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  1. #31

    sealed cases?

    Pablo,
    Thanks for your good post. Unfortunately I don't believe there are any other good books on this subject. One thing I believe is quite telling - especially in the light of all the "satanic panic" debunking that has gone on in the last several years - is that no one has dared try to debunk this case - at least not in the way they attacked others with the False Memory theory etc. I PERSONALLY believe that the "non-response" says two things: One, it's pretty airtight. Two, when people in high places that are involved in such activities are getting exposed, it is not unusual for them to just ignore it all, hoping if they pay it no attention, no one else will pursue it and it will eventually drop out of public concern. (And it usually does - people have a very short memory for traumatic crimes against children - a defense mechanism I guess.)

    As to sealed cases, I don't know. The Freedom of Information act is always one route to go.

    For the record, and I can't go into a lot of detail in this forum, there WAS some psy-op / military programming on certain victims in this case. That is why I too am very cautious about assigning blame.

    And while I don't know any books I CAN recommend, I must caution anyone about books or "deprogrammers" that claim to understand and are able to unlock the programming. We got burned so bad that it nearly unraveled ten years of work because of some of these "experts" who turned out not at ALL to be who they claimed.

  2. #32
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    Please allow me to weigh in

    I have been "lurking" for a while now just reading the posts related to the franklin case and johnny gosch. I am currently working on a website devoted to the franklin/johnny gosch story and this discussion has been of great interest to me.

    I have been doing extensive research on the franklin case, much of which I will be posting at http://franklinfiles.org when finished compiling. As the years go by much of the information that was made public is starting to slip into obscurity and I want to ensure that this is kept available to the public to keep awareness.

    I have initiated contact with several of the "key players" in the case and my goal is to contact them all with the opportunity to provide information for our site that would update their current lives after the case, as well as any other original documents, etc. that would be appropriate for public comsumption.

    As you can guess, most of them have tried very hard to move on with their lives, choosing to live out of the public eye, for fear of their lives and because so much of their lives have been "stolen" from them by the franklin case, they want to move on.

    Quick note here: If any of you have relevant verifiable information related to the franklin case, please contact me at the above referenced site or through private message.

    Now to my point.

    First, I will echo Godzorphan in that no real intelligent conversation can be waged unless you are conversing with a working knowledge of the book "The Franklin Coverup". DeCamp has systematically documented the facts of the case in the book. This is further evidenced by the fact that he implicates and names several public figures, with not even a hint of recourse on their part. In fact, DeCamp has publically, and on the record stated that if anyone made the same claims about him as he has made of others, he would sue for liability.

    Many tried to refute DeCamp's/Bonacci's win of the civil suit as a win by default because Larry King couldn't appear due to his incarceration. King started to appeal the decision but then abrubtly dropped the suit. Why? Because the truth would come out. During the Franklin Trials, the committee worked very diligently to include within the charges the allegations of the pedophile network which again, was irrefutable, but dismissed via cooperation on many different federal levels which DeCamp documents in the book.

    Additional publicity related to this case must be avoided at all cost because if this ever went to trial again, this would mean gag orders lifted, documents unsealed, and politicians and public figures being implicated in a scandal that would rock this nation.

    Paul Bonacci was a key witness in the case for several reasons. He did keep a very accurate diary that easily corroborates many related issues, much of which has not been released publicly, yet others have verified the contents of the diary. This diary was tested by several experts and dated years before the franklin case went public. Also, Paul's taped testimony authenticated the stories of more than 80 other people who came forward. Paul and Alicia were the only 2 that refused to back down to the bully-intimidation tactics of the FBI and others involved in the case.

    It is also worthwhile to note that "Conspiracy of Silence" was not the only documentary about this case. There was also a 20/20 investigation that was halted from airing, and even America's Most Wanted was threatened by the FBI to stop the airing of their investigation, which John Walsh ignored and did air a total of 6 episodes. I am currently working on obtaining copies of these.

    The Franklin Case is well worth the time and energy being spent in doing some thorough research to become aware of the facts of this case. This is not some scandal that rocked Nebraska in the 80's, the story is still being written today, and in fact several of the people that I have interviewed have stated that it is worse now, than it ever was when the case was blown open.

  3. #33
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    Heart of Texas - the material in question is on a blogspot site, and believe me if it was provably illegal that site would have gone bye-bye a long time ago. That doesn't mean it's not disgustingly offensive, despite being "staged" photos and fictional commentary.
    What's important about it is the fantasies it reveals the author revelling in...

