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  1. #16

    data

    [QUOTE=Roy Harrold]

    Bonacci has not provided enough information about these people to be of any use in tracking them down, arrest them and convicting them. Despite the fact that he allegedly lived with these people, traveled around the US with these people. In all that time he never recorded a license plate number, or a date & time they boarded a commercial plane, or anything else that could be used to obtain verifiable data about them.

    That is why I urge people to actually READ The Franklin Cover-Up, because it makes it very clear that not only was data given, then followed up on, but some people (i.e. Investigator Gary Cardori, i.e. Troy Boner) DIED as a result of getting too close to the truth and the perpetrators. And, in fact, we do not know WHAT kind of information Paul gave because a great deal of data was HELD BACK from publication, for obvious reasons. In that some of us have actually SEEN some of that data, Roy, it seems like a matter of experience over opinion, which of course you are perfectly welcome to have and express. But it's important not to get distracted too much by trying to bash and discredit Paul Bonacci who cannot obviously defend himself. And, this is about Johnny Gosch I believe, and while Paul's information was certainly PART of the picture, it was by no means ALL of it.

  2. #17
    [QUOTE=Roy Harrold]

    No records of an Emilio D'Argentino, either.

    But, verifiable information on the many places he used as "drop off" points and "holding" houses.

  3. #18

    Why do this?

    Just in case it comes up, I want to make it clear that I am not working for either Senator DeCamp nor Noreen Gosch, though I would welcome the opportunity to help, especially Noreen, since I was involved in this before the Franklin Cover-Up book was released. I believe it's important to read the Franklin book because that way people have made up their minds based on the information therein. By way of curiousity: How many have read it? Roy? If you have, it will make it easier to reference certain points.

    In any case, my interest in all of this is as a former P.I. who worked a number of years pro bono on behalf of exploited. missing or ritually abused children and their families, and Johnny's case pointed to specific elements in a number of similar cases.

  4. #19
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    Sep 2006
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    [QUOTE=godzorphan]
    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Harrold

    No records of an Emilio D'Argentino, either.

    But, verifiable information on the many places he used as "drop off" points and "holding" houses.
    This is by no means meant to sound like an attack or anything, but where can I find the verifiable information and how was it verified? :-)

  5. #20
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    Godzorphan -

    First thank you for all of your insight to this important matter.

    Question for you...I believe you think that Johnny is still alive and out there somewhere. What do you think he is doing? I don't see how he could be working for instance, without a SS number and/or birth certificate. Seems like someone would eventually spill the beans (a girlfriend, friend, etc.) as secretes are very difficult to keep. I mean things like learning how to drive, etc., he missed all of that and I don't see how he could be functioning.

    Doesn't it seem like it would be difficult for him not to have contacted his dad, brother or his sister??

    Would appreciate your thoughts on this..

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by loganone
    This is by no means meant to sound like an attack or anything, but where can I find the verifiable information and how was it verified? :-)
    I drove to the locations myself and verified that these places that were given in Bonacci's statements were exactly where he said they were, even though they were states apart.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Insguru
    Godzorphan -

    First thank you for all of your insight to this important matter.

    Question for you...I believe you think that Johnny is still alive and out there somewhere. What do you think he is doing? I don't see how he could be working for instance, without a SS number and/or birth certificate. Seems like someone would eventually spill the beans (a girlfriend, friend, etc.) as secretes are very difficult to keep. I mean things like learning how to drive, etc., he missed all of that and I don't see how he could be functioning.

    Doesn't it seem like it would be difficult for him not to have contacted his dad, brother or his sister??

