Why not JDI?

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tuppence

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Simplest solution. John is abusing JB, accidentally kills her, writes the ransom note planning to get rid of the body. He places it where he knows Patsy will find it first. She screws up his plan by insisting on calling the police even though the note says not to. At some point during the morning he realizes there is no way he's ever going to get the body out of there now that the police are involved and decides to "find it".

I know handwriting experts said he didn't write the note but I think that's bunk - look at how many were sure John Karr wrote it.

In this case only one person knows what happened - easiest way to keep a secret. Patsy naturally follows John's advice/lead (and that of his lawyers) on everything to do with the case assuming he knows best
 
I know handwriting experts said he didn't write the note but I think that's bunk - look at how many were sure John Karr wrote it.


The Karr fiasco, for sure, was not good for handwriting analysis.

Personally, though, I see Patsy as more the type to write that RN and come up with the staging than stoic John.
 
I don't know anything about handwriting analysis or its veracity. But I firmly believe that if JR had written the note, it would have been a helluva lot shorter.

Otherwise, your JDI scenario does have the benefit of simplicity.
 
I really believe that John knew nothing about the murder until he found her around 10:00 (like he told his son). What I don't know is why he didn't immediately tell the police. I wonder if he suspected Patsy? Or maybe Burke? But I do not believe Burke had anything to do with the murder.
 
Patsy wrote the note. It's too close to her style and her handwriting. It's too much of a coincidence that so many of her hallmarks exist in a long, phony ransom note and she was in the house. That's not to say that John may not have thrown out a few ideas while Patsy was writing it, but if John wrote the note I don't doubt he would've kept it short and sweet. Men tend not to be as effusive letter writers and I think John had more real world experience to realize that a ransom note is not a letter and would've known that the more he wrote the more incriminating it was. I think John was doing something else while Patsy wrote the note.
 
I don't know. There are men who tend to be verbose too. I think it's stereotyping to assume the man was the "smart" one and would be brief and the woman silly/verbose.

I think JDI is the simplest scenario that fits the evidence and the psychology of the crime.

edited to add: It's even possible that as he was trying to disguise himself he subconsciously gravitated toward phrases/writing style that someone close to him had - that he was familiar with.
 
luvbeaches said:
I really believe that John knew nothing about the murder until he found her around 10:00 (like he told his son). What I don't know is why he didn't immediately tell the police. I wonder if he suspected Patsy? Or maybe Burke? But I do not believe Burke had anything to do with the murder.
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Where does it say he told Burke this?? TIA
 
I gotta admit it's a "simple and sweet" scenario.

However, two questions:

1. How did Patsy's fibers end up in so much crime specific stuff if she had nothing to do with it?

2. Wasn't it John who said call the police?

This theory would also require Patsy never knew John was missing from bed after they went to bed together on the 25th.
 
s_finch said:
Where does it say he told Burke this?? TIA
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He told JAR, not Burke....

"Long <Stewart Long, Melinda Ramsey's boyfriend> said that John Ramsey climbed into the van and told them <Melinda, Stewart, and JAR> that JonBenet 'was with Beth now'. The father and son broke down in tears as John Ramsey described how he has discovered the body around eleven o'clock that morning."

page 156, JonBenet Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas
 
SleuthingSleuth said:
I gotta admit it's a "simple and sweet" scenario.

However, two questions:

1. How did Patsy's fibers end up in so much crime specific stuff if she had nothing to do with it?

2. Wasn't it John who said call the police?

This theory would also require Patsy never knew John was missing from bed after they went to bed together on the 25th.
Click to expand...

Do we know JR said call the police? Is there a non-Ramsey source for this?

It's a possible scenario, but as SS says, you've got to account for PR's fibers.
 
Chrishope said:
Do we know JR said call the police? Is there a non-Ramsey source for this?
Click to expand...
Only PR and JR were there - it is not possible for a non-Ramsey source to exist.
 
sandraladeda said:
Only PR and JR were there - it is not possible for a non-Ramsey source to exist.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was getting at - we only have their word for how events played out. Just like we only have their word the suticase wasn't under the window until that night, or JR's claim that things were stacked up in front of the door to the room where IDI folks thing the POE was.
 
Chrishope said:
That's exactly what I was getting at - we only have their word for how events played out. Just like we only have their word the suticase wasn't under the window until that night, or JR's claim that things were stacked up in front of the door to the room where IDI folks thing the POE was.
Click to expand...
Oh, sorry....blonde moment.....:blushing:
 
s_finch said:
Where does it say he told Burke this?? TIA
Click to expand...

He told his older son from his first marriage (sorry, I should have specified which son, but I didn't mean Burke). Sandraladeda found the source. Also, when this came out, there was much discussion that John meant he found the body at one, but telling his son the time in relation to the time zone he was in...or something like that (which I think is a nutty notion).
 
I think JDI is the simplest scenario that fits the evidence and the psychology of the crime.
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The evidence is that Patsy wrote the note and Patsy's fibers were found in the paint tray and intertwined in the garrote, as well as it being Patsy's art supplies. In terms of psychology the crime fits more with a female closely related to the victim. I don't disregard John in terms of the cover-up and possibly sexual abuse of JonBenet prior to the murder, but based on the evidence this was Patsy's crime, IMO.
 
I think JDI and Patsy helped cover for him.
 
I still think that JR abused JBR that evening. Then, JBR told PR when PR came into her after she had wet the bed and PR turned on JBR rather than JR. I think PR somehow in her twisted mind may have blamed JBR for the abuse. Just MHO. I would like to know if anything has come out about how PR treated JBR at these pageants that she was involved in. Were there any signs of verbal abuse, etc? I would also like to know more about the relationship between PR and JR over the years after JBR's death. How did they interact with each other?
 
sandraladeda said:
Oh, sorry....blonde moment.....:blushing:
Click to expand...

No, no blonde moment :) I just worded it like I was really asking a question, but I just meant for the reply to make people think exactly what you said - it was only the ramseys in the house. We have no other source for what happened.
 
K. Taylor said:
The evidence is that Patsy wrote the note and Patsy's fibers were found in the paint tray and intertwined in the garrote, as well as it being Patsy's art supplies. In terms of psychology the crime fits more with a female closely related to the victim. I don't disregard John in terms of the cover-up and possibly sexual abuse of JonBenet prior to the murder, but based on the evidence this was Patsy's crime, IMO.
Click to expand...


Patsy's fibers would naturally be all over Jonbenet - I'm sure she was hugging/holding Jonbenet a lot that day, not to mention dressing her etc.
Just because it was Patsy's art supplies doesn't mean anything. John had easy access. I don't think using a "garrote" even as staging indicates a female psychology.

A cover up by Patsy is unnecessarily complicated and the idea that she was covering up abuse belies the apparent long term close relationship between atsy and John post the incident.

The easiest way to keep a secret is if only one person knows it. The only way the sex crime fits with the ransom note is if the person thought they could get rid of the body. John wrote the note in a way that he thought Patsy would protest against calling the police so he would have a day to get rid of the body. he would probably have suggested that Patsy take Burke over somewhere safe while he dealt with the kidnappers.
 
Even if you think the "garrote" was staging you could argue that John had strangled her with some other ligature the night before and added the garrote in the morning after he realized he would have to "find" the body. He needed something that looked really strange to point away from him. Alternatively he might have done it the night before but then decided to go with the ransome scenario instead. I also think this scenario fits in better with there being no lights on in the house (only John being involved).
 
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