    I'm just offering godzorphan a chance to look into something that involves real names of people that verifiably exist, with relevant dates and even current contact addresses. I'd rather work with someone than at odds with them.

    You chose a good quote, from me, about the Gosch case. I'm interested in arrests and convictions for the abduction of Johnny Gosch specifically. It's easy to lose sight of that initial crime and its importance, when people start talking about "other aspects" that have come to be associated with the case - all the alleged conspiracies and MKUltra and Project Monarch and partisan political slanders and Aquino and on & on.

    And frankly, I don't trust convicted sex offenders and I don't trust their motivations for promoting all this other stuff that so successfully takes people's minds off the fact of Gosch's abduction, and the reality that a convicted sex offender has attempted to confess his participation in kidnapping and raping the boy!

    There's no mystery to "where I am" on this case - I'm determined to ensure that the essential crime at the heart of it all does not get lost and buried under mountains of ifs & maybes.

  4. #34
    Franklinfiles;

    thanks for weighing in. It's good to have people from several angles and interests in on this. Somewhere I still have the AMW clips, if I can just find them. Anway I'm glad someone else is working to keep this thing alive.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by godzorphan
    Franklinfiles;

    thanks for weighing in. It's good to have people from several angles and interests in on this. Somewhere I still have the AMW clips, if I can just find them. Anway I'm glad someone else is working to keep this thing alive.
    I would be most appreciative to obtain copies of those clips.

  6. #36
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    Pablo - thank you for your kind words!

    For me, "the case" is about this - some person or persons abducted a 12 year old boy on the morning of September 5, 1982, from the streets of West Des Moines, Iowa.

    All the rest makes fascinating reading, and you'll find most of the rest of the story on the Franklin Files site.

    Personally, I don't believe the true facts about the abduction of Johnny Gosch have been uncovered or revealed by anyone to this point in time, so I can't recommend anything relevant for you to read about it other than what appears on his Doe Network listing. You might find Noreen Gosch's (his mother) perspective interesting:

    http://www.johnnygosch.com

  7. #37
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    Clips

    I have a request into AMW for the Gibson and Bonacci shows but haven't heard back. If anyone knows how to view them and/or related videos (I've seen Conspiracy of Silence) please post the info.

  8. #38
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    Case File Released?

    I saw tonight where the case file of the 2 year old missing in Florida has been released by the police.

    I was wondering if the Gosch file has ever been (or parts of it) released to the public? It might help (at least folks like me) answer some questions.

    I still have questions about the phone calls, especially the one originating from Sioux City that supposedly lasted 30 seconds just prior to his abduction. Hardly a wrong number if it lasted that long. I think the case file could help fill in some of the blanks in terms of explaining some of this, so that perhaps we sleuths could narrow down our focus. I would love for us to hear the explanation of who answered the phone (the dad i believe) and also why he did not go on the route that day, etc. I'm sure these questions were asked by LE, and answered, but have any of us really seen any of this? Can we obtain any of this?

  9. #39
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    When the original Johnny Gosch thread was started I was simply looking for updates on the case. The unbelievable amount of information related or tied to this case whether relevant or not is staggering. Lost in all this mess of conspiracy theories and whether or not we believe or disbelieve Noreen Goschs' accounts is the fact that several lives were forever changed by one day many years ago in West Des Moines. Johnny Gosch, whether he was killed ten hours later or is still alive today has had an enormous impact. His mother became a crusader, and even though I question the validity of entangling herself with Gunderson, I truly believe she is out there to do good and find her boy. This is still her child, and he will probably forever be that age he was on that fateful morning in her mind.

    I've never heard of all the impact it had on Johnny's siblings, but it must have been tremendous to go through this. The resulting divorce of Noreen and John Sr. not withstanding.

    Some people believe this or that and will never change their minds unless a skeleton uncovered proves to be Johnny at the age of abduction; or an old beyond his years Johnny Gosch comes out at a news conference with his mother and offers definitive proof of his existence and tells exactly what happened these past three decades. A storybook ending is probably never going to happen in this case. It comes down to a simple either or; either he is dead, or he is alive. If he is alive he is irreperably damaged. If he is dead then all the rest of this is window dressing, but Noreen Goschs' gift to missing children cannot be denied. The Johnny Gosch Bill was a major victory, and she has done some great work in honor of her son.

