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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Burbs
    Posts
    1,074

    CA - Kaitlyn Avila, 3, shot to death, Los Angeles, 1 Oct 2006

    LOS ANGELES (AP) ó A 3-year-old girl gunned down in her driveway was targeted in a callous attack by gang members, who mistakenly thought her father was a member of a rival group, authorities said.

    Kaitlyn Avila died Oct. 1 when two men pulled up in front of her family's apartment and one shot her point blank.

    "This wasn't an accident or case of her getting caught in the fire," police Deputy Chief Charles Beck said Monday. "He intended to kill her. This was a callous killing. It is beyond even what gangsters consider usual."

    Beck said the killer approached Kaitlyn, father Cesar Avila and her 6-year-old sister as they were getting out of their car after a trip to McDonald's. He wounded Cesar Avila, erroneously believing that he was a member of a rival gang, then shot Kaitlyn once in the chest, police said.

    A joint task force of the LAPD and FBI has arrested one suspect, the alleged driver. But the 17-year-old suspected triggerman, Jonathan Banks, was still being sought.

    http://www.courttv.com/news/2006/101...ershot_ap.html
    The above post is as always MY OPINION ONLY!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    92,366
    What is this world coming to? Even the mob usually tries to avoid hurting children, don't they?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    144
    It is completely beyond me how people behave the way they do. There is a special section reserved in hell for them.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,333
    I think so many times "people" see children as possessions. These creeps probably thought nothing more of this than stealing the guy's car or vandalizing it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Penns' woods
    Posts
    1,482
    Being one of those "older folks," I have watched what is happening for many years. When I was in school we had the flag salute and said the Lord's Prayer. When prayer was eliminated we had a moment of silence. Parents and teachers were allowed to inflict punishment. I saw the "Board of Education" used and believe me, I never wanted it used on me! And most of those who got it learned a lesson. When my kids were in school I went in and signed a consent form ... whack 'em if they need it. They never needed it, but I believe it would have been used if necessary.

    Now a teacher wouldn't even think of such punishment, they even have to be afraid of hugging a small child who may never get hugs at home because someone might jump to conclusions. What a sick world.

    I recently received an email, I am going to share it here.
    All the recent school shootings should be added and all the needless crimes that are filling our news every day.

    Dear God:

    Why didn't you save the school children at . . . . ?

    Moses Lake, Washington 2/2/96
    Bethel, Alaska 2/19/97
    Pearl, Mississippi 10/1/97
    West Paducah , Kentucky 12/1/97
    Stamp, Arkansas 12/15/97
    Jonesboro, Arkansas 3/24/98
    Edinboro, Pennsylvania 4/24/98
    Fayetteville, Tennessee 5/19/98
    Springfield, Oregon 5/21/98
    Richmond, Virginia 6/15/98
    Littleton, Colorado 4/20/99
    Taber, Alberta, Canada 5/28/99
    Conyers, Georgia 5/20/99
    Deming, New Mexico 11/19/99
    Fort Gibson, Oklahoma 12/6/99
    Santee, California 3/ 5/01 and
    El Cajon, California 3/22/01?

    Sincerely,
    Concerned Student

    -----------------------------------------------------

    Reply:

    Dear Concerned Student:


    I am not allowed in schools.



    Sincerely,
    God

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    How did this get started?...

    -----------------

    Let's see,
    I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained
    she didn't want any prayer in our schools.



    And we said, OK.

    ------------------

    Then, someone said you better not

    read the Bible in school,
    the Bible that says
    "thou shalt not kill,
    thou shalt not steal,
    and love your neighbors as yourself,"



    And we said, OK...

    -----------------

    Dr. Benjamin Spock said
    we shouldn't spank our children
    when they misbehaved
    because their little personalities
    would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem.
    And we said,
    an expert should know what he's talking about



    so we won't spank them anymore..

    ------------------

    Then someone said
    teachers and principals better not
    discipline our children when they misbehave.
    And the school administrators said
    no faculty member in this school
    better touch a student when they misbehave
    because we don't want any bad publicity,
    and we surely don't want to be sued.



    And we accepted their reasoning...

    ------------------

    Then someone said,
    let's let our daughters have abortions if they want,
    and they won't even have to tell their parents.



    And we said, that's a grand idea...

    ------------------

    Then some wise school board member said,
    since boys will be boys
    and they're going to do it anyway,
    let's give our sons all the condoms they want,
    so they can have all the fun they desire,
    and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school.



