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  1. #1
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    RDI theories

    UKGuy hasn't been around for a while, but his very convincing posts on the subject have led me to abandon any toilet rage scenario as a possible cause for parental rage on that fatal night. The reasons:

    1) If toileting issues caused parental rage, then the last thing a parent staging the scene would do was to leave her in wet underwear, even if it was 'only' from post-mortem release. Wouldn't removing any signs of urine have been at the top of the parents' staging list?

    2) If toilet rage caused Patsy to snap and lose it, wouldn't JB's bladder have been empty by the time she was carried down into the basement shortly afterward? But there was enough urine in her bladder to have stained both her underwear and the front leg part of the longjohns.

    I'd be interested in other RDIs' opinions on that.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    UKGuy hasn't been around for a while, but his very convincing posts on the subject have led me to abandon any toilet rage scenario as a possible cause for parental rage on that fatal night. The reasons:

    1) If toileting issues caused parental rage, then the last thing a parent staging the scene would do was to leave her in wet underwear, even if it was 'only' from post-mortem release. Wouldn't removing any signs of urine have been at the top of the parents' staging list?

    2) If toilet rage caused Patsy to snap and lose it, wouldn't JB's bladder have been empty by the time she was carried down into the basement shortly afterward? But there was enough urine in her bladder to have stained both her underwear and the front leg part of the longjohns.



    I'd be interested in other RDIs' opinions on that.
    What we know is JonBenet was wiped down. We know that there were obvious things that were like a neon light flashing at the autopsy. Either staging of or actual sexual abuse real likely both. We know the underwear were obviously changed. Perhaps it went something like this. Panicked state of mind. What have I done What do I do now. Ok I will clean her up and change her. Oh no all her clean panties are packed. Got to be Wednesdays pantys. Wednesdays child is full of grace..... No one will suspect. I'll Make this look like an intruder broke in. Ok thats taken care of no one will ever suspect anything ok Body is stashed away. No time once the police are in the house to go up find more underwear and clean her up again. We don't know it happened that way, or not or a few detours along the way to the body being carried upstairs by John. One day we all hope to have all the answers. For now that she had recently wet herself does not eliminate the possibility of post mortem bladder emptying.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by coloradokares
    What we know is JonBenet was wiped down. We know that there were obvious things that were like a neon light flashing at the autopsy. Either staging of or actual sexual abuse real likely both. We know the underwear were obviously changed. Perhaps it went something like this. Panicked state of mind. What have I done What do I do now. Ok I will clean her up and change her. Oh no all her clean panties are packed. Got to be Wednesdays pantys. Wednesdays child is full of grace..... No one will suspect. I'll Make this look like an intruder broke in. Ok thats taken care of no one will ever suspect anything ok Body is stashed away. No time once the police are in the house to go up find more underwear and clean her up again. We don't know it happened that way, or not or a few detours along the way to the body being carried upstairs by John. One day we all hope to have all the answers. For now that she had recently wet herself does not eliminate the possibility of post mortem bladder emptying.
    Was there a second bladder release due to the garroting?

    Just a thought. Very little blood (teaspoonful if that) in the head injury. So I figure that the garrote staging must have been done prior or very soon after the head injury.

    Which scenario makes more sense with the evidence? Correct me if I've got the wrong evidence. Does this tell us something?

    RDI:
    1. bladder release
    2. bed wetting rage theory head injury
    3. wipe down and change underwear
    4. garrote staging
    5. another bladder release
    6. write the note

    IDI:
    1. write note
    2. garroting
    3. bladder release
    4. head injury
    5. wipe down and change underwear
    6. another bladder release?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rupert
    Was there a second bladder release due to the garroting?

    Just a thought. Very little blood (teaspoonful if that) in the head injury. So I figure that the garrote staging must have been done prior or very soon after the head injury.

    Which scenario makes more sense with the evidence? Correct me if I've got the wrong evidence. Does this tell us something?

