770 users online (81 members and 689 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 158 of 158 FirstFirst ... 58 108 148 156 157 158
Results 2,356 to 2,370 of 2370
  1. #2356
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3
    Flourish, I got your joke right away and thought it was quite clever. I even LOL'd...for what it's worth.

  2. #2357
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3
    So, this is my first time posting an observation, I am kinda new to this site, in that I have not had a great deal of time to read every single detail about the case, document notes, etc. I hope I am not being a "troll", but up to this point, I have been reading, learning, and absorbing. I am impressed with the keen eyes of posters here, the knowledge so many hold, and the true genuineness of members just wanting justice for many cases, especially this one.

    With that said, I hope what I am posting is within the rules. I have read over the rules, but not studied them, (working full-time, kids, life, etc...). If what I post is not following rules, anyone feel free to remove it.

    My observation is one that I have just noticed. I am sure someone has addressed this before, or I would imagine someone has, because the caliber of members on this website far beyond my abilities. If this has already been discussed, please forgive me and ignore me for not being caught up. I have just been interested in this case for a few years and my late husband was a Criminal Investigator, so unsolved cases have always interested me. On with my observation....

    I have been listening to the depositions of JR and PR by Darnay Hoffman in the Chris Wolfe civil case on youtube. In JR's deposition, he was asked about the RN and also about the practice note ( I apologize I do not have the exact point on the video, I tried to listen for it this morning while getting ready for work, but it must have came on while my hairdryer was on because I have not yet found it). Anyway, during the deposition Darnay refers to the RN and asks JR if he notices any thing odd or remarkable about the note (not sure of the exact question). JR replies first by saying the length of the note stood out to him, then he went on to say that also how he was addresses formally in the opening of the note, then more informal as the note progresses. He states "the beginning of the ransom note addresses us as Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey, then later calls me John". I think at this point Darnay corrects him by saying "the ransom note says Mr. Ramsey, not Mr. and Mrs.", at which point John brushes it off as "oh yeah, that's what I meant, I just knew it was formal in the beginning".
    At the same time I am listening to this, I am also reading Kolar's book and in it he states that the practice note found on PR's notepad said "Mr. and Mrs. I" which to him looked like the beginning of an "R". So, this is my thing, had both PR and JR discussed whether to address the RN to both of them, then decided to go with just JR and during the deposition, JR kinda told on himself?

    Again, I apologize if my observation is nothing, or has already been discussed. I have read quite a bit in order to educate myself, but admittedly have not read everything. I also agree with previous posters about JR being a manipulative person. I think they both are, JR just seems like a highly intelligent man who has had the opportunity to advance his skills of manipulation with his continued work in business, whereas PR may have been a bit rusty on her stage performance because she stated she spent her days doing things around the house (besides cleaning), shopping, etc.

    Thanks for letting me post, this is JMHIO.

  3. #2358
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    8,850
    Quote Originally Posted by JillRN View Post
    So, this is my first time posting an observation, I am kinda new to this site, in that I have not had a great deal of time to read every single detail about the case, document notes, etc. I hope I am not being a "troll", but up to this point, I have been reading, learning, and absorbing. I am impressed with the keen eyes of posters here, the knowledge so many hold, and the true genuineness of members just wanting justice for many cases, especially this one.

    With that said, I hope what I am posting is within the rules. I have read over the rules, but not studied them, (working full-time, kids, life, etc...). If what I post is not following rules, anyone feel free to remove it.

    My observation is one that I have just noticed. I am sure someone has addressed this before, or I would imagine someone has, because the caliber of members on this website far beyond my abilities. If this has already been discussed, please forgive me and ignore me for not being caught up. I have just been interested in this case for a few years and my late husband was a Criminal Investigator, so unsolved cases have always interested me. On with my observation....

    I have been listening to the depositions of JR and PR by Darnay Hoffman in the Chris Wolfe civil case on youtube. In JR's deposition, he was asked about the RN and also about the practice note ( I apologize I do not have the exact point on the video, I tried to listen for it this morning while getting ready for work, but it must have came on while my hairdryer was on because I have not yet found it). Anyway, during the deposition Darnay refers to the RN and asks JR if he notices any thing odd or remarkable about the note (not sure of the exact question). JR replies first by saying the length of the note stood out to him, then he went on to say that also how he was addresses formally in the opening of the note, then more informal as the note progresses. He states "the beginning of the ransom note addresses us as Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey, then later calls me John". I think at this point Darnay corrects him by saying "the ransom note says Mr. Ramsey, not Mr. and Mrs.", at which point John brushes it off as "oh yeah, that's what I meant, I just knew it was formal in the beginning".
    At the same time I am listening to this, I am also reading Kolar's book and in it he states that the practice note found on PR's notepad said "Mr. and Mrs. I" which to him looked like the beginning of an "R". So, this is my thing, had both PR and JR discussed whether to address the RN to both of them, then decided to go with just JR and during the deposition, JR kinda told on himself?