    And we said, that's another great idea...

    ------------------

    Then some of our top elected officials said
    it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs.



    And we said,



    it doesn't matter what anybody, including the President,



    does in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good....

    ------------------

    And someone else took that appreciation a step further
    and published pictures of nude children
    and then stepped further still by
    making them available on the Internet.



    And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....

    ------------------

    And the entertainment industry said,
    let's make TV shows and movies that promote
    profanity, violence and illicit sex...
    And let's record music that encourages
    rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...



    And we said,



    it's just entertainment



    and it has no adverse effect



    and nobody takes it seriously anyway,



    so go right ahead.

    ------------------

    Now we're asking ourselves



    why our children have no conscience,



    why they don't know right from wrong,



    and why it doesn't bother them to



    kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.

    ------------------

    Undoubtedly,



    if we thought about it long and hard enough,
    we could figure it out.



    I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...
    "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Burbs
    Posts
    1,074
    Quote Originally Posted by Lili
    Being one of those "older folks," I have watched what is happening for many years. When I was in school we had the flag salute and said the Lord's Prayer. When prayer was eliminated we had a moment of silence. Parents and teachers were allowed to inflict punishment. I saw the "Board of Education" used and believe me, I never wanted it used on me! And most of those who got it learned a lesson. When my kids were in school I went in and signed a consent form ... whack 'em if they need it. They never needed it, but I believe it would have been used if necessary.

    Now a teacher wouldn't even think of such punishment, they even have to be afraid of hugging a small child who may never get hugs at home because someone might jump to conclusions. What a sick world.

    I recently received an email, I am going to share it here.
    All the recent school shootings should be added and all the needless crimes that are filling our news every day.

    Dear God:

    Why didn't you save the school children at . . . . ?

    Moses Lake, Washington 2/2/96
    Bethel, Alaska 2/19/97
    Pearl, Mississippi 10/1/97
    West Paducah , Kentucky 12/1/97
    Stamp, Arkansas 12/15/97
    Jonesboro, Arkansas 3/24/98
    Edinboro, Pennsylvania 4/24/98
    Fayetteville, Tennessee 5/19/98
    Springfield, Oregon 5/21/98
    Richmond, Virginia 6/15/98
    Littleton, Colorado 4/20/99
    Taber, Alberta, Canada 5/28/99
    Conyers, Georgia 5/20/99
    Deming, New Mexico 11/19/99
    Fort Gibson, Oklahoma 12/6/99
    Santee, California 3/ 5/01 and
    El Cajon, California 3/22/01?

    Sincerely,
    Concerned Student

    -----------------------------------------------------

    Reply:

    Dear Concerned Student:


    I am not allowed in schools.



    Sincerely,
    God

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    How did this get started?...

    -----------------

    Let's see,
    I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained
    she didn't want any prayer in our schools.



    And we said, OK.

    ------------------

    Then, someone said you better not

    read the Bible in school,
    the Bible that says
    "thou shalt not kill,
    thou shalt not steal,
    and love your neighbors as yourself,"



    And we said, OK...

    -----------------

    Dr. Benjamin Spock said
    we shouldn't spank our children
    when they misbehaved
    because their little personalities
    would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem.
    And we said,
    an expert should know what he's talking about



    so we won't spank them anymore..

    ------------------

    Then someone said
    teachers and principals better not
    discipline our children when they misbehave.
    And the school administrators said
    no faculty member in this school
    better touch a student when they misbehave
    because we don't want any bad publicity,
    and we surely don't want to be sued.



    And we accepted their reasoning...

    ------------------

    Then someone said,
    let's let our daughters have abortions if they want,
    and they won't even have to tell their parents.



    And we said, that's a grand idea...

    ------------------

    Then some wise school board member said,
    since boys will be boys
    and they're going to do it anyway,
    let's give our sons all the condoms they want,
    so they can have all the fun they desire,
    and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school.



    And we said, that's another great idea...

    ------------------

    Then some of our top elected officials said
    it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs.



    And we said,



    it doesn't matter what anybody, including the President,



    does in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good....

    ------------------

    And someone else took that appreciation a step further
    and published pictures of nude children
    and then stepped further still by
    making them available on the Internet.



    And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....

    ------------------

    And the entertainment industry said,
    let's make TV shows and movies that promote
    profanity, violence and illicit sex...
    And let's record music that encourages
    rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...



