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  1. #256
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    Ok, this is so weird that I am posting it separately...

    ...this is written by Patricia Johnson-Holmes, and almost qualifies to be a "word salad", the definition of which is:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_sa...ntal_health%29

    The material written by PJH is at:

    http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:...s&ct=clnk&cd=1

    Also, I cannot find any evidence that her son was kidnapped or is missing - ANYWHERE. As adamant as she is about everything else, you'd think this would be all over her websites....but...

    ("Twilight Zone" theme playing softly in the background... )

  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by cappuccina
    ...this is written by Patricia Johnson-Holmes, and almost qualifies to be a "word salad", the definition of which is:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_sa...ntal_health%29

    The material written by PJH is at:

    http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:...s&ct=clnk&cd=1

    Also, I cannot find any evidence that her son was kidnapped or is missing - ANYWHERE. As adamant as she is about everything else, you'd think this would be all over her websites....but...

    ("Twilight Zone" theme playing softly in the background... )
    Oh my goodness, word salad is the first thing that came to my mind as well!!!!!

  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by cappuccinaThe material written by PJH is at:

    [url="http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:-Ku3eb-9hnAJ:www.apfn.net/Messageboard/08-22-06/discussion.cgi.70.html+%22patricia+johnson-holms&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1"
    http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:-Ku3eb-9hnAJ:www.apfn.net/Messageboard/08-22-06/discussion.cgi.70.html+%22patricia+johnson-holms&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1[/url]


    Good grief! Now Polly Klass was murdered by the "conspiracy"...

    Concerning the "cut and paste" posts of the forum, here is a hypothesis:
    Gunderson, Noreen and Gannon are obviously big players in the Gosch/Franklin scenario - Holm is not (at least until now). Yet, all four appear in the thread back-to-back. I suspect that Holm created the thread and posted using the other's names in order to be member of the celebrities of the conspiracy theory. This may represent the first attempt to insert herself into the case, with the misidentification of the middle boy being the second.
    Order the book "Searching For Anna" directly from [URL="http://www.lulu.com/conte

  4. #259
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    It seems like now Patricia is going to be talking for noreen, considering she keeps passing the buck to her on the issue. I want to see any proof that David Johnson was ever kidnapped or even existed for that matter. How dare they drag Polly Klass into their nonsense. Her father is a true advocate for children, not those 2. In the past Noreen was, but not anymore.

  5. #260
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    A few observations about the pictures.

    In my profession in Marketing I work with pictures all day including altering them to look better to be made from color to b/w etc. I would like to share with you my observations of the 3 photos presented on the www.johnnygosch.com home page. The one with the 3 children in it looks more like a picture taken in the later 70's than the mid 80's because keep in mind, if the middle child was identified to be that other mother's child that picture would have to be taken in 1985 or later. The style of clothing, hair styles and the overall aging of that picture suggest late 1970's not mid 80's. Now onto the pictures featuring just the one boy. If you look closely at them there are some differences. Notice the bed sheets. In one they are plain white. In the other they have a brown floral print. On the boy himself. Notice the hair. The hair is totally different. The bandannas used as a gag are different in the pictures as well. The one with the brown floral sheets is a pink paisley design. The one with the white sheets is plain white. The child in the picture with the brown sheets also appears to be taller than the one with the white sheets. Picture quality. If you compare the picture quality, the one with the brown floral sheets is clearer and the color is more crisp than the one with the white sheets. Now notice how the pictures are cropped. The one with the white sheets had a white boarder. That means that picture was probably a Polaroid. Especially when you consider the quality and overall look of the picture. If you kidnaped a child and were to take pictures of him like that for whatever reason, I doubt you would use 35mm film and later go get it developed somewhere. Unless you have the equipment to do that yourself which I doubt a lot of people have. One would think that a Polaroid would be the safer way to go. No need for developing, reasonable equipment price and the cameras and film are and were readily available. My opinion is that these two pictures were taken at different times with totally different equipment. The one with the white sheets looks like it was taken by a amateur and rather quickly. The one with the brown floral sheets has a look to it like someone used a high powered flash and took lighting into account. Also, in my opinion, that picture looks like it was taken considerably later than the one with the white sheets. In my opinion, the picture I would put the most stock in as actually being Johnny and put the most effort in investigating is the one with the white sheets. The hair style, quality, aging and lighting in that one look way more like a picture taken in 1982. Also, the boy featured in that pic looks a lot more like Johnny to me. Especially the hair. I cannot think of any boy that age or anyone for that matter wearing their hair in that style for over 15 years. I would like to find out more about this picture and it's origins. Also, I was wondering does anyone know is the actual photos are in anyone Possession? Were the computer printouts or actual photos? If the one with the white sheets is actually a Polaroid, then there are chances that is the actual photo and not a copy. You can do testing on that photo and a lot of Polaroid film has date stamps on it (ie when it was manufactured etc.) If we could date the film it would definitely help rule in or rule out this photo as possible evidence. I would like to hear anyone else’s thoughts on my observations. Especially people who work around photos all the time ( photographers, developers, etc.) Thank you for your time and I hope we find Johnny. May it be alive or dead. Because regardless what kind of closure this ends up bringing, at least it will bring closure.