    RDI:
    1. bladder release
    2. bed wetting rage theory head injury
    3. wipe down and change underwear
    4. garrote staging
    5. another bladder release
    6. write the note

    IDI:
    1. write note
    2. garroting
    3. bladder release
    4. head injury
    5. wipe down and change underwear
    6. another bladder release?
    Why should an intruder write a ransom note and later garrote the child? This makes no sense whatsoever, don't you think so?

    And remember that the toilet rage theory is just one of several RDI theories.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    Why should an intruder write a ransom note and later garrote the child? This makes no sense whatsoever, don't you think so?

    And remember that the toilet rage theory is just one of several RDI theories.
    Assume for a moment that the scream was heard coming from the basement...it wasn't imagined or anything like that...IMO, I think it did come from there,and MS heard it,as well as her husb. heard the metal on concrete sound..but for some reason she changed her story;either she was hushed up or afraid to get involved.(ie-she was afraid it could be said since she heard the scream, then she was there...etc.)
    Anyway,if it did,how could that still be toilet rage? It doesn't seem likely.A sexual assualt seems more likely,since JB's underwear was changed(what happened to the ones she was wearing,were they disposed of and if so,why?),fibers found in her crotch area,the fact she was wiped down..yet left with urine still on her(unless that wasn't noticed),and the flashlight left on the counter seems to match JB's head wound,which the R's were known to have one like,but say they don't recognize it(also the flashlight was left with no fingerprints on it,and a flashlight might be needed for the basement area..for someone wanting to use to carry out an assault in the dark).
    IMO,all these things lead to a sexual assault in the basement,with the flashlight as the weapon inflicting the head wound,esp since the light was found in the kitchen area with no prints on it(ie-someone moved it from basement,where it was used,since they didn't want to leave it there if that's what she was hit with and it was too big to hide,which may not have been the case with the tape and rope,if there was any left).Did JB's scream lead to her being hit with the flashlight?Was she trying to run to a phone to call for help,or to a neighbor's house, and had to be stopped?(so maybe she was grabbed by the collar and strangled,then hit with the flashlight?).If she was hit from behind(was it proven which way she was hit?),then it seems possible she was trying to run for help and was stopped by being strangled and hit over the head.Any thoughts?I just don't see any other scenerio likely.
    Last edited by JMO8778; 11-05-2006 at 08:14 PM.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  6. #6
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    Colorado
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rupert
    Was there a second bladder release due to the garroting?

    Just a thought. Very little blood (teaspoonful if that) in the head injury. So I figure that the garrote staging must have been done prior or very soon after the head injury.

    Which scenario makes more sense with the evidence? Correct me if I've got the wrong evidence. Does this tell us something?

    RDI:
    1. bladder release
    2. bed wetting rage theory head injury
    3. wipe down and change underwear
    4. garrote staging
    5. another bladder release
    6. write the note

    IDI:
    1. write note
    2. garroting
    3. bladder release
    4. head injury
    5. wipe down and change underwear
    6. another bladder release?
    WHO KNOWS!! I wasn't there you weren't there. But what makes increasing sense to me when not a single intruder can be placed there. be it one bladder release on prior to death one after......is Ramseys were there. I am not set on the potty rage thing. What I know is they were there. To this point intruder is not proven in any way. Lots of contradictions to the Ramsey story and testimony. They either did it or had concrete enough knowledge who did that it required their silence and staging cooperation.

  7. #7
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    Location
    Ceti Alpha V
    Posts
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    Very little blood (teaspoonful if that) in the head injury. So I figure that the garrote staging must have been done prior or very soon after the head injury.
    Firstly, there was quite a lot of blood in the head injury, including a scalp hemorrhage the size of a chair doily. Secondly, the pathologists said there could have been an hour between being hit and being strangled.

    RDI:
    1. bladder release
    2. bed wetting rage theory head injury
    3. wipe down and change underwear
    4. garrote staging
    5. another bladder release
    6. write the note
    Makes plenty of sense to me.

    Why should an intruder write a ransom note and later garrote the child? This makes no sense whatsoever, don't you think so?
    Not only that! This "intruder" was too stupid to even get her back to a place where he felt safe and could do his horrific deeds at his leisure, like Dennis Dechaine, David Westerfield, Richard Allen Davis, and I could go on and on.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.



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