    And we said,



    it's just entertainment



    and it has no adverse effect



    and nobody takes it seriously anyway,



    so go right ahead.

    ------------------

    Now we're asking ourselves



    why our children have no conscience,



    why they don't know right from wrong,



    and why it doesn't bother them to



    kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.

    ------------------

    Undoubtedly,



    if we thought about it long and hard enough,
    we could figure it out.



    I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...
    "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"
    AMEN
    The above post is as always MY OPINION ONLY!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    2,437
    Quote Originally Posted by Opie
    ...Even the mob usually tries to avoid hurting children, don't they?
    Not to glorify the mob, but they see themselves as business people, and it is bad business to create negative publicity by killing children. However, these gangs are nothing more than a collection of low-lifes who have no sense of morality at all - killing a child means nothing to them. As ridiculous as it sounds, they give criminals a bad name.
    Order the book "Searching For Anna" directly from [URL="http://www.lulu.com/conte

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    16,021
    Quote Originally Posted by georgiagirl
    AMEN
    God is absolutely allowed in schools. Anyone can pray to the God of their understanding at any time - in school or out of school. There are no restrictions on this.

    Organized prayer of any religion is not allowed in schools and this is as it should be.

    God was with those children killed in school every step of the way and God is with them still.
    I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    3,066
    The kids I know who go to Catholic Schools are no better behaved than the kids I know who go to public schools. It's utterly ridiculous to blame these things on lack of prayer or corporal punishment in schools. Give me a break.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    1,810
    I agree that you can't blame all the ills of the todays world on lack of prayer and corporal punishment in schools.

    There were equally heinous acts being committed in the "good ol' days"---- the major difference is that people didn't talk about them, and media wasn't as prevalent as it is today. Back in the good old days, people were still brutally murdered, children were silently forced to live with repeatedly being sexually abused, and violence was not a rare occurrence.

    Although I do think that todays youth sometimes lack a certain respect for life, which is evident in this story, I wouldn't place blame on the schools. Their job is to educate, not instill morals or values. It is parents who are lacking in instilling these qualities in their kids.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN
    Posts
    446
    Quote Originally Posted by julianne
    I agree that you can't blame all the ills of the todays world on lack of prayer and corporal punishment in schools.

    There were equally heinous acts being committed in the "good ol' days"---- the major difference is that people didn't talk about them, and media wasn't as prevalent as it is today. Back in the good old days, people were still brutally murdered, children were silently forced to live with repeatedly being sexually abused, and violence was not a rare occurrence.

    Although I do think that todays youth sometimes lack a certain respect for life, which is evident in this story, I wouldn't place blame on the schools. Their job is to educate, not instill morals or values. It is parents who are lacking in instilling these qualities in their kids.
    The only thing I would add to this statement would be the qualifier "some" in regards to "today's youth". And like the other previous poster wrote, God most certainly is allowed in schools...schools are just not allowed to force religion on anyone now. But students can and do pray whenever they please.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    4,542
    It all starts in the home people!!! You are a product of your up-bringing. Parents today are toooooo busy to parent.. They rather be out there making the all mighty dollar or competing with the Joneses... Case in point my neighbor who is always at work and her kids just do whatever they want because mom is too busy to be a mom so she brings them both ( ages 10 & 15) home brand new razor cell phones at over $200 each...why? Because it makes her feel less guilty. I am starting to wish we could all be AMISH...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by Lili
    Being one of those "older folks," I have watched what is happening for many years. When I was in school we had the flag salute and said the Lord's Prayer. When prayer was eliminated we had a moment of silence. Parents and teachers were allowed to inflict punishment. I saw the "Board of Education" used and believe me, I never wanted it used on me! And most of those who got it learned a lesson. When my kids were in school I went in and signed a consent form ... whack 'em if they need it. They never needed it, but I believe it would have been used if necessary.

    Now a teacher wouldn't even think of such punishment, they even have to be afraid of hugging a small child who may never get hugs at home because someone might jump to conclusions. What a sick world.

    I recently received an email, I am going to share it here.
    All the recent school shootings should be added and all the needless crimes that are filling our news every day.

    Dear God:

    Why didn't you save the school children at . . . . ?