  6. #261
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    Thank you Mark for taking the time to do...

    ...such a thorough analysis...wow! The problem we have here, (and folks who've been here a lot longer than me, please correct me if I misstate anything...) is that the photos are supposedly in the possession of Noreen Gosch, who, as you can see from these discussions is evasive at best, immersed in her world of conspiracy theories, and not even open to basic questions that other in similar situations like Marc Klass or Patty Wetterling, would have gladly answered, including the quesitons you've brought up here.

    Now, since you are an expert in this field, she might talk to you, especially given the level of detail you have found. I think if you were to approach her "clinically" - meaning like you provuided the information for us here, she might be open to talking to you, and answering the questions you have. I hope she is because you can provide an expert analysis that the rest of us cannot.

    Frankly, if it were me, I would want all of the help, advice, opinions I could get because it is often the "one little clue" or observation that solves a previously cold criminal case. What really, really puzzles me is that her reaction seems to be the exact opposite. She retreats and lashes out at thos trying to help...I just don't get it... (Actually, I do get it...the "closure" that will be brought to her is news that her son is no longer alive, and she cannot hear it...)

    Now I don't know where you live, but the Des Moines PD/LE folks who are assigned to this cold case might want to hear from you also...

  7. #262
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    capp, i just felt the polly klaas comment had

    to be aired on here. I am telling you people this lady is plain nuts. I wonder if Noreen actually believes everything this lady believes? Here is a sort of press release from Holms talking about sinister forces having a web site taken down that discussed how special ops forces and the Bush administration were reponsible for the death of Polly Klaas. Someone should alert Mark that this nut bag Noreen has associated herself with is saying these things about his daughters case. Especially the part about Richard Allen Davis not being guilty of the crime. Here's the press release i didn't paste the whole article because its just more of the same thing.

    The Bush Gestapo just this past day had the following Web page taken down so take a look at what your Bush Cheney Organized Crime Operation is doing for you but be reminded that this Web page clearly exposed the Satanist Bohemia Grove and it's CIA global crime operation being fully responsible for the ritualistic rape, torture and murder of Polly Klass (and the tens of thousands of children every year who are ritualistically raped, tortured, and murdered by this Elitist Mens Club members in the connecting deep underground cavern system that is accessible from only the Bohemia Grove facility located in Monte Roya California) at the Bohemia Grove and that her so called murderer Richard Allan Davis who in fact didn't actually murder Polly Klass but merely with the assistance of the Petaluma Police Department had her taken their tied and bound through CIA Wackenhut Security and that Richard Allen Davis was in fact a payroll CIA Finder and only escorted Polly Klass there to be later ritualistically raped and murdered. Your tax dollars hard a work not going after the real terrorists in the Washington District of Criminals.
    The Bohemian Grove and the Murder of Polly Klaas July 13,2001


    There is also another blip on the page talking about how Patricia Johnson Holms is "homeless" because the entire corrupt washington state loaw enforcement comunity have managed to halp certain evil people take all of her estate and wealth. Maybe Holms expects some financial gain from all of this.

  8. #263
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    I will say it again, where do these 2 get off involving the Klass family in this. Marc Klass has been through enough already. to make this bizzare story up is just beyond me. IMO, Noreens website needs to be shut down. Her and Patricia Holmes are not child advocates, just an alien who thinks the governemnt caused hurricane katrina and a woman who have gone off the deep end. I am deeply sorry for the loss of noreen's son but enough already.

  9. #264
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    Something just dawned on me this morning (sorry, sometimes the ol' brain doesn't work as well as it should):

    If Johnny visited Noreen as an adult, why is she still investigating this as if he is "missing"? She should be concentrating on locating her son as an adult, not chasing ghosts from 20 years ago.
    Order the book "Searching For Anna" directly from [URL="http://www.lulu.com/conte

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie
    Something just dawned on me this morning (sorry, sometimes the ol' brain doesn't work as well as it should):

    If Johnny visited Noreen as an adult, why is she still investigating this as if he is "missing"? She should be concentrating on locating her son as an adult, not chasing ghosts from 20 years ago.
    hmm, good point.


