998 users online (123 members and 875 guests)  


The Killing Season - Websleuths

Websleuths News


Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    75

    Prozac, John, and Another Possible Scenario

    I read somewhere that Patsy and John were no longer intimate after she initially became ill. Could be, that during that time, John entertained himself with porn, and soon found himself drawn into the world of child pornagraphy. I understand that he was very protective of his laptop computer and took it with him everywhere.

    I also read somewhere that John was taking Prozac for depression. A relative of mine was taking Prozac for depression and found himself walking across four lanes of expressway traffic one night because he believed he was invinceable. Needless to say, the doctor immediately changed his medication. I remember John saying that he took something to help him sleep Christmas night. The combination of drugs in his system could have had an adverse reaction, causing him to act out his sexual fantasies. John could have taken JonBenet to the basement, dressed her in erotic gear to take pictures, movies, whatever, when Patsy came downstairs to find out why he hadn't yet come to bed. He may have come up from the basement to answer Patsy, leaving his daughter unattended.

    JonBenet may have awoken from her "drugged pineapple nap", and struggled to free herself, not realizing that she was tightening the garrote around her neck with every move she made. When John returned to release his daughter, he would have found she had suffocated, and in a panic, staged
    the crime scene.

    John could have told Patsy that he suspected Burke accidentally killed JonBenet and the two of them contrived the kidnapper story to protect him.

    Who knows what really happened that night.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,554
    Quote Originally Posted by calicocat
    I read somewhere that Patsy and John were no longer intimate after she initially became ill. Could be, that during that time, John entertained himself with porn, and soon found himself drawn into the world of child pornagraphy. I understand that he was very protective of his laptop computer and took it with him everywhere.

    I also read somewhere that John was taking Prozac for depression. A relative of mine was taking Prozac for depression and found himself walking across four lanes of expressway traffic one night because he believed he was invinceable. Needless to say, the doctor immediately changed his medication. I remember John saying that he took something to help him sleep Christmas night. The combination of drugs in his system could have had an adverse reaction, causing him to act out his sexual fantasies. John could have taken JonBenet to the basement, dressed her in erotic gear to take pictures, movies, whatever, when Patsy came downstairs to find out why he hadn't yet come to bed. He may have come up from the basement to answer Patsy, leaving his daughter unattended.

    JonBenet may have awoken from her "drugged pineapple nap", and struggled to free herself, not realizing that she was tightening the garrote around her neck with every move she made. When John returned to release his daughter, he would have found she had suffocated, and in a panic, staged
    the crime scene.

    John could have told Patsy that he suspected Burke accidentally killed JonBenet and the two of them contrived the kidnapper story to protect him.

    Who knows what really happened that night.
    Sounds like your relative had a manic reaction to the prozac.Does he have bipolar disorder?Sometimes SSRI's can do that do someone with bpd,esp.when they first start on them(or a different one).
    I don't know about the reaction bet. prozac and melatonin.Melatonin is a sleep hormone,which I'm guessing would put someone in a deeper sleep,prozac or not.
    If JR had been taking prozac for awhile,and he doesn't have bpd,I would think it's unlikely he would have had some sort of odd reaction to the two together.After all,melatonin is produced naturally in humans anyway.
    I think alcohol would be a more significant factor with the prozac.
    I'm not a Dr. though.Maybe someone here would know more.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    3,386
    If I remember right, John took Paxil that night. We don't know if he drank alcohol, or how much.

    Paxil had some warnings out a few years ago. A friend of mine was on it, and when she heard about the warnings she had her Dr. change the Paxil to something else.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Palm Springs
    Posts
    19,098
    I'm not a doctor, but I've taken Melatonin every night for years and years. (In the past, I have taken it concurrently with antidepressants and noticed no difference in effect.)

    I realize different people react differently to the same drug, but I have a hard time imagining melatonin keeping you from waking up if there were strange noises in the house. (That was JR's explanation for not hearing his daughter's kidnapping.)

    We had a thread on the subject here some years ago and NO one who had taken melatonin believed JR's explanation. (Not a scientific study, but more than just my personal experience.)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    1,812
    Calicocat---

    You know, you're theory is soooo much more plausible to me than Patsy being the perp. It really is. I don't know why--it's not that I don't think mothers can kill their kids, because I know they can and do.

    To me, Patsy NEEDED JonBenet. I think Patsy lived her life THROUGH JonBenet. I think she definitely loved her bunches, but with Patsy being so into the superficial outside appearances, what better way to portray that than a beautiful, perfect little beauty queen daughter? (In Patsy's eyes, certainly not mine.)

    Now, I have heard that the sleep aid he was taking was Melatonin, and I don't believe that could make one do such things. Isn't Melatonin natural? I think it's highly plausible that maybe he was on something else and didn't want to divulge that? Who knows? Nobody will EVER really know, sadly.

