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  1. #1
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    A Possible Scenario?

    Taking a shot at it...

    What if...the neck injuries occurred first? What if you get so angry at your child, you're exhausted, you just want to sleep, and she just won't go to bed? I know from my own experience that when my children are overly exhausted, overly stimulated by the holidays, excited about a trip or vacation, etc, that they do not sleep well at all.

    So the Ramsey's are exhausted also. And they have a quick trip the next day, more holiday hustle and bustle with John's kids, quick trip home again, pick up their bags, then it's off on a Disney cruise. That's a lot going on, in addition to the normal holiday preparation and celebration, hosting a party, etc. So Christmas Day is over and they just want to SLEEP.

    But the kids are wired. They want to play. They want attention. Burke finally goes to bed, but JonBenet can't settle down. She's too young to understand that Mom and Dad need to sleep. She keeps coming in to their room, tells them she's hungry, whatever. Patsy is getting angry and takes JB downstairs, gives her some pineapple, all the while harping on her to go to bed already! But JB comes in again, perhaps just as Patsy is dozing off, telling her that she's wet her pants.

    Now, those of you with small children can relate to being soooo tired that suddenly your children, whom you love dearly more than anything, can become the enemy, especially when they are depriving you of sleep. When my twins were babies, I was convinced that sleep deprivation should be a form of torture (and have since found out it actually is!) because it took me to a level where I did not recognize myself. I. Just. Wanted. To. Sleep. Thankfully I never hurt my children during this time, but I have to admit I could see how extreme and extended sleep deprivation could make a sane person act insane.

    So what if Patsy had reached that level? She just wanted to sleep. She had so much to do, so much to think about. So many people to pack for and buy for and cook for, so many things to plan. She'd made it through Christmas Day and now she just wanted to sleep. Maybe she even fell asleep on her bed, fully clothed. Maybe she hadn't even made it to bed yet, but wanted nothing more than to drift off to sleep.

    So like I said, JB wakes her mother up *again* or wanders out of her room *again* and Patsy just loses it. Grabs JB by the neckline of the shirt she was wearing and twists as hard as she can--out of sheer anger--not intentionally trying to hurt her. Why won't you let me sleep?? she hisses. She shakes JB and JB tries to pull away and whacks her head hard. Patsy realizes that JB has hit her head hard and knows she should seek medical attention, but how does she explain the marks on JB's neck from her shirt? This would not look good--the charges of child abuse flash through her mind quickly.

    She wakes John up and tells him what has happened. They try to keep JB awake, fearing a concussion; never let the person go to sleep lest they fall into a coma. They walk her, they change her, they wash her off, maybe bathe her? Maybe it's at this point they feed her the pineapple--it's soft and sweet and they need to keep her awake. The marks on her neck are getting worse. They think how can they call 911 or take her to the ER? Child abuse charges would not look good for Patsy's social standing nor John's future political ambitions.

    After a while, it's no use. JonBenet dies, maybe even in her mother's arms. Patsy cries, of course. So does John. They are truly devestated. They are in shock. What on earth can they do? They know they shouldn't have waited to get JB help for her head injury. But there's nothing they can do now.

    Here is where they must choose which route to take. Do they call 911 and explain the whole thing? Patsy is terrified--she KNOWS she will be arrested for child abuse, endangerment, neglect, probably manslaughter or possible first degree murder since she did nothing to save JB's life.

    John is terrified as well--what is going to happen to his family? What is going to happen to Burke with his mother possibly in jail? How is this going to look to all their friends?

    Of course, they do not call 911 at that point. They choose the "safest" route—and decide to blame it on someone else.

    Well, obviously they can’t leave JB in her bed, where they last saw her. Someone had to have taken her, preferably out of the house entirely. So they take her to the basement—for now. Just in case Burke wakes up. Now, the next thing to do is hide the marks made by her shirt. How? Simple—make new marks. John’s mind is in disaster recovery mode. He’s not thinking straight—how can he be? But he’s barking out orders to Patsy, who has shut down and is in shock, but she follows the orders. She has no choice—she will lose her husband and son and friends if she doesn’t do this, so she does it. She fashions a garrote around JB’s neck. Perhaps John’s read about this type of thing. As it’s being done, they are thinking ahead--why would someone do this to a little girl? Ah, pedophile. Sex pervert. Whatever. This person has to be extremely evil to do something like this. Make it look evil.

    Afterward, Patsy completely breaks down. She holds her daughter, she prays over her, she sobs her apologies and finally says her good-byes.