    Would appreciate your thoughts on this..
    I can only speculate based on my experiences with victims of child predators over a period of years. From what I understand, if he is still alive (and I believe he is, unlike the fear I have for Jacob Wetterling) he is still working for the group. When kids are taken and raised in that business, they eventually outlive their usefulness as a "trick" and become a "mule" - the one who procures kids. I imagine he does not work a normal job; according to Noreen, he can never leave them. And according to her website, he DID visit her in the middle of the night a few years back. I have no reason to doubt her story. It would make sense, that, as predators often do (especially in organized pedo rings) they first break in the kid, get them "working" then eventually force them to be the perpetrator. The guilt is so extreme - realizing they are now doing to other kids what was done to them - they wouldn't dream of going home. Only one child to my knowlege was able to do that, and that was Steven Stayner, who was kidnapped as a little boy and escaped as a young teen - only after he realized his perpetrator was going to take another boy. And in fact, he almost did not run because he had been threatened so badly by his perpetrator/kidnapper.

    One of the things we need to understand is when a child is violated at such a young age, they stay very much frozen in time. If at 13 they are told, "We'll kill your parents if you run or talk", then they believe them. And if they are 35, the fear of that never leaves. I am not at all surprised if at some point Johnny just "gave up" the idea of going home, probably thinking it was too late, or if they knew what he now was doing, they would hate him or jail him. (Which in fact would probably be the case.) Again, speculation based on what I DO know. And also, from what I understand, this group moves the kids around on a constant basis from state to state and into Mexico when necessary. They've basically dropped off the radar. And fake id's used to be fairly easy to get anyway, and with a large enough money base it wouldn't be hard to keep them hidden pretty much forever. Hope some of that makes sense.

  8. #23
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    Sep 2006
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    Godz - I've stated several times that I've studied all the publicly available data on this case. Did you read the materials I posted links to at the end of the old thread?

    I've got a kind of peace offering for you, a way for us to demonstrate our sincerity to each other. I haven't been able to interest law enforcement in the writer I referred to in that posting, so I'm willing to give you my data and let you have a go at it.
    But - that will involve giving you links to materials that are extremely offensive. You claim, on your website, to be a servant of God - I will want your word as a pastor/preacher, however you describe yourself, that you will not post links to this material all over the internet. I don't want this animal's filth downloaded by people who don't already know about it.

    If you are agreeable to this, I'll set up a way for us to talk more privately than here.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Harrold
    Godz - I've stated several times that I've studied all the publicly available data on this case. Did you read the materials I posted links to at the end of the old thread?

    I've got a kind of peace offering for you, a way for us to demonstrate our sincerity to each other. I haven't been able to interest law enforcement in the writer I referred to in that posting, so I'm willing to give you my data and let you have a go at it.
    But - that will involve giving you links to materials that are extremely offensive. You claim, on your website, to be a servant of God - I will want your word as a pastor/preacher, however you describe yourself, that you will not post links to this material all over the internet. I don't want this animal's filth downloaded by people who don't already know about it.

    If you are agreeable to this, I'll set up a way for us to talk more privately than here.
    Roy, whats your motiviation here? You've made it known that your not interested in actually "solving" or Sluething this case, judging by all of the many rants and blogss that you have al over the net. You have formulated an opinion on this long ago. Your not looking for any clues, because in your mind, everyone involved has already been convicted.

    If you would like me to start pulling your rants and blogs about this case from around the net, and osting them here, I will gladly do so.

    It also seems you may have regurgitated the writings of some others, while here on webslueths.

  10. #25
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    William - if you are under the impression that the writer I'm referring to, in that posting, is you - you are incorrect. I'm not talking about you, there, so relax.

    If you have concerns about anything I've posted here, please share them with the moderators as the Terms of Service require.


  11. #26
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    Sep 2006
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    For the sake of clarification, Godzorphan gives a link to his website in posting #410 of the old thread. I don't reference anything about people who post on here that they have not mentioned here themselves.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Harrold
    Godz - I've stated several times that I've studied all the publicly available data on this case. Did you read the materials I posted links to at the end of the old thread?

    I've got a kind of peace offering for you, a way for us to demonstrate our sincerity to each other. I haven't been able to interest law enforcement in the writer I referred to in that posting, so I'm willing to give you my data and let you have a go at it.
    But - that will involve giving you links to materials that are extremely offensive. You claim, on your website, to be a servant of God - I will want your word as a pastor/preacher, however you describe yourself, that you will not post links to this material all over the internet. I don't want this animal's filth downloaded by people who don't already know about it.

