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The Killing Season - Websleuths

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  1. #1
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    Does anyone remember IF LHP ever got her check?

    My memory on the request for money from Patsy, by LHP, is dim.

    Could or would someone give me a source for how LHP's request for money was phrased?

    As I recall PR has said some words about when she spotted the Rambling Some Notes on the stairs that she 'thought' it might be from LHP.

    I cannot remember how the request for MONEY was made, or the complete reason it was asked for by LHP. Also wonder IF she ever was 'helped' in getting IT.

    JR's kindness toward housekeepers, as I review mentally through all the years of posting here, was the story told by an ex housekeeper who recalled that as he walked past her he pulled the running vacuum cord from the wall, because of the noise.

    I would think that she would be vacuuming during the week day, when most folks are GONE to work. Just a guess on my part.

    Wonder how much the R's paid a loyal housekeeper, what would the going rate have been then, and HOW did they find LHP? What might the amount have been that LHP had made a special request for, just prior to Christmas of 1996?

    Anyone remember any of this?

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    .

    .
    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""

  2. #2
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    I think te amount was $2500. I have no idea how the original request was made, though.
    Above is my opinion only

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brefie
    I think te amount was $2500. I have no idea how the original request was made, though.
    It was made via a phone call on Dec 24th.

    -Tea

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camper
    My memory on the request for money from Patsy, by LHP, is dim.

    Could or would someone give me a source for how LHP's request for money was phrased?

    As I recall PR has said some words about when she spotted the Rambling Some Notes on the stairs that she 'thought' it might be from LHP.

    I cannot remember how the request for MONEY was made, or the complete reason it was asked for by LHP. Also wonder IF she ever was 'helped' in getting IT.

    JR's kindness toward housekeepers, as I review mentally through all the years of posting here, was the story told by an ex housekeeper who recalled that as he walked past her he pulled the running vacuum cord from the wall, because of the noise.

    I would think that she would be vacuuming during the week day, when most folks are GONE to work. Just a guess on my part.

    Wonder how much the R's paid a loyal housekeeper, what would the going rate have been then, and HOW did they find LHP? What might the amount have been that LHP had made a special request for, just prior to Christmas of 1996?

    Anyone remember any of this?

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    .

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    What a tyrant!
    I have no idea how they came across LHP, maybe on the recommendation of the prior housekeeper, remember something like that..

    I think it was around $2000 like Brefie said.
    I think she wanted it for dental work...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by narlacat
    What a tyrant!
    I have no idea how they came across LHP, maybe on the recommendation of the prior housekeeper, remember something like that..

    I think it was around $2000 like Brefie said.
    I think she wanted it for dental work...
    I heard that reason, but I also heard they needed it for rent.
    Above is my opinion only

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by narlacat
    What a tyrant!
    I have no idea how they came across LHP, maybe on the recommendation of the prior housekeeper, remember something like that..

    I think it was around $2000 like Brefie said.
    I think she wanted it for dental work...
    The amount was for $2000.00 for rent dental work other bills. LHP had worked for Merry Maids. She did work for the Ramseys through Merry Maids. Eventually they hired her away for 3 days a week from Merry Maids. I have often wondered myself if LHP ever got the check. How they made it through Christmas that year.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by coloradokares
    The amount was for $2000.00 for rent dental work other bills. LHP had worked for Merry Maids. She did work for the Ramseys through Merry Maids. Eventually they hired her away for 3 days a week from Merry Maids. I have often wondered myself if LHP ever got the check. How they made it through Christmas that year.
    O my,me too.With PR throwing blame her way,it's unlikely she gave her the money.I think her hub needed it for dental work,too,I think in ST's book it said he had to eat soft food for xmas.Wonder if she even got her last check from the R's.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  8. #8
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    Hmmm

    Thanks everyone.

    Unlikely to get a fast appt with a dentist over Christmas/New Year Holidays. My guess would be that LHP had a very urgent need for the money and it wasn't dental at that moment in time.