    So when we lose sight of the prize and fight amongst ourselves over who believes what, let's remember that no theory or opinion has ever solved a mystery. Tireless investigation work and hopefully a little luck is what puts the bad guys in jail and brings the wounded home again. I know that 'proof' seems to be a loosely used word these days, but when I talk about proof I mean verifiable fact leading toward the conclusion of the investigation.

    Johnny Gosch disappeared over twenty years ago, that is the one fact I know, and not one theory or opinion has yet solved this case. I guess what I want is resolution to a case that has haunted me for most of my life. I want to know what happened to that boy.

    It's late, forgive me for preaching.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Harrold
    William - if you are under the impression that the writer I'm referring to, in that posting, is you - you are incorrect. I'm not talking about you, there, so relax.

    If you have concerns about anything I've posted here, please share them with the moderators as the Terms of Service require.
    You have no knowledge of anything I've written, and quite frankly, you are the last person I'm worried about in that regard. That being said, your response to my post makes no sense. I take offense at the constant stream of slanted nonsense that you regurgitate here from your numerous post on the internet and on your blog.

    You have made your view that this isn't really even a case, and your theory that the guilty has already admitted guilt, very well known, so why do you continue to post on site where people are trying to develop theories or move along a case with insight and deductive reasoning?

    Did you ever ask yourself for a second Roy, if Bonacci admitted he was guilty and knew so much, why they didn't arrest him? Perhaps theirein lies the answer, but unfortunately, it's a long trail in the complete opposite direction from where your at.


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Harrold

    And frankly, I don't trust convicted sex offenders and I don't trust their motivations for promoting all this other stuff that so successfully takes people's minds off the fact of Gosch's abduction, and the reality that a convicted sex offender has attempted to confess his participation in kidnapping and raping the boy!

    What is he promoting Roy? where is Bonacci doing TV shows, radio shows? where is his website? He told his story, was punished for it, recieved no royalties for the book, and now has a wife and family, and has questly dissapeared.

    It appears to me that your being abused impacts what you think about this case a lot more than the facts do.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by miles_draken
    Johnny Gosch disappeared over twenty years ago, that is the one fact I know, and not one theory or opinion has yet solved this case. I guess what I want is resolution to a case that has haunted me for most of my life. I want to know what happened to that boy.

    It's late, forgive me for preaching.
    Really well written. And I am with you on the last part. I have been going over all the info I have, and it is still very painful to even think about. I just want to know too, and may never. But as I expressed to someone else, if he's still alive, and has internet access...well, who knows...if he ever ends up here, he will at least know how much people care even now.

  13. #43
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    Miles, thank you for an excellent post. Sometimes it helps to stop and clarify what our purpose is. Thanks.

  14. #44
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    Great Post

    Miles, I want to echo others....Great Post.

    Bottom line, someone abducted him and he was immediately gone...to where we don't know.

    Someone(s) should be held accountable for the crime, and specific to this crime, that has not happened. If they have been punished for other crimes, then so be it, but obviously nobody has admitted (other then Paul) or been charged with partaking in this specific event.

    Would love, as I said earlier, to see the actual police reports and interviews, and go from there, but guess that is not happening for all of us right now. Too many questions, and not enough answers. Lets keep looking for the clues.

    I have kids of my own, the same age as Johnny, and I hate to think that this guy or guys are still out there somewhere.

  15. #45
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    America's Most Wanted Inovlement

    Due to copyright here are the first 3 paragraphs. The article in its entirety can be found at: http://franklinfiles.org/content/view/58/35

    The investigation was moving rapidly in the Franklin case, as proof poured in by the bucketful. Then, I received a call from AMW producer for the show, Paul Sparrow.
    "We are going to slow it down a bit on the Franklin story," Sparrow told me, "until you can get a break in the courts or get some responsible law enforcement to follow up some of the leads we have provided them. I don't know how to exactly say this, but I am beginning to understand what you are up against when it comes to certain law enforcement not wanting to pursue this story," Sparrow continued.
    "What, exactly, do you mean?" I asked him.
    "Well," Sparrow continued, "you must be aware of the fact that America's Most Wanted works extremely close with the FBI. In fact, without them we would not really be able to have a program. We really have never had any major disagreements in all our programming because we canít afford to. Our success requires their cooperation and we are a tremendous benefit to them, which they could get nowhere else. But we are running into some severe problems on this Franklin thing. It is the first time that the FBI is refusing to cooperate. And, they are making it very clear that they want us off of this story particularly anything to do with the FBI."
    Last edited by Franklinfiles; 09-29-2006 at 12:04 PM. Reason: Link is not working

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