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  1. #1
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    Locked doors don't mean RDI

    Even if all the doors to the house were locked, this plainly does not prove that there was no intruder. Even the BPD (BORG) established that there were many copies of the house keys in distribution to friends etc. It really would be easy for a determined acquaintance paedophile to acquire copies, and then use them that night. No alarm and no dog. And the basement window and the grate would be irrelevant and not the point of access/escape. Also, the footprints in the snow myth is shot because the drives and paths were clear. So there is no way to say that an intruder could not have entered or that it was unlikely, surely?

  2. #2
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    i too have wondered why everyone looks to the window as a point of entry when it is common knowledge that many keys were out there (i have heard numbers as high as 20). One thing that will always kill the intruder theory in my opinion is the lack of foreign shoe or finger prints. Before anyone mentions it, the palm print on the door belonged to family and the Hi-tec boot was traced to burke.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay78
    i too have wondered why everyone looks to the window as a point of entry when it is common knowledge that many keys were out there (i have heard numbers as high as 20). One thing that will always kill the intruder theory in my opinion is the lack of foreign shoe or finger prints. Before anyone mentions it, the palm print on the door belonged to family and the Hi-tec boot was traced to burke.
    Jay78,

    I don't think the basement window was the point of entry/escape either,but I thinking maybe people do,because it apparently was slightly ajar according to John Ramsey.

    Your correct,the palm print on the wine cellar door was Melinda Ramsey's,but the Hi-Tec boot is still debatable ... they have not recovered Hi-Tec boots belonging to Burke.There is an interview,where it is talked about Burke admitting in the Grand Jury that he owned Hi-Tec's,but again it is not a hard fact and is debatable.

  4. #4
    imo, the Hi-Tec boot is a big "who cares", as there is no evidence the bootprint was left on the night of the murder. There were numerous strangers, friends, workmen in the R house in the weeks/months before JBR's death. There is no way to prove the bootprint wasn't an old one.

    Did LE ever say what size Hi-Tec boot the print was from? Should not be difficult to know if it was Burked-size or man-sized, no?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by sandraladeda
    imo, the Hi-Tec boot is a big "who cares", as there is no evidence the bootprint was left on the night of the murder. There were numerous strangers, friends, workmen in the R house in the weeks/months before JBR's death. There is no way to prove the bootprint wasn't an old one.

    Did LE ever say what size Hi-Tec boot the print was from? Should not be difficult to know if it was Burked-size or man-sized, no?
    I may have found the answer to my own question about the Hi-Tec boot from the "Fibers" thread, courtesy of Nuisanceposter -
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuisanceposter

    Burke owned Hi-Tecs and that print could certainly have been from his shoes. It wasn't a full footprint but basically just the logo - that doesn't stop people from saying it was a size 10 print and therefore could not have come from Burke, who would have worn a smaller size. The logo is the same size on adult and child shoes.
    Is this true, that only the logo was left at the scene? I don't recall this fact from any of my reading or sleuthing.

    I still maintain that it is impossible to know whether the logo was left by BR or any workman who did work in the R home that year, imo....

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Bootprint Logo Only?

    [QUOTE=sandraladeda
    Is this true, that only the logo was left at the scene? I don't recall this fact from any of my reading or sleuthing.

    I still maintain that it is impossible to know whether the logo was left by BR or any workman who did work in the R home that year, imo....[/QUOTE]

    Crazy as this may seem, in a book several years ago, they were investigating mutilated cattle, where there were no footprints. It was determined that a truck like those used in repairing traffic lights (a cherry picker?) had been used. Tire tracks were found about the right distance away.

    It'd be pretty easy to put a shoe/boot on a long pole and make the imprint in the bsmt mold in this case. That would account for there being only one print, no prints of anyone walking, no "other shoe".

    We don't know how fresh the print was, but the fact there was only one, probably meant to mystify, sort of implies it was connected with the crime.

    In some LE interviews, they state that the palm print owner isn't known, not Melinda, nor is the bootprint person or persons known. There was also a duffle bag in the crawl space, which figured in a child murder case in California, and I don't know why it gets ignored. Sounds like a clue to me, tho' not necessarily a connection to the other case at all.