    Again, I apologize if my observation is nothing, or has already been discussed. I have read quite a bit in order to educate myself, but admittedly have not read everything. I also agree with previous posters about JR being a manipulative person. I think they both are, JR just seems like a highly intelligent man who has had the opportunity to advance his skills of manipulation with his continued work in business, whereas PR may have been a bit rusty on her stage performance because she stated she spent her days doing things around the house (besides cleaning), shopping, etc.

    Thanks for letting me post, this is JMHIO.
    JillRN,
    Hey there and welcome. There is always something folks have missed. Sure does look like JR misspoke as they say? He does this at various points in the case, e.g. chair in front of door, on TV his tongue snakes out,

    Patsy was pretty clever , she was no dummy, housework, what housework, they had a maid! Patsy had stars in her eyes she wanted JonBenet on TV, in pageants etc, she saw the future for JonBenet, she actually said JonBenet was her current project, thats elitist code for I'll do what it takes


    The real question is : is the case PDI with the parents staging the wine-cellar to give Patsy a Get Out Of Jail Card? If so then BR and JR patently know who did it, otherwise they both know one of them killed JonBenet, which one?

    .

  4. #2359
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    270
    Quote Originally Posted by JillRN View Post
    So, this is my first time posting an observation, I am kinda new to this site, in that I have not had a great deal of time to read every single detail about the case, document notes, etc. I hope I am not being a "troll", but up to this point, I have been reading, learning, and absorbing. I am impressed with the keen eyes of posters here, the knowledge so many hold, and the true genuineness of members just wanting justice for many cases, especially this one.

    With that said, I hope what I am posting is within the rules. I have read over the rules, but not studied them, (working full-time, kids, life, etc...). If what I post is not following rules, anyone feel free to remove it.

    My observation is one that I have just noticed. I am sure someone has addressed this before, or I would imagine someone has, because the caliber of members on this website far beyond my abilities. If this has already been discussed, please forgive me and ignore me for not being caught up. I have just been interested in this case for a few years and my late husband was a Criminal Investigator, so unsolved cases have always interested me. On with my observation....

    I have been listening to the depositions of JR and PR by Darnay Hoffman in the Chris Wolfe civil case on youtube. In JR's deposition, he was asked about the RN and also about the practice note ( I apologize I do not have the exact point on the video, I tried to listen for it this morning while getting ready for work, but it must have came on while my hairdryer was on because I have not yet found it). Anyway, during the deposition Darnay refers to the RN and asks JR if he notices any thing odd or remarkable about the note (not sure of the exact question). JR replies first by saying the length of the note stood out to him, then he went on to say that also how he was addresses formally in the opening of the note, then more informal as the note progresses. He states "the beginning of the ransom note addresses us as Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey, then later calls me John". I think at this point Darnay corrects him by saying "the ransom note says Mr. Ramsey, not Mr. and Mrs.", at which point John brushes it off as "oh yeah, that's what I meant, I just knew it was formal in the beginning".
    At the same time I am listening to this, I am also reading Kolar's book and in it he states that the practice note found on PR's notepad said "Mr. and Mrs. I" which to him looked like the beginning of an "R". So, this is my thing, had both PR and JR discussed whether to address the RN to both of them, then decided to go with just JR and during the deposition, JR kinda told on himself?

    Again, I apologize if my observation is nothing, or has already been discussed. I have read quite a bit in order to educate myself, but admittedly have not read everything. I also agree with previous posters about JR being a manipulative person. I think they both are, JR just seems like a highly intelligent man who has had the opportunity to advance his skills of manipulation with his continued work in business, whereas PR may have been a bit rusty on her stage performance because she stated she spent her days doing things around the house (besides cleaning), shopping, etc.

    Thanks for letting me post, this is JMHIO.
    Great catch. Yes, JR was caught out on that one.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  5. #2360
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    717
    Quote Originally Posted by JillRN View Post

    Anyway, during the deposition Darnay refers to the RN and asks JR if he notices any thing odd or remarkable about the note (not sure of the exact question). JR replies first by saying the length of the note stood out to him, then he went on to say that also how he was addresses formally in the opening of the note, then more informal as the note progresses. He states "the beginning of the ransom note addresses us as Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey, then later calls me John". I think at this point Darnay corrects him by saying "the ransom note says Mr. Ramsey, not Mr. and Mrs.", at which point John brushes it off as "oh yeah, that's what I meant, I just knew it was formal in the beginning".
    Yeah its a huge slip up. John does something similar in the 'interrogation' when the ransom note is brought up. He screws up the time for the call. Instead of 8-10, John says 10-12. 10 to 12 had never been mentioned before by anybody, not LE, experts, sleuths, etc.