    Now, they must write a ransom note. It can’t be too simple, and it must point outside of the home. John dictates as Patsy writes.

    Next, John must get JB out of the house. Daybreak is near, and he must get back in time to “wake up” at 5:30. He goes upstairs and looks out the window, but perhaps sees someone awake. Perhaps there are lights on across the street; people are awake and might notice his car leaving. It was a weekday, perhaps people were already getting ready for work. He’s afraid he will be noticed. He’s trapped—there is NO way to get her body out of the house. He lays her in the wine cellar and goes upstairs to shower.

    Patsy, meanwhile, is carefully applying her make-up—she has been crying very hard and her eyes are swollen.

    At the appropriate time (and they talk quietly about this) they decide to start the show. And the rest is history. Literally.
    He's guilty. Get over it.

  2. #2
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    Well, since you've asked for opinions on your theory-

    I think if it's purely accidental, we could also assume that neiher of the Rs were molesting JBR. Niether was involved in some paedophile ring. IOW, they are normal people. If so, I think the normal reaction would be to call 911 and try to save JBR.

    I think staging a murder, after an accident like that, is unlikely. Staging a perverted sex murder is highly highly unlikely, IMO.

    But, what do I know?

  3. #3
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    IrishMist is offline You can't control the wind - but you can adjust your sails
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    Betsy, if the R's did it, I think this is the most plausible theory I've read.

    It's concise, understandable, well thought out and well written.

    Can you do an IDI one now?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrishope
    Well, since you've asked for opinions on your theory-

    I think if it's purely accidental, we could also assume that neiher of the Rs were molesting JBR. Niether was involved in some paedophile ring. IOW, they are normal people. If so, I think the normal reaction would be to call 911 and try to save JBR.

    I think staging a murder, after an accident like that, is unlikely. Staging a perverted sex murder is highly highly unlikely, IMO.

    But, what do I know?
    But IF they staged it, then they HAD to make it look as evil as possible. First, they had to hide the neck marks from the shirt, so how would they do that? Use something else to make new marks. But then they would think "Why would someone come in our home, kidnap our daugher (remember, at that point it was still a kidnapping scenario), and strangle and kill her and never collect the money?" Because this someone was a vile human being. The worst thing possible. A murdering pedophile.

    They still intended on having the body found elsewhere. Far away from their home with a ligature around her neck and a paintbrush inside her--things that are so far from the "norm" in their social circle that people would NEVER even consider them doing it.
    He's guilty. Get over it.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishMist
    Betsy, if the R's did it, I think this is the most plausible theory I've read.

    It's concise, understandable, well thought out and well written.

    Can you do an IDI one now?
    Thanks, Irish Mist. I consider that a great compliment, as I know you've followed this case for many years.

    I don't think I'm going to try an IDI theory, though! If it was an intruder, that's one mind I don't wish to try to get inside.
    He's guilty. Get over it.

  6. #6
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    Not to poo-poo over your whole scenario, because I think its well thought out.

    The only parts of it I don't agree with is that if a parent were so sleep deprived that they accidentally killed their own child in this manner, I doubt they'd be able to have the mental clarity to stage a murder scene (and stage it so that no one is ever caught for 10 years).

    Also I doubt if a parent killed her accidentally, that they'd have the stomach to stage it in such a horrific way. And then there's the fact that if they were caught it would be more understandable to kill someone by wrath than to kill them by torture, strangulation, and sexual assault.

    Not that its ever understandable to kill a child but some things are worse than others, even in such an unspeakable act as killing a little child

    I think whoever killed JBR, is a monster and intended to kill her, either with great pain and suffering for their own gratification or to shut her up from past gratification they had used her for.
    I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for pretending to be someone I'm not.

  7. #7
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    Well thought out theory. One additional thought: At the very least there would have been manslaughter charges to follow if they had called for help. I am sure they knew that.

    "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdieBoo
    Not to poo-poo over your whole scenario, because I think its well thought out.

    The only parts of it I don't agree with is that if a parent were so sleep deprived that they accidentally killed their own child in this manner, I doubt they'd be able to have the mental clarity to stage a murder scene (and stage it so that no one is ever caught for 10 years).

    Also I doubt if a parent killed her accidentally, that they'd have the stomach to stage it in such a horrific way. And then there's the fact that if they were caught it would be more understandable to kill someone by wrath than to kill them by torture, strangulation, and sexual assault.