    DO WE know if LHP ever verified PR's words on the money amount or need for it, in the media or interviews?

    I would venture to guess that IF I had had that request, or had a boat load of money, and valued LHP, I would have written a check ASAP and called her to come and git it. I would most vertainly have called LHP to discuss it. Color it strange that there was no response by PR, or at least none that WE ever seem to have heard about. Huh?

    coloradokares. thank you for the Merry Maid information. Do you know if they are able to help the people they employ with money issues? Do they do background checks, or furnish uniforms for their employees?

    JMO8778, I got a giggle out of this part of your tagline,
    (I hate it when ppl tell me what I hear,LOL)


    Goes big time for the TV news commentators who tell us what the speaker just said immediately after we had listened to them.

    .
    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""

  9. #9
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    Just my opinion, but I think the phone call from LHP requesting money was the trigger for the cover-up of the murder. The Ramsey's left no money and Patsy was expecting a note from LHP. LHP was evidently desperate for money that Christmas - whatever reason she gave. The Ramsey's came home Christmas night and were to leave early next morning. When was LHP going to catch them to get the check? I believe *THIS* is what suggested the kidnap scenario as a way to cover the murder. The Ramsey's first strategy was to point the crime at LHP and her husband, and her husband's friend (two gentlemen) who had done some work for the Ramseys just prior to Christmas, work that involved them going to the winecellar. The location of the RN at the base of the stairs (where Patsy expected LHP to put a note) was designed to point to LHP and the location of the body was designed to point to the last people who had been in the wine-cellar, LHP's husband + friend.

    The scenario went something like:


    [The child is dead. John and Patsy have a problem: What do we do now? Report it? Dispose of her and plead ignorance? Frame someone else?]

    After a while Patsy remembers that their housekeeper has a motive - "Linda! She needs the money!" says Patsy.
    "What?" asks John.
    "Linda needs the money for dental work!" Patsy explains. They could try to frame it on Linda. Or better still, Linda's husband and his friend who had come around to do some odd jobs in preparation for Christmas just a few days ago.
    The penny dropped for John. "Of course!" he said. "Linda!"
    Their housekeeper had approached Patsy for a loan of money - for dental work, she said, but in fact her son was wayward and her husband... probably an alcoholic.
    It was a desperate plan, but it was all that John and Patsy had at that moment. They both agreed. They couldn't just report the child as dead.
    John composed himself and thought the matter through.
    "But why?" he wondered aloud. "Why would she kill Jonbenet?" He answered his own question. "Not Linda. Her husband and his buddy. A group of them."
    "The motive has to be money, though," said Patsy.
    John was pacing and thinking aloud.
    "OK," he said. "The motive is money. So they kidnap her!"
    "But then what? Why do they kill her?" Patsy asked, trying to fill in the plot.
    John mumbled, pacing, looking for a scheme that might - just might - hold water.
    "Alright. They kidnap her. And..."
    "They can leave a note..." says Patsy. "Linda leaves notes. You know, John. Linda leaves those notes."
    "Can you do her handwriting?"
    "Maybe. We can put the note downstairs. We find it and think its from Linda but its a ransom note!"
    John didn't like it, but what other chance did they have?
    "And they warn us, in the note," he starts, "They warn us not to call the police or anybody or she'll die. But we do call the police. Which is reasonable. We call the police and call Fleet over and... and so they kill her. That explains why they kill her!"
    "So we write a ransom note?" said Patsy. "A kidnapping. Its a kidnapping..."
    "For the money," said John. "Yes. A kidnapping for money."
    "Its a kidnapping, but it becomes a murder, yeah?"
    "Yeah...."
    "O John, do you think it will work? Really?"
    "What else can we do?"
    "Linda asked for the money. So her husband and his friend kidnap her... They didn't like you John. We can point it at them..."
    "They kidnap her. But they kill her because we don't follow instructions. We ring the police. We call people over. So they kill her. Molest her and kill her."
    Patsy was terrified.
    John was still pacing. He paced across to dim the lights, composed himself and spoke softer.
    "Alright then. Because they have a key. No sign of an intruder. That will point at them straight away, yes?"
    Patsy agreed it would. "She was coming around, John. For the money. Before we leave."
    "And we can put the body down in the basement," John suggested. "In the winecellar. They were in there the other day. They were the last people in there. We can put her down in the winecellar. That'll connect them too..."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camper
    Thanks everyone.

