Last edited by kayebee; 09-05-2006 at 10:59 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrishope
    Every person I've ever talked to about this case says exactly what you just said.

    Only the Ramseys have such faith in a RN that they don't bother searching the house.
    I would search because what if the KN had dropped her,or he/she had been raped or injured,or the KN decided to abandon the idea and the child is hiding out of fear,either in the house or somewhere else outside.Not only that, but for evidence,what else might be missing,and possible entry/exit point.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayebee
    I dunno--hate to defend the Ramseys, but I have a five year old daughter, and I don't think if I found a ransom note saying she'd been kidnapped, I would search the house for her. I mean, if she were just MISSING, then yes, of course I would search for her, but if she's not in her bed and there's a note saying she's been kidnapped, I would probably just call the police.

    Karen

    Then you are the only person I've ever heard of who wouldn't.

    What if it a bad practical joke?

    The police would check your house, why would they do that if they had a RN ?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    Police always search the house and the surrounding areas, SOP. Except in Boulder, Co.

    Has any of you consider an ET abduction? UFO's don't provide boarding lists to the FBaI.

    That or the simple one: 4 went into that house, and 4 remain there the next morning, one was deceased.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro
    Police always search the house and the surrounding areas, SOP. Except in Boulder, Co.
    My point exactly. They do it even when there is a ransom note. Not hard to see why most parents would do a search too.


  11. #11
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    Mar 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrishope
    My point exactly. They do it even when there is a ransom note. Not hard to see why most parents would do a search too.
    If my memory doesn't fail (been many years now) I think Fleet White searched the house and open the door to that room before John Ramsey ever did.

    Sure people makes mistakes, I mean, I misplace my keys sometimes, so I guess people can also misplace a child inside an empty room while looking for...a child.

    It all makes sense.

    Now this is just my opinion, nothing but my opinion and I am sure I am dang wrong.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro
    If my memory doesn't fail (been many years now) I think Fleet White searched the house and open the door to that room before John Ramsey ever did.

    Sure people makes mistakes, I mean, I misplace my keys sometimes, so I guess people can also misplace a child inside an empty room while looking for...a child.

    It all makes sense.

    Now this is just my opinion, nothing but my opinion and I am sure I am dang wrong.
    That's correct, FW did check the room before JR, and FW didn't find the body.

  13. #13
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    Mar 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrishope
    That's correct, FW did check the room before JR, and FW didn't find the body.
    Right, that is when the ET people (little green ones) come into play...

  14. #14
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    Aug 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayebee
    I dunno--hate to defend the Ramseys, but I have a five year old daughter, and I don't think if I found a ransom note saying she'd been kidnapped, I would search the house for her. I mean, if she were just MISSING, then yes, of course I would search for her, but if she's not in her bed and there's a note saying she's been kidnapped, I would probably just call the police.

    Karen
    I agree with kayebee, I don't find it improbable or strange that the R's would not search the house. The police where there and even they weren't making extensive searches of the house for a dead body, both the R's and the police were treating the situation as it seemed, a kidnapping, not a murder. Any CSI or police officer, if they felt it was a murder situation, would have searched areas such as the car, freezer, etc. It was Linda A., a police officer on the scene, who suggested JR make the search, if she had any feeling that JB was dead in the house, she/her team would have looked themselves.

    For all of you who say you would have searched the house first, the old adage "hindsight is often 20/20" applies. I would have been glued to the telephone waiting for the phone call, holding on to the hope my child was alive. I would not have even entertained the possibility that my child was dead, and I would have left the searching up to the police so as not to contaminate the scene, mess up any evidence leading to the whereabouts of my child.

    And for those people who think it was weird that Patsy and John remained separated during the initial investigation and that Patsy did not immediately come running when John came up the stairs with JB's body, men and women, and indeed each individual, responds differently to trauma, such differences are not right or wrong, they just are. It is common for men (or certain individuals regardless of whether they are male or female) to feel they need to be constantly active, doing something when trouble arises. Many women find such activity more upsetting and distance themselves from what they perceive as a nuisance/distraction from experiencing/recognizing the pain of the situation at hand. Men often want to act, women want to sit and think/talk/reflect. And who is to say for certaint that you or I, too, would not have been so paralyzed with fear and worry for our child that we would not have been able to move from the chair to get up and see what was going on, who wants to face the death of a child/loved one?

    When we look at things from only one perspective, it is very easy to encode completely innocent behaviour and/or mere coincidence as "proof" for our pet theory, discounting/throwing out any incompatible information/evidence.

    I will agree, however, that JB's body could have initially been in the freezer, trunk of the car, etc. during the initial searches of the house. We do not know for sure if the police looked in these areas. It is possible that that FW, JR, or someone else may have found the body first, cleaned JB and redressed her, etc. in an attempt to give her some dignity before moving her to the wine cellar.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    189
    Do you remember that it was Xsmst and took forever to get anyone qualified to investigate any crime in there?

    They had one single officer for hours, inside a house full with people. The crime scene, the whole house and yard, was contaminated big time.

    The investigation was doomed since the first minute.

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