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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    75

    Wine Cellar Top Door Latch

    Did I read correctly that Fleet White looked in the wine cellar and did not notice JonBenet, then a police officer looked in and didn't see her either, yet John later went to open the door and it resisted because the top latch was secured? How could that be? Who would have put the latch on the door later that morning?

    IMO, it had to have been John. He went to get the family mail and was gone an hour and twenty minutes. When he returned, he sat at the kitchen table and read it. Where did he have to go to get the mail?
    ...the truth is never far behind, I've learned my lessons well...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    2,970
    Quote Originally Posted by calicocat
    Did I read correctly that Fleet White looked in the wine cellar and did not notice JonBenet, then a police officer looked in and didn't see her either, yet John later went to open the door and it resisted because the top latch was secured? How could that be? Who would have put the latch on the door later that morning?

    IMO, it had to have been John. He went to get the family mail and was gone an hour and twenty minutes. When he returned, he sat at the kitchen table and read it. Where did he have to go to get the mail?
    calicocat,

    Fleet looked in the wine room and did not see JonBenet's body. The police officer never looked in the wine room.There was a latch on the wine room door,I don't recall John having a problem with it.John did not leave the house to get the mail,there was a slot in the door,which deposited the mail on the floor,although he did go through his mail,claiming he thought there may be something from the kidnapper.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    75
    Here's the information I read about the mail:

    Soon the only police official remaining was Detective Arndt, along with John and Patsy and the family friends. T hen even John left to pick up the family's mail, and was gone approximately an hour and 20 minutes. When John returned Detective Arndt noted that he sat in the kitchen and opened the mail. John still remained in a room by himself not making contact with Patsy or any of the friends who stayed to console the family.

    http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums...php?t1588.html

    and the information about Fleet White:

    Fleet went town to the basement. He noticed that the lights were on. He found a small piece of glass from a broken window in a room used for model trains. In checking the latch for the window he discovered that it was unlocked, but closed. Fleet also noticed a blue suitcase was sitting underneath the window. He continued with his search by opening every cupboard and door. He opened the door to the wine cellar, reached inside, but could not find the light switch and could not see inside the room. The wind cellar is completely formed by cement and has no windows. Finding no evidence of anyone entering or leaving from the basement area and no trace of JonBenet, Fleet went back upstairs.

    (Same website)

    and about the policeman, I'll post that information as soon as I find it.
    ...the truth is never far behind, I've learned my lessons well...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,970
    Quote Originally Posted by calicocat
    Here's the information I read about the mail:

    Soon the only police official remaining was Detective Arndt, along with John and Patsy and the family friends. T hen even John left to pick up the family's mail, and was gone approximately an hour and 20 minutes. When John returned Detective Arndt noted that he sat in the kitchen and opened the mail. John still remained in a room by himself not making contact with Patsy or any of the friends who stayed to console the family.

    http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums...php?t1588.html

    and the information about Fleet White:

    Fleet went town to the basement. He noticed that the lights were on. He found a small piece of glass from a broken window in a room used for model trains. In checking the latch for the window he discovered that it was unlocked, but closed. Fleet also noticed a blue suitcase was sitting underneath the window. He continued with his search by opening every cupboard and door. He opened the door to the wine cellar, reached inside, but could not find the light switch and could not see inside the room. The wind cellar is completely formed by cement and has no windows. Finding no evidence of anyone entering or leaving from the basement area and no trace of JonBenet, Fleet went back upstairs.

    (Same website)

    and about the policeman, I'll post that information as soon as I find it.
    Calicocat,

    I'm not sure why your responding with links.You're the one who asked the questions,and I answered.

    All the questions you asked are common knowledge:

    Fleet did not see JonBenet's body in the wine cellar.

    The police never looked in the wine room.

    John never left the house to collect the mail.

    I guess I'm confused as to why you are supplying me with links ... when you were the one to ask the questions?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NSW Australia
    Posts
    9,183
    Noone put a latch on the door that morning.
    Yes Fleet looked in the wine cellar and didn't see JBR's body.

    French, the Police Officer didn't open the wine cellar door.

    JR didn't leave the house to get the mail, like Capps has said.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    75
    Hi Capps,

    I was asking how the door became latched after others had previously looked inside the room. Because your information did not agree with mine, I was showing you where I got my information from. And, where did you learn about the mail slot in the door? Are you saying that John never left the house for the hour and twenty minutes?
    ...the truth is never far behind, I've learned my lessons well...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,970
    Calicocat,

    Fair enough ...

    You stated in your first post that John tried opening the wine cellar door,but the door resisted because of the door latch.I stated that I didn't recall hearing about that,so I don't have anything to add to that.

    The mail was delivered into the door slot.There was a strange character by the name of Colfax,who some how got imbedded into the Ramsey saga ... for reasons,only known to him,he forced a burning piece of paper into the Ramsey's house,through the mail slot in the door while it was unoccupied,and started a small fire in the entrance hall. That is when it was realized,that that was how the mail was delivered.