    Unlikely to get a fast appt with a dentist over Christmas/New Year Holidays. My guess would be that LHP had a very urgent need for the money and it wasn't dental at that moment in time.

    DO WE know if LHP ever verified PR's words on the money amount or need for it, in the media or interviews?

    I would venture to guess that IF I had had that request, or had a boat load of money, and valued LHP, I would have written a check ASAP and called her to come and git it. I would most vertainly have called LHP to discuss it. Color it strange that there was no response by PR, or at least none that WE ever seem to have heard about. Huh?

    coloradokares. thank you for the Merry Maid information. Do you know if they are able to help the people they employ with money issues? Do they do background checks, or furnish uniforms for their employees?

    JMO8778, I got a giggle out of this part of your tagline,
    (I hate it when ppl tell me what I hear,LOL)


    Goes big time for the TV news commentators who tell us what the speaker just said immediately after we had listened to them.

    .
    I don't know if Merry Maids funishes uniforms or not. I really doubut that they'd of helped their employees financially. Merry Maids is pretty big out here though.


  11. #11
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    LOL, amen Camper.BTW,I've always liked the camping scene in your sig as well
    I'm in a rush today,but to make it short,in DOI,PR says she was supposed to leave a check out on the counter for LHP that morning,and she was going to come by and pick it up while they were gone.(whenever she could,I guess).She said she needed the money for rent and her hub's dental work.(we don't know how much of that is true of course).PR was going to recover the amt from installments in her paychecks.
    This is another red flag to me;one more reason I think PR never went to bed that night.I think 99% of us would have written the check and left it out the night before.I know it's easy to forget things like that,but PR just throws one more thing to do in the short time crunch that morning,and it all adds up to being unbelievable to me.(What,like she really thought LHP would let herself in at night and leave a note on the stairs about the check? ..Like the R's wouldn't mind her coming in any time of the day or night,even when theyre home and aren't expecting her?I would think she would have called instead).
    If she were a loyal employee of MM,they might offer a pay advance,I don't know though.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778
    LOL, amen Camper.BTW,I've always liked the camping scene in your sig as well
    I'm in a rush today,but to make it short,in DOI,PR says she was supposed to leave a check out on the counter for LHP that morning,and she was going to come by and pick it up while they were gone.(whenever she could,I guess).She said she needed the money for rent and her hub's dental work.(we don't know how much of that is true of course).PR was going to recover the amt from installments in her paychecks.
    This is another red flag to me;one more reason I think PR never went to bed that night.I think 99% of us would have written the check and left it out the night before.I know it's easy to forget things like that,but PR just throws one more thing to do in the short time crunch that morning,and it all adds up to being unbelievable to me.(What,like she really thought LHP would let herself in at night and leave a note on the stairs about the check? ..Like the R's wouldn't mind her coming in any time of the day or night,even when theyre home and aren't expecting her?I would think she would have called instead).
    If she were a loyal employee of MM,they might offer a pay advance,I don't know though.
    I could be wrong in the way I read this. The Ramseys hired her away from Merry Maids. I don't think she worked for they anymore and had not for quite some time....I could be wrong. You know how it is when you read the written word and see hired away from. and take that to mean she no longer did any assignments for Merry Maids.

  13. #13
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    I don't recall where, but I think I read she worked for the R's 3 days a week.I don't think it was ever said if she still worked for MM or not.Most ppl I know that do housecleaning work for more than one family or place,if they aren't there fulltime for that one.Could be that she was only working PT overall though.
    Last edited by JMO8778; 11-01-2006 at 11:40 PM.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  14. #14
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    From DOI...