  11. #266
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    Find Johnny today, and he can "prove" the truth of the conspiracy. The lid would be blown off with unassailable evidence. However, if you spend your time looking for a missing child who doesn't exist today, you can stretch this investigation out forever...
    Order the book "Searching For Anna" directly from [URL="http://www.lulu.com/conte

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sisters
    I will say it again, where do these 2 get off involving the Klass family in this. Marc Klass has been through enough already. to make this bizzare story up is just beyond me. IMO, Noreens website needs to be shut down. Her and Patricia Holmes are not child advocates, just an alien who thinks the governemnt caused hurricane katrina and a woman who have gone off the deep end. I am deeply sorry for the loss of noreen's son but enough already.
    I don't want to get off the Johnny Gosch subject here but speaking of what Marc Klaas has been through...remember he was just brought up in the whole John Mark Karr/JonBenet thing where Karr had a fascination with Polly Klaas too, even moving to Petaluma and then started corresponding with Richard Davis in prison I think....so not only does he have to go through what he did when Polly was murdered but he has to relive it through idiots like Karr and Patricia Holmes.

  13. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by liz325
    I don't want to get off the Johnny Gosch subject here but speaking of what Marc Klaas has been through...remember he was just brought up in the whole John Mark Karr/JonBenet thing where Karr had a fascination with Polly Klaas too, even moving to Petaluma and then started corresponding with Richard Davis in prison I think....so not only does he have to go through what he did when Polly was murdered but he has to relive it through idiots like Karr and Patricia Holmes.
    I couldn't agree more. This woman is basically calling the cold blooded murderer of his daughter a "hired hand" and saying he didn't kill her. She wants to blame the Busch administration and some hokey pokey conspiracy involving underground tunnels and Bohemia Grove. Richard Allen Davis confessed and is evil. To say he isn't responsible is a smack in Mark Klaas's face. I dare Noreen to send this new developement to Greta or someone in the mainstream media, Mark and Greta will eat her phony baloney mother of missing boy story to pieces and tear her to shreds.Shame on Noreen Gosch for even allowing herself to be affiliated with this woman who disgraces the victims with her outlandish tales.

  14. #269
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    good point

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie
    Find Johnny today, and he can "prove" the truth of the conspiracy. The lid would be blown off with unassailable evidence. However, if you spend your time looking for a missing child who doesn't exist today, you can stretch this investigation out forever...
    Exactly! And If you say he came back as an adult and then left back into hiding as an adult that makes him an adult runaway and as such you might believe that you have removed any reason for L.E. to continue looking for him as adult runaways have the right to go missing voluntarily so you can then say L.E. are not doing their job while you continue to appear to be looking . . . .forever looking.

    Scratching chin and doing some "iffin'. . . . .
    And iiiiiifff you are a suspect in your sons disappearance and iiiiiifff you know he is dead and iiiiiifff you had something to do with your sons disappearance you might want to approach things just that way once enough years had passed for for him to have been an adult had he lived.

    I know thats an awful lot of iffin going on but unril some evidence comes along to bump her off the list of suspects I feel that I have to look at what she has done from the "why would a suspect be doing that?" angle.

    I realize she could also just be someone in dire need of some mental health help and I suppose there might be reasons that I know nothing about to explain her behavior but I don't believe I would give much weight to end time aliens as a possibility.

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjak
    . . .There is no need to edit your early posts or talk negativly about yourself for not sleuthing this IP info earlier. As when I posted the forum entries originally, I did not know exctly what they meant except they appeared suspicious to me. I hoped people would look further into them and either validate them or debunk them. That is exactly what we are all here to do. Sleuthing is not a lateral road. We need to bring evidence, discuss it, explore it, challenge it and see where it takes us. By editing posts to fit the progression your rewriting history which later on could prove valuable. Never aplogize for challenging and learning as we go forward in trying to find out what Happened to Johnny . What you are apologizing for is exactly what we are all here to do SLEUTH!!! I still believe these Women are running in the same circles and I find that a coincidence that I can not buy into.

    mjak
    Thank you for the kind response. I guess my overlooking the IP addys listed in the posts bothered me more because it is something to do with computers and that is an area where I have quite a bit of education (networking courses, cabling, various programming languages, html webpage design, computer repair & upgrade, business apps and so forth. And then a couple years of electronics which often involved programming comps and controllers.) What I did was overlook something very simple because I was a bit lazy, possibly made worse due to having that nasty cough and congestion thats been running rampant in my local area. I feel as if someone has been beating my ribs too. -lol . . .ouch.

    The posts you brought to our attention looked similar to what I would expect posts and responses on a forum to look like at first glance so I didn't look deeper as I should have done. Good thing others on this forum, like Insguru, aren't as lazy as I was.

    I think I will be a bit more lazy and not try to verify the IP addys listed for now beyond seeing that those in the posts appear to be the same and that casts enough doubt on the posts for me to not use them as evidence in posts here. Since I did not see the post by the lady I can't say whether it to had the same IP listed as the gosch and gannon post. However it is important to note that the IP addy shown could easily have been faked on that web page so beyond noting that they appear to be similar one cannot draw to many conclusions from the numbers.

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