    What's happening when these types of slip ups occur is John is remembering the alternate plan that was never implemented. Instead of a note to John, it's a note to both of them. Instead of a call coming between 8 to 10 am, it was going to be 10 to 12. He acted surprised when corrected on this as well. This could also be a minor reveal. He may have had little to do with the writing of the note(which I believe) and he never paid much attention to it.

  6. #2361
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    192
    so many gotcha points we have!
    I requested a new thread specifically to put all these gotcha points in!
    hoping a mod reviews it soon :-)

  7. #2362
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by singularity View Post
    Yeah its a huge slip up. John does something similar in the 'interrogation' when the ransom note is brought up. He screws up the time for the call. Instead of 8-10, John says 10-12. 10 to 12 had never been mentioned before by anybody, not LE, experts, sleuths, etc.

    What's happening when these types of slip ups occur is John is remembering the alternate plan that was never implemented. Instead of a note to John, it's a note to both of them. Instead of a call coming between 8 to 10 am, it was going to be 10 to 12. He acted surprised when corrected on this as well. This could also be a minor reveal. He may have had little to do with the writing of the note(which I believe) and he never paid much attention to it.
    That's exactly it!! To me, it says that they both were participating in the writing of the RN, Patsy was just more confident that she could hide her natural handwriting and fool everyone. I suppose I am a BDI believer, because I do not think that either parent would have went to such lengths to cover for each other. Eventually, I think one of them would have had so much hate for the other and spilled the beans. In the case of BDI, however, they both had a mutual goal, and that was to save their only living child. That's what kept them going with the cover-up. I think they made excuses for him all those years, telling themselves and each other that BR is just different, no one understands him, he needs help, otherwise, wouldn't they have,without realizing it, almost shunned him. I suppose what I am trying to say is, I love my children with all my heart and soul and would protect them any way I could. IF one of them injured or killed (GOD FORBID) the other, how would one keep from resenting the living child, even though you still love them? Maybe that is why he has kind of been a loner and seems so odd. Maybe there was not much interaction between parents and child after the awful night and that is why he is so strange. Sorry, I am rambling, I think, I am just thinking about this as I write.

  8. #2363
    Committing murder is not a "cover up", which is exactly what John and/or Patsy did if we're to accept BDI. She was alive when her parents made a decision to sacrifice her life for her brother's, and choked her to death. A cover up is when, upon finding your daughter unconscious due to a blow to the head inflicted by her brother, you call 911 and say she fell down the stairs. Fashioning a torture device designed to kill is premeditated murder. The cause of death was asphyxiation.

    To say that neither parent would cover for the other is a wild assumption. Sure it sounds illogical to us, but stranger occurrences have happened. Casey Anthony's father stayed with his wife who declares Casey's innocence even after he was accused of sexual abuse. He's estranged from Casey while his wife is still in contact with her. That sounds absolutely crazy, but dysfunctional dynamics exist.

  9. #2364
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    8,850
    Quote Originally Posted by Peppermintswirlz View Post
    Committing murder is not a "cover up", which is exactly what John and/or Patsy did if we're to accept BDI. She was alive when her parents made a decision to sacrifice her life for her brother's, and choked her to death. A cover up is when, upon finding your daughter unconscious due to a blow to the head inflicted by her brother, you call 911 and say she fell down the stairs. Fashioning a torture device designed to kill is premeditated murder. The cause of death was asphyxiation.

    To say that neither parent would cover for the other is a wild assumption. Sure it sounds illogical to us, but stranger occurrences have happened. Casey Anthony's father stayed with his wife who declares Casey's innocence even after he was accused of sexual abuse. He's estranged from Casey while his wife is still in contact with her. That sounds absolutely crazy, but dysfunctional dynamics exist.
    Peppermintswirlz,
    The parents need not have killed JonBenet to instigate a cover up !


    They might only have staged a homicide, i.e. the wine-cellar crime-scene. As I understand it this is James Kolar's position, although not spelled out word for word.

    Kolar's BDI All has Burke doing it all: killing and assaulting JonBenet with some amateur staging thrown in. Along come the parents and move JonBenet down to the basement, redress, wipe down, and apply a ligature device, voila - you have the wine-cellar crime-scene?