  7. #7
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    hmmmmmm....like JR said in his interview.." all those funny little clues"

  8. #8
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    Locked doors may not mean a Ramsey did it, but you have to remember one very important fact--there was IMO, no evidence of an intruder. An intruder would have left something behind. A handprint, fingerprints, hair or clothes fibers.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeight
    Even if all the doors to the house were locked, this plainly does not prove that there was no intruder. Even the BPD (BORG) established that there were many copies of the house keys in distribution to friends etc. It really would be easy for a determined acquaintance paedophile to acquire copies, and then use them that night. No alarm and no dog. And the basement window and the grate would be irrelevant and not the point of access/escape. Also, the footprints in the snow myth is shot because the drives and paths were clear. So there is no way to say that an intruder could not have entered or that it was unlikely, surely?
    Maybe not, but along with all the other evidence that points directly to the Ramseys and no evidence of an intruder it's not looking good is it?

  10. #10
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    Also, the footprints in the snow myth is shot because the drives and paths were clear. So there is no way to say that an intruder could not have entered or that it was unlikely, surely?
    True.

    But then, what criminal would be stupid enough to just walk up to the house in plain view of who-knows-who?

    And yes, we said a "boot print," but it was really only the logo that was visible.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by philamena
    Locked doors may not mean a Ramsey did it, but you have to remember one very important fact--there was IMO, no evidence of an intruder. An intruder would have left something behind. A handprint, fingerprints, hair or clothes fibers.
    I agree . you would think that if an intruder was in that house , substantial dna would have been left. considering he wrote the note , fed her pineapple , had close proximity to her when he was strangling her, but the only fibers on that little girl were from her parents.

  12. #12
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    DNA and fiber evidence

    Quote Originally Posted by cynpat2000
    I agree . you would think that if an intruder was in that house , substantial dna would have been left. considering he wrote the note , fed her pineapple , had close proximity to her when he was strangling her, but the only fibers on that little girl were from her parents.
    The fiber evidence seems to be contentious - I know that a lot of fibers found were 'consistent' with those of Ramsey clothes eg Patsy's black and red jacket etc. but I am concerned by these points:
    Isn't it true that there is still some DNA evidence untested?
    Isn't it true that that most of the DNA found was contaminated / degraded and therefore inconclusive re intruder or otherwise?
    Wasn't there DNA and fibers found that are not accounted for ie not belonging to the Ramseys?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeight
    The fiber evidence seems to be contentious - I know that a lot of fibers found were 'consistent' with those of Ramsey clothes eg Patsy's black and red jacket etc. but I am concerned by these points:
    Isn't it true that there is still some DNA evidence untested?
    Isn't it true that that most of the DNA found was contaminated / degraded and therefore inconclusive re intruder or otherwise?
    Wasn't there DNA and fibers found that are not accounted for ie not belonging to the Ramseys?
    I have only heard about the dna in her underwear, that was old and they feel like it was from a factory worker because they tested similar pairs and also found minute dna in them. also the dna under her fingernails which was I think partial. and she could have gotten that anywhere. But I think if it was intruder there would have been a whole lot of dna. as for the fibers the only fibers were the ones from john and patsys clothes also some sort of animal or faux animal hair that Ive read somewhere, dont remember where , or if it was accurate ,that it could have been from patsys boots. maybe other members here know of more dna or fibers that im not aware of. but if you go to acandyrose.com they have ALOT of info on the case and You may find the answers you are looking for...hope this helps.

  14. #14
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    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43785 something I found that may be of help....

  15. #15
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    "I agree . you would think that if an intruder was in that house , substantial dna would have been left. considering he wrote the note , fed her pineapple , had close proximity to her when he was strangling her, but the only fibers on that little girl were from her parents."

    You just nailed in one paragraph what it took me three years to seize on!

    Isn't it true that there is still some DNA evidence untested?
    No. They went over everything.

    Isn't it true that that most of the DNA found was contaminated / degraded and therefore inconclusive re intruder or otherwise?
    That's right. It was far too degraded to have been left that night, but that doesn't, in and of itself, mean there was no intruder. Wish the RST would understand that.

    Wasn't there DNA and fibers found that are not accounted for ie not belonging to the Ramseys?
    Just normal crime-scene crud.

    I have only heard about the dna in her underwear, that was old and they feel like it was from a factory worker because they tested similar pairs and also found minute dna in them. also the dna under her fingernails which was I think partial. and she could have gotten that anywhere.
    That's how most people involved in the case called it.

    But I think if it was intruder there would have been a whole lot of dna. as for the fibers the only fibers were the ones from john and patsys clothes also some sort of animal or faux animal hair that Ive read somewhere, dont remember where , or if it was accurate ,that it could have been from patsys boots.
    There's a picture of her wearing said boots.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.



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