    ETA: I don't think Melatonin would be a contributing factor to not waking up when strange noises are occurring at night around you, HOWEVER, I do think it just depends on the person. Some people are VERY heavy sleepers. Just tonight, my son fell asleep on the couch. I woke him up to go to his bedroom, but it took a good 3 minutes of me saying his name numerous times 3 inches away from his face, increasingly louder, AND picking up his arm and waving it around up & down, back & forth. The kid is a rock. So, I know some can sleep through just about anything with absolutely nothing in their system.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Palm Springs
    Posts
    19,098
    julianne, you are right that the depth of sleep varies greatly among people.

    But if JR were just a heavy sleeper, I suspect he would have said so. It would have made a better excuse.

    (BTW, I think you are also right that PR loved her daughter. IF PDI, then it started as some sort of accident.)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by calicocat
    I read somewhere that Patsy and John were no longer intimate after she initially became ill. Could be, that during that time, John entertained himself with porn, and soon found himself drawn into the world of child pornagraphy. I understand that he was very protective of his laptop computer and took it with him everywhere.

    I also read somewhere that John was taking Prozac for depression. A relative of mine was taking Prozac for depression and found himself walking across four lanes of expressway traffic one night because he believed he was invinceable. Needless to say, the doctor immediately changed his medication. I remember John saying that he took something to help him sleep Christmas night. The combination of drugs in his system could have had an adverse reaction, causing him to act out his sexual fantasies. John could have taken JonBenet to the basement, dressed her in erotic gear to take pictures, movies, whatever, when Patsy came downstairs to find out why he hadn't yet come to bed. He may have come up from the basement to answer Patsy, leaving his daughter unattended.

    JonBenet may have awoken from her "drugged pineapple nap", and struggled to free herself, not realizing that she was tightening the garrote around her neck with every move she made. When John returned to release his daughter, he would have found she had suffocated, and in a panic, staged
    the crime scene.

    John could have told Patsy that he suspected Burke accidentally killed JonBenet and the two of them contrived the kidnapper story to protect him.

    Who knows what really happened that night.
    let me help you with this one--prozac actually lowers the sex drive and men have a difficult time getting and maintaining an erection.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ceti Alpha V
    Posts
    12,914
    "You know, you're theory is soooo much more plausible to me than Patsy being the perp. It really is. I don't know why"

    Maybe it's because you think men are naturally more apt to be monsters than women?

    "it's not that I don't think mothers can kill their kids, because I know they can and do."

    Glad we got THAT out of the way!

    "To me, Patsy NEEDED JonBenet. I think Patsy lived her life THROUGH JonBenet. I think she definitely loved her bunches, but with Patsy being so into the superficial outside appearances, what better way to portray that than a beautiful, perfect little beauty queen daughter? (In Patsy's eyes, certainly not mine.)"

    That still could be a double-edged sword, julianne.

    I can hear you now: "watchoo talkin' 'bout, Super?" LOL

    Here's what I'm talkin' 'bout:

    Carole Lieberman, psychiatrist: "Patsy was torn between two conflicting desires. She wanted JonBenet to be Miss America one day, but she also wanted to be the most beautiful woman in her own house."

    Reminds me of "Snow White." "Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who's the fairest one of all?"

    And don't we remember what the Queen did when she found out!

    Jamie Turndorf, psychotherapist: "I've seen this with women who have been molested themselves. They have a subconscious compulsion to replay the trauma until it is resolved."

    Wendy Maltz, therapist: "She was living her sexual fantasies through her six-year-old."

    I assume the fantasies Maltz is referring to means her desire to be known for her beauty. Why else would she have been a contestant?

    Mind you, I'm just speaking hypothetically. JSB!
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    749
    [QUOTE=SuperDave]"You know, you're theory is soooo much more plausible to me than Patsy being the perp. It really is. I don't know why"

    Maybe it's because you think men are naturally more apt to be monsters than women?

    "it's not that I don't think mothers can kill their kids, because I know they can and do."

    Glad we got THAT out of the way!

    "To me, Patsy NEEDED JonBenet. I think Patsy lived her life THROUGH JonBenet. I think she definitely loved her bunches, but with Patsy being so into the superficial outside appearances, what better way to portray that than a beautiful, perfect little beauty queen daughter? (In Patsy's eyes, certainly not mine.)"

    That still could be a double-edged sword, julianne.

    I can hear you now: "watchoo talkin' 'bout, Super?" LOL

    Here's what I'm talkin' 'bout:

    Carole Lieberman, psychiatrist: "Patsy was torn between two conflicting desires. She wanted JonBenet to be Miss America one day, but she also wanted to be the most beautiful woman in her own house."

    Reminds me of "Snow White." "Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who's the fairest one of all?"

    And don't we remember what the Queen did when she found out!

    Jamie Turndorf, psychotherapist: "I've seen this with women who have been molested themselves. They have a subconscious compulsion to replay the trauma until it is resolved."

    i believe in psychology, what you're referring to is called the "completion compulsion." for example, if a girl's father leaves her at a young age, she will subconsciously choose men who will abandon her. it's fascinating.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    75
    Okay... so if "women who have been molested themselves have a subconscious compulsion to replay the trauma until it is resolved," that would explain why JonBenet was murdered.