    As far a John being unaccounted for,for an hour and twenty minutes,that was the story that got out in the media ... but I included this snippet from Det. Linda Arndt's deposition (courtesy of FFJ):

    "24 Q. And didn't you indicate that it was
    25 sometime between 10:40 and 12:00 noon that John Ramsey
    Page 129
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1 left to pick up his mail or that you lost track of him
    2 but later saw him reading the mail and assumed he had
    3 left to pick up the mail during that period you had
    4 lost track of him?
    5 A. It has been widely reported that -
    6 Q. I'm not talking about widely reported. I'm
    7 talking about what you know.
    8 A. What I know? Okay. Ask me again then.
    9 Q. I'll ask you again. Isn't it your
    10 recollection that it was between 10:40 and 12:00 noon
    11 that you lost track of John Ramsey, and when you later
    12 saw him opening mail you assumed he had gone out to get
    13 the mail during that period you had lost track of him?
    14 A. As I told you when you asked before, I
    15 didn't personally watch him every minute from about
    16 10:40 until noon.
    17 Q. Would you read back the question?
    18 (Record read by reporter as requested.)
    19 THE DEPONENT: I'm sorry. What did I not
    20 answer?
    21 Q. (BY MR. HALABY) Are you stating that you
    22 never lost track of him during that period?
    23 A. I think I just told you that I personally
    24 couldn't account for every minute.
    25 Does that mean that you lost track of him
    Page 130
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1 then?
    2 A. You could interpret it that way.
    3 Q. All right. And during that period that you
    4 lost track of him, did you later conclude what he had
    5 done during that period in terms of going to pick up
    6 the mail?
    7 A. When I didn't personally monitor him the
    8 whole time, what was the other half?
    9 Q. Did you conclude that during that period
    10 you'd lost track of him that he had gone out to pick up
    11 the mail?
    12 A. When I didn't personally monitor him, I
    13 didn't know how he had gotten his mail.
    14 Q. And did you then put two and two together
    15 and believe that he had gone out to get the mail?
    16 A. I thought he had gotten mail by stepping
    17 outside.
    18 Q. You didn't believe somebody else had picked
    19 up the mail and delivered it to him inside the house?
    20 A. I didn't know.
    21 Q. But what you had concluded was that he had
    22 gone out to get the mail, correct?
    23 A. I thought he had got - yes."


    Seems Like Det. Arndt tried to dance around that whole situation. From what I'm reading,it seems that Arndt wasn't paying much attention to John,and probably didn't know how long he was gone,and just assumed he was gone for awhile,because she saw him reading his mail. If she wasn't monitoring him every minute,then there is a possibility,he may have been gone for 15 min.,30 min.or an hour and twenty minutes ... she can't be sure. I think that's why she danced around it a bit,because it sure makes her look pretty bad,that she wasn't closely monitoring some one she should have been.IMO.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Detroit 'Burb
    Posts
    2,832

    Bonita Papers A Long Read

    It's too much to read in one sitting, but has some additional information, such as the fact of more fibers than we thought, some under her arms.

    Why would there be fibers under her arms?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,554
    Quote Originally Posted by capps
    Seems Like Det. Arndt tried to dance around that whole situation. From what I'm reading,it seems that Arndt wasn't paying much attention to John,and probably didn't know how long he was gone,and just assumed he was gone for awhile,because she saw him reading his mail. If she wasn't monitoring him every minute,then there is a possibility,he may have been gone for 15 min.,30 min.or an hour and twenty minutes ... she can't be sure. I think that's why she danced around it a bit,because it sure makes her look pretty bad,that she wasn't closely monitoring some one she should have been.IMO.
    What on earth was LA thinking?I would have immediately q'd why the family wasn't going nuts that the supposed 'kidnappers' didn't call by 10am like they said they would.I think I would have been on the Rams like stink on **** about it.I would have followed JR around on his heels and never let him out of my sight,much less check the house alone.
    While I believe she assumed correctly that the R's were involved once JB's body was found,I don't think she has to have kids of her own to notice before that something was amiss.
    I'm also perplexed as to why she (later on)got away with making threats twds herself and others,in regards to saying she would 'take everyone out' if she got pulled off the investigation.The last time someone threatened me,it landed the person a week in the mental part of the local hospital.Even if it wasn't thought that she was really a threat,she shouldnt have been allowed to get away with the threats.
    Sry, but it just makes me angry when I see an investigation that involves a child become so completely botched,altho that is to say it involved a lot of ppl in Boulder,not just LA.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    1,812
    Linda Arndt is or was, to say the very least, bizarre.

    When you are being questioned by a detective about a very serious nature, in response to a direct question, who answers "Well, it has been widely reported that...." ????

    That is so strange to me. Especially since she's a detective herself!!!


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,970
    Quote Originally Posted by julianne
    Linda Arndt is or was, to say the very least, bizarre.

    When you are being questioned by a detective about a very serious nature, in response to a direct question, who answers "Well, it has been widely reported that...." ????

    That is so strange to me. Especially since she's a detective herself!!!
    Julianne,

    If you haven't already,please read the whole deposition,it's a very frustrating read at times,with the way Arndt answers the questions.There is another interview with Arndt,although I couldn't tell you at this moment where you can find it,where she is talking about being stalked by one of the Ramsey friends,again she was dancing all over the place,when the interviewer was just trying to understand in what way she was being stalked ... another frustrating interview.

    With that being said ... I do feel bad for Arndt being left alone to handle all that was going on the day JonBenet was found....but she does come across kind of strange.



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