    Moses Lake, Washington 2/2/96
    Bethel, Alaska 2/19/97
    Pearl, Mississippi 10/1/97
    West Paducah , Kentucky 12/1/97
    Stamp, Arkansas 12/15/97
    Jonesboro, Arkansas 3/24/98
    Edinboro, Pennsylvania 4/24/98
    Fayetteville, Tennessee 5/19/98
    Springfield, Oregon 5/21/98
    Richmond, Virginia 6/15/98
    Littleton, Colorado 4/20/99
    Taber, Alberta, Canada 5/28/99
    Conyers, Georgia 5/20/99
    Deming, New Mexico 11/19/99
    Fort Gibson, Oklahoma 12/6/99
    Santee, California 3/ 5/01 and
    El Cajon, California 3/22/01?

    Sincerely,
    Concerned Student

    -----------------------------------------------------

    Reply:

    Dear Concerned Student:


    I am not allowed in schools.



    Sincerely,
    God

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    How did this get started?...

    -----------------

    Let's see,
    I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained
    she didn't want any prayer in our schools.



    And we said, OK.

    ------------------

    Then, someone said you better not

    read the Bible in school,
    the Bible that says
    "thou shalt not kill,
    thou shalt not steal,
    and love your neighbors as yourself,"



    And we said, OK...

    -----------------

    Dr. Benjamin Spock said
    we shouldn't spank our children
    when they misbehaved
    because their little personalities
    would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem.
    And we said,
    an expert should know what he's talking about



    so we won't spank them anymore..

    ------------------

    Then someone said
    teachers and principals better not
    discipline our children when they misbehave.
    And the school administrators said
    no faculty member in this school
    better touch a student when they misbehave
    because we don't want any bad publicity,
    and we surely don't want to be sued.



    And we accepted their reasoning...

    ------------------

    Then someone said,
    let's let our daughters have abortions if they want,
    and they won't even have to tell their parents.



    And we said, that's a grand idea...

    ------------------

    Then some wise school board member said,
    since boys will be boys
    and they're going to do it anyway,
    let's give our sons all the condoms they want,
    so they can have all the fun they desire,
    and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school.



    And we said, that's another great idea...

    ------------------

    Then some of our top elected officials said
    it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs.



    And we said,



    it doesn't matter what anybody, including the President,



    does in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good....

    ------------------

    And someone else took that appreciation a step further
    and published pictures of nude children
    and then stepped further still by
    making them available on the Internet.



    And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....

    ------------------

    And the entertainment industry said,
    let's make TV shows and movies that promote
    profanity, violence and illicit sex...
    And let's record music that encourages
    rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...



    And we said,



    it's just entertainment



    and it has no adverse effect



    and nobody takes it seriously anyway,



    so go right ahead.

    ------------------

    Now we're asking ourselves



    why our children have no conscience,



    why they don't know right from wrong,



    and why it doesn't bother them to



    kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.

    ------------------

    Undoubtedly,



    if we thought about it long and hard enough,
    we could figure it out.



    I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...
    "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"
    So...back in the good old days, there were no murders? Or sin? Wow, cool. And every person who was forced in school to recite the Lord's Prayer truly believed in those words and lived their lives accordingly? As opposed to choosing to privately express their faith?

    These are scary times, I agree. But everyt time someting bad happens, I keep hearing the "Well, we used have God in school" like that's automatically the answer. When people are scared, they often turn to faith. It gives them something to hold on to beyond this world. But forcing your religious viewpoint down someone's throat by way of a government institution in the Land of the Free just ain't what the Founding Fathers wanted.

    Back in the olden days, they also did a few other things. Segregation. Sexism. Communist witch-hunting. As Billy Joel said, the good old days weren't always good.

    We have a president who preaches those very same values mentioned above, who has been "solving" our problems through a bloody, endless, pointless war. To me, that says saying prayers and preaching the faith doesn't necessarly solve anything. Not if someone's core values are corrupt.

    I do agree about our pop culture being violent and souless at times, btw...it's sad and frustrating.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    2,195
    Nope, it has nothing to do with not having prayer in schools or a childs upbringing. I know parents who were the best of the best and their son blew his wifes face off. It's just plain evil. And, it's getting worse all the time.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    21,439
    From May 2014:

    http://homicide.latimes.com/post/pas...year-old-girl/

    Jonathan Banks was sentenced to 75 years to life and ordered to pay $3,724.38 in restitution for the shooting death of Kaitlyn Avila.

    On Nov. 9, 2009, a jury convicted Banks on one count of first-degree murder and two counts of attempted murder.

    Banks’ co-defendant, Laron Lee Larrimore, 29, was sentenced Dec. 10, 2009, to 72 years to life after being convicted in April of one count each of second-degree murder and attempted murder.



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