    Suppose it was JonBenet's grandfather that was molesting her. There was DNA evidence found at the murder scene that did not belong to a "Ramsey" male, and, unknown semen. I have to read back over where Mr. Paugh was Christmas night.

    Maybe Patsy murdered JonBenet so her own father couldn't continue his abuse. She may have believed that she was going to die from her cancer, and couldn't bear to leave JonBenet behind. The ransom note was signed "Victory." She would have won. She put an end to it. And, I can only imagine that S.B.T.C. would have stood for Saved by the Cross, for JonBenet surely went to heaven, poor little girl.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    US
    Posts
    1,607
    Quote Originally Posted by calicocat
    I understand that he was very protective of his laptop computer and took it with him everywhere.
    Do you have a source for that statement? Thanks.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    1,812
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave
    "You know, you're theory is soooo much more plausible to me than Patsy being the perp. It really is. I don't know why"

    Maybe it's because you think men are naturally more apt to be monsters than women?

    "it's not that I don't think mothers can kill their kids, because I know they can and do."

    Glad we got THAT out of the way!

    "To me, Patsy NEEDED JonBenet. I think Patsy lived her life THROUGH JonBenet. I think she definitely loved her bunches, but with Patsy being so into the superficial outside appearances, what better way to portray that than a beautiful, perfect little beauty queen daughter? (In Patsy's eyes, certainly not mine.)"

    That still could be a double-edged sword, julianne.
    No, SuperDave, it's not because "I believe that men are naturally more apt to be monsters than women", as you said. As you can see, I followed that sentence with: "it's not that I don't think mothers can kill their kids, because I know they can and do."

    That's all I'm wanting or willing to say on THAT subject. Sorry...I don't goad that easily.

    "That still could be a double-edged sword, julianne"

    Gee...ya think?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    1,812
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave
    "
    Wendy Maltz, therapist: "She was living her sexual fantasies through her six-year-old."

    I assume the fantasies Maltz is referring to means her desire to be known for her beauty. Why else would she have been a contestant?
    Well, from her above quote, I wouldn't assume that Maltz was referring to beauty. I would assume that she was referring to sexual fantasies, which is why she used that term. I think if she was referring to beauty, then she would have said beauty. Can't interpret what isn't even faintly there. Those words are on opposite ends of the spectrum from each other. Can't imagine an educated, authored therapist confusing such mundane verbage. To wit, I say...How in the heck could she possibly know what Patsy's sexual fantasies are! (Note: It's a statement, not a question.)

    It's a shame she make a public statement such as that, because although she may have a lot of very interesting and intriguing things to conversate about, she undoubtedly already closes off a good number of RDI & IDI listening ears by choosing to make such a ridiculous statement.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ceti Alpha V
    Posts
    12,914
    "i believe in psychology, what you're referring to is called the "completion compulsion." for example, if a girl's father leaves her at a young age, she will subconsciously choose men who will abandon her. it's fascinating."

    I think her exact words were:

    repetition compulsion.

    "That's all I'm wanting or willing to say on THAT subject. Sorry...I don't goad that easily."

    Good, because I wasn't trying!

    "Well, from her above quote, I wouldn't assume that Maltz was referring to beauty. I would assume that she was referring to sexual fantasies, which is why she used that term. I think if she was referring to beauty, then she would have said beauty."

    I meant that her fantasy involved being the object of desire to many, julianne. You were right to point out my slip-up.

    "To wit, I say...How in the heck could she possibly know what Patsy's sexual fantasies are! (Note: It's a statement, not a question.)"

    Well, that's a good question. You'd have to know the context in which she made that statement. A photo was brought to her attention (and to the attention of the other shrinks I mentioned) that was 20 years old at the time.

    Remember that pageant outfit JB wore with the white leotard and gold trim with all of the feathers on it? Well, the picture was of Patsy as a young woman wearing a pageant outfit that was almost indentical.

    That's what she was talking about.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by calicocat
    Okay... so if "women who have been molested themselves have a subconscious compulsion to replay the trauma until it is resolved," that would explain why JonBenet was murdered.

    Suppose it was JonBenet's grandfather that was molesting her. There was DNA evidence found at the murder scene that did not belong to a "Ramsey" male, and, unknown semen. I have to read back over where Mr. Paugh was Christmas night.

    Maybe Patsy murdered JonBenet so her own father couldn't continue his abuse. She may have believed that she was going to die from her cancer, and couldn't bear to leave JonBenet behind. The ransom note was signed "Victory." She would have won. She put an end to it. And, I can only imagine that S.B.T.C. would have stood for Saved by the Cross, for JonBenet surely went to heaven, poor little girl.
    hey,
    didn't the grandfather live in an apt in boulder?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Care for a little Prozac in your soup?
    By Taximom in forum Crimes in the News
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-24-2007, 12:03 PM
  2. You may be taking antidepressants (PROZAC) and NOT know it.
    By blueclouds in forum Bizarre and Off-Beat News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-10-2004, 12:31 AM