    This seems to be the best explanation for most of the evidence, at least better than either JDI, or PDI, yet it does not rule them out.

    Remember both parents did not remove crucial forensic evidence, e.g. the pineapple snack, yet someone removed the clean size-12's, weird, probably along with JonBenet's size-6 underwerwear?

    So they removed what they knew about, and left what they were ignorant about. This might explain JR's cornucopia of stories regarding various items in the basement?

    if the case is PDI, why did Patsy kill her baby, then inflict a fake sexual assault, and place her in the wine-cellar, JonBenet was her Project?

    .

  10. #2365
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    94
    Question I've got:

    We all know JB was found with her arms above her head in full rigor and she was more than likely strangled by the paint tote near the wine cellar since carpet fibers where found on her face (as far as I've read anyway).

    Just had a thought- even though we probably wont know for sure, do you think JB's arms were placed over head when she was being strangled from behind? Or were they placed above her head after the strangulation?


  11. #2366
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    8,850
    Quote Originally Posted by AlGx View Post
    Question I've got:

    We all know JB was found with her arms above her head in full rigor and she was more than likely strangled by the paint tote near the wine cellar since carpet fibers where found on her face (as far as I've read anyway).

    Just had a thought- even though we probably wont know for sure, do you think JB's arms were placed over head when she was being strangled from behind? Or were they placed above her head after the strangulation?
    AlGx,
    JonBenet's arms might have been located as you describe because someone dragged her by the arms, say from one bedroom to another, or from the breakfast bar to the basement, think: all those marks on her body?

    The affixing of JonBenet's ligature screams staging, like was one of the surviving Ramsey's reading books on Thuugee techniques? Why was the ligature device knotted at the back, i.e. why bother, when the purpose is to kill, not create celtic knots at a crime-scene.

    So its quite likely JonBenet was posed as she was found because whomever applied the ligature thought thats how a dead body should look?

    That is the wine-cellar is a staged crime-scene from top to bottom.

    .

  12. #2367
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Globe or Earth or whatever
    Posts
    137
    pre-mortem - strangulation

    post-mortem - wrapping, hand drawing?, dressing?, moving body and so on

    I was able to imagine moving the body from near winecellar to a winecellar via hands.

    Dragging a 6-year-old and wrapping her, no information marks on her body were post-mortem.

    Taking this into account I am assuming that he was dressing her just after strangulation and it took him a while to think what to do next.

    [edit] Dragging the body by hands just after strangulation = BDI with rest of "staging" much later. I am not able to imagine adult dragging her to move her anywhere.

    Seems my starting PDI ideas "saved" my soul from taking BDI into account.
    Last edited by archieil; 11-17-2017 at 12:31 AM.
    JonBenét Case, The burglar Theory:
    http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/...rglar%20Theory

  13. #2368
    I sometimes think what if a friend of JB i.e daughter of FW (God forbid) was found dead in that hellhole on that Christmas night instead of JB .. With no evidence of an intruder as per grand jury indictments , would all three walk free as the victim was put under cold soil?

  14. #2369
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    3,456

    My own opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by MURDERER_SERVANT View Post
    I sometimes think what if a friend of JB i.e daughter of FW (God forbid) was found dead in that hellhole on that Christmas night instead of JB .. With no evidence of an intruder as per grand jury indictments , would all three walk free as the victim was put under cold soil?
    It has always bothered me that we are supposed to hold FW as if a Golden Column meant for worshipping.
    I have an entire dossier on him that I've never felt at ease to present due to the worship of the Golden Column. I will add that he holds none of my respect. Ditto all of that for Hunter.

    One only needs to stand back to see the whole picture.

  15. #2370
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    270
    Quote Originally Posted by DeDee View Post
    It has always bothered me that we are supposed to hold FW as if a Golden Column meant for worshipping.
    I have an entire dossier on him that I've never felt at ease to present due to the worship of the Golden Column. I will add that he holds none of my respect. Ditto all of that for Hunter.

    One only needs to stand back to see the whole picture.
    Hey, it is Fleet White Friday, after all.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Page 158 of 158 FirstFirst ... 58 108 148 156 157 158


Similar Threads

  1. Questions (and answers)
    By debirlfan in forum Annie Le
    Replies: 81
    Last Post: 10-06-2009, 01:31 PM
  2. Questions we wish we had the answers to
    By docwho3 in forum JonBenet Ramsey
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-30-2007, 02:01 PM
  3. Questions and Answers
    By dragonfly707 in forum JonBenet Ramsey
    Replies: 125
    Last Post: 08-23-2006, 12:12 PM