    If you are agreeable to this, I'll set up a way for us to talk more privately than here.
    Yes, I did read some of the material, esp. the article concerning the Amsterdam connection. Some of the other material was inaccessible. I'm willing to look into anything that may get to the core of all of this. I still have a few good contacts in LE, and although their hands are tied in some areas, they do trust me enough to look into things if I feel they are legit. So yes, I'm willing to take a chance here. And yes, you have my word about not posting stuff. I have no desire to further the disease. I am also a little concerned about not knowing where you are on all of this, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Contact me privately when you are ready if you wish.

  13. #28
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    Roy Harrold: I've got a kind of peace offering for you, a way for us to demonstrate our sincerity to each other. I haven't been able to interest law enforcement in the writer I referred to in that posting, so I'm willing to give you my data and let you have a go at it. But - that will involve giving you links to materials that are extremely offensive. You claim, on your website, to be a servant of God - I will want your word as a pastor/preacher, however you describe yourself, that you will not post links to this material all over the internet. I don't want this animal's filth downloaded by people who don't already know about it.
    Roy, you've said yourself that you have been waiting since the Gosch/Gannon headlines (which you said you were too late to confront) to jump right in "and force the reality of the convicted sex offender status of Gosch-conspiracy "celebrities" to the forefront - at least for awhile." So why is it that anyone should believe there aren't ulterior motives attached to your offer to Godzorphan? What does Godzorphan have to gain by going to these "offensive" sites other than, perhaps, getting arrested for visiting pedo/porn sites?

  14. #29
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    Aug 2004
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    598
    Godzorphan,
    Thanks for all your meaningful input and insight to your work.
    Someone, Somewhere, Knows Something...Help Bring The Missing Home

  15. #30
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    The Franklin Cover-up is the best single source of information regarding the Johnny Gosch case, that I know of. I plan to get ‘The Mystery of the Carefully Crafted Hoax’ and Noreen Gosch’s book, ‘Why Johhny can’t come home’.

    Also I’m glad to have recently found www.FranklinCase.org as I’ve had an interest in the issues surrounding the case for years but in somewhat of a vacuum in terms of dialogue. I don’t know who’s behind the site and don’t particularly like the ‘style’ of their selling the T-Shirts, etc. to ‘spread the word’. But I look forward to digesting the info at the site as my time allows.

    Not everyone is in a position to research these issues to the extent you two appear to have done so. The ‘hands on’ perspective that you two seem to have is a great value to those who are ‘further down the grapevine’.

    Let’s face it, these cases potentially lead to MKUltra type quasi-government sanctioned programs and associated improprieties. For what its worth, the extent to which these cases truly lead to ‘MKUltra type’ programs (or at least their improprieties if not the programs) is the extent to which there is at least one reason I’m not interested in ‘hanging’ Paul Bonacci regarding Johnny Gosch. I see Roy not buying into the stranger implications of the cases, but I don’t know that his interest and motivations in seeing the cases resolved is any less honorable than those who suspect something much larger and stranger.

    I think his perspective in dialogue with Godzorphan has the overall effect of shedding important light on the subject for those who are another step removed from the cases. Simple statements like ‘I drove to the locations myself and verified that these places that were given in Bonacci's statements were exactly where he said they were, even though they were states apart’ are worth a lot of dot connecting when the dots are all ‘virtual’, and are flushed out by Roy’s challenges to the ‘stranger implications’.

    Roy and Godzorphan, do you have any other suggested reading regarding the Gosch case, Franklin Case and surrounding issues?

    Is there any chance that Paul Bonacci’s school records are available, for ongoing investigations, if not to the public?

    Do either of you know if the public has any way to ‘perceive’ cases that are sealed for ‘reasons of national security’. Is it possible, for instance, to obtain case numbers that were closed for this reason, even if the case files are sealed?

    As stated throughout the threads thanks for the important perspectives and dialogues.

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