    The police ask Patsy these same questions about who might have been angry or acting strangely, and she begins to think about our cleaning lady. Linda Hoffmann-Pugh had called Patsy a couple of days before Christmas, very distraught and in tears. Linda said her sister, who was also her landlord, was going to evict her if she didn't come up with the past- due rent. She asked Patsy if she could borrow twenty-five hundred dollars to cover it. Patsy had consoled Linda and agreed to lend her the money. In fact, Patsy had intended to leave the check for Linda on the kitchen counter before leaving for Michigan; Linda would let herself in the house and pick it up while we were gone for the holidays.
    Patsy remembers that her mother, Nedra Paugh, had said that Linda had remarked to her at one time, "JonBenet is so pretty; aren't you afraid that someone might kidnap her?" Now those comments seem strangely menacing.
    Finding the phone number in her digital Rolodex, Patsy tells a police officer where Linda lives in Ft. Lupton, Colorado. Patsy later tells me she was thinking, If it's Linda, it's okay, because she is a good, sweet person. She is just upset. She may need the money, but she won't hurt JonBenet.
    The police tell us they will arrange for the Ft. Lupton police to drive by Linda's house to see if they notice anything unusual, but they don't want to alert anyone there that they are being watched.


    ...and from the U.S. 11th Circuit Court of Appeals HOFFMAN-PUGH v RAMSEY
    Hoffmann-Pugh alleges in her complaint that the statements in this passage are false, that the Ramseys know that they are false, and that they were made with the intent to create an impression that Hoffmann-Pugh is a suspect in the murder. Hoffmann-Pugh claims that her sister was not going to evict her and that she did not make the above statement to Nedra Paugh or anyone else.

  15. #15
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    Hmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah
    From DOI...

    The police ask Patsy these same questions about who might have been angry or acting strangely, and she begins to think about our cleaning lady. Linda Hoffmann-Pugh had called Patsy a couple of days before Christmas, very distraught and in tears. Linda said her sister, who was also her landlord, was going to evict her if she didn't come up with the past- due rent. She asked Patsy if she could borrow twenty-five hundred dollars to cover it. Patsy had consoled Linda and agreed to lend her the money. In fact, Patsy had intended to leave the check for Linda on the kitchen counter before leaving for Michigan; Linda would let herself in the house and pick it up while we were gone for the holidays.
    Patsy remembers that her mother, Nedra Paugh, had said that Linda had remarked to her at one time, "JonBenet is so pretty; aren't you afraid that someone might kidnap her?" Now those comments seem strangely menacing.
    Finding the phone number in her digital Rolodex, Patsy tells a police officer where Linda lives in Ft. Lupton, Colorado. Patsy later tells me she was thinking, If it's Linda, it's okay, because she is a good, sweet person. She is just upset. She may need the money, but she won't hurt JonBenet.
    The police tell us they will arrange for the Ft. Lupton police to drive by Linda's house to see if they notice anything unusual, but they don't want to alert anyone there that they are being watched.


    ...and from the U.S. 11th Circuit Court of Appeals HOFFMAN-PUGH v RAMSEY
    Hoffmann-Pugh alleges in her complaint that the statements in this passage are false, that the Ramseys know that they are false, and that they were made with the intent to create an impression that Hoffmann-Pugh is a suspect in the murder. Hoffmann-Pugh claims that her sister was not going to evict her and that she did not make the above statement to Nedra Paugh or anyone else.




    --->>>Thank you Nehemiah, these words from your post, certainly put another little log on the R's continuing bon fire of un truths.

    Wonder if LHP and family still live in the sisters home, and if so they are probably still friends too. I am thinking/guessing that any words that LHP spoke in private to PR, were twisted to fit the R BIG PICTURE puzzle. JR I am guessing probably just stood slack jawed and believed it, er, another huh coming up and a hmmm.

    .

    .
    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""



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