    Not that its ever understandable to kill a child but some things are worse than others, even in such an unspeakable act as killing a little child

    I think whoever killed JBR, is a monster and intended to kill her, either with great pain and suffering for their own gratification or to shut her up from past gratification they had used her for.
    Sorry but I don't see the evidence to support that. The killer you describe typically does not leave ransom notes, even bogus ones, and takes the child away the home to do his dirty business. Rape and sodomy or oral sex are almost always in the mix...none of the three here.

    I also don't think you can predict what any one individual might do when backed up against the wall. Desperate people do desperate things. Under normal conditions I agree that most parents would not do what was done here, but anyone in that situation would have to be in an altered reality where fear took over common sense. Maybe the fear and horror of going to jail and being publicly exposed as a woman who killed her child was so great that the staging seemed like the lesser of the evils.

    "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betsy
    Thanks, Irish Mist. I consider that a great compliment, as I know you've followed this case for many years.

    I don't think I'm going to try an IDI theory, though! If it was an intruder, that's one mind I don't wish to try to get inside.
    Who is IDI?

    "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
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  10. #10
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    IDI = Intruder Did It........nice to see you back Goodie...I havent posted with you before but I do follow the Darlie threads....hope all is going well for you


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrishope
    Well, since you've asked for opinions on your theory-

    I think if it's purely accidental, we could also assume that neiher of the Rs were molesting JBR. Niether was involved in some paedophile ring. IOW, they are normal people. If so, I think the normal reaction would be to call 911 and try to save JBR.

    I think staging a murder, after an accident like that, is unlikely. Staging a perverted sex murder is highly highly unlikely, IMO.

    But, what do I know?
    Chrishope:I think it was very logical for the Ramseys to stage a sex murder, for the sexual predator staging was done with the intention of pointing away from the parents as the perps.
    In addition, the paintbrush injury was probably inflicted to hide signs of chronic abuse.

    Betsy: your RDI theory is very convincing (first post on this thread).
    But what complicates things is that in all probability JB had been the victim of chronic sexual abuse, so maybe there was a far more sinister reason for Patsy's rage than mere stress and fatigue ...

  12. #12
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    Nah. John molested JBR and Patsy chose to help cover. She is all over the board with lies.

    People think John was a good father and would never touch his daughter. Well , coming from a family of my sisters being molested by a father that had affairs and did sleep with my mom, I can easily see JR in this roll. And as far as Patsy covering, my mother felt sorry for my father when she confronted him and went on to allow the incest to continue. She acted like she would kill him and yet nothing ever happened. He had told her he would kill himself if the secret ever got out. So she chose to keep the secret. And she chose to allow it to go on pretending she had no idea.
    Patsy was not loyal to Jon Benet like she was to John Ramsey. She died thinking she had not sinned. But she made the biggest sin. She allowed and covered for molestation.

  13. #13
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    That blow to the head would have knocked her out totally. No way she would have remained conscious after that. If it was an accidental blow to the head, any pineapple feeding would have had to have come first. She wouldn't have been conscious for any of the staging.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goody
    Sorry but I don't see the evidence to support that. The killer you describe typically does not leave ransom notes, even bogus ones, and takes the child away the home to do his dirty business. Rape and sodomy or oral sex are almost always in the mix...none of the three here.

    I also don't think you can predict what any one individual might do when backed up against the wall. Desperate people do desperate things. Under normal conditions I agree that most parents would not do what was done here, but anyone in that situation would have to be in an altered reality where fear took over common sense. Maybe the fear and horror of going to jail and being publicly exposed as a woman who killed her child was so great that the staging seemed like the lesser of the evils.
    Right. Unless the murderer was a parent. I think the paintbrush in the vagina qualifies as either object rape or sodomy. I am leaning more and more towards the theory that John or Patsy did it, and for a reason of their own choosing, not as an accident.

    Whoever does something like this to a child, IS a monster, no matter what their motives. I don't care how hard they were backed against a wall.
    I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for pretending to be someone I'm not.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by PagingDrDetect
    That blow to the head would have knocked her out totally. No way she would have remained conscious after that. If it was an accidental blow to the head, any pineapple feeding would have had to have come first. She wouldn't have been conscious for any of the staging.
    Do we know this for certain? I'm not trying to challenge you, but I've not heard that with certainty. But if that's true, maybe the pineapple was given earlier, as I stated, as a snack by Patsy, who (in my scenario) was definitely not happy that JB kept getting up. We know she ate the pineapple when they got home, so that fact doesn't really matter as to when exactly--although I feel it's highly unlikely that an intruder gave it to her.

    And I really don't think she was conscious for ANY of the staging either. I think she was already gone.
    He's guilty. Get over it.

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