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  1. #1

    Ned's Final Theory-Lou Smit are you still reading here?

    I actually think we are all closer today to solving this case then we were years ago and here’s why:

    John Mark Karr may have helped this case more than he knows. To me, the very idea of an intruder now is ridiculous. Too many variables for getting in and out of the house and little to NO evidence to suggest an intruder. Henry Lee PROVED that you CAN get degraded DNA off panties straight from the manufacturer. That’s HUGE folks! The DNA is a mute point. It’s basically worthless in this case and NOT conclusive of an intruder. Because of it degraded state, it can NEVER at this point identify anyone. It can only be used to exclude people. But the fact is we don’t even know if it had anything to do with the crime, because it could have been there prior to it. I believe JMK has regenerated this case, and that is a good thing. We now have thousands more looking at it with fresh eyes. There were things a lot of us old time posters missed or may have not thought were as important when originally discussed. I think the biggest breakthroughs for me have been the suggestion of Klonopin and the facts surrounding the window. I have come to what I hope is my final and most understandable theory.

    The window did three things for me. It made it clear to me that John Ramsey was LYING. That the door according to him was BLOCKED by a chair and other “stuff” as he put it and that he had to actually MOVE the chair before getting into the train room where the basement window was located when he went down to the basement alone around 10am. He is VERY CLEAR on this. Neither Fleet nor detective French mention having to move items to get into that room, and even if they did WHY would they replace them to re-block the door? Doesn’t make sense. It proves to me that John Ramsey was IN the basement prior to the 911 call and to me this implicates him in the crime prior to the 911 call, which I previously did not believe. Also I can’t believe a detective would see a window opened an 8th of an inch and not note it or shut the window. It was his JOB to search for a possible way for an intruder to gain entrance in into the house. He wasn’t even looking for a child at this point, he was looking for a way in or out. Now I know the Ramsey’s want us to believe the BPD are nit wits, but this is too far of a stretch for me. This is collaborated by Fleet who also reported the window closed, but that he noticed the latch was unlocked. If he looked at that window to notice if it was unlocked or not, he surely would have noticed if it was open an 8th of an inch. John Ramsey is full of it. And now it makes complete sense why Fleet White no longer speaks to him. This account and the fact that Fleet White heard JR call out for JB before he hit the light switch in the windowless room, make Fleet White a key witness for this case. Fleet knows that Ramsey lied, WHY? Lastly what idiot would find an open window when his daughter is still presumed missing at this point and not only NOT report it, but close it and then return quietly back upstairs flipping through the mail???? Why would ANYONE be looking through their mail when they are supposedly waiting for a call from a kidnapper?? If the window was indeed open as John suggests, that means ALL THREE of them saw it open and didn’t report it. Why didn’t Lou question him on this in his interview with him? John never even suggested to Linda Ardnt that he was in the basement. If this doesn’t shout BS I don’t know what does. John Ramsey KNEW he daughter was already dead and KNEW exactly where she was.

    I have come to the conclusion based on these FACTS above that John Ramsey was involved in this crime PRIOR to the 911 call. That doesn’t mean he killed her at this point, but it does mean he was part of the cover up a lot earlier on. The interview between Lou Smit and John Ramsey PROVE to ME, John was lying. This I am now CERTAIN of.

    Now I spoke with a buddy of mine recently that knows nothing about the facts in this case, just so I could get his point of view. He raised more questions but for me started to hone in on WHO actually murdered JB and I think that is where most of us are at now. I think the majority of us have come to the conclusion it was one of the Ramsey’s, question is, which one? I think we can answer this by process of elimination, due to KNOWN evidence. If we follow the evidence, it will lead us to the killer.

    Let’s talk cover up for one minute.
    My buddy said if his wife had accidentally hurt one of their children, he may help cover for the crime, because (as many have said here before), John had already lost one daughter, Beth, JB was now gone, he wouldn’t have wanted to lose Patsy. I also believe that Patsy Ramsey is mentally ill (I will get to this later and John knew it) In fact my buddy said, it would have been the ONLY reason he could think of to help cover, is if he knew his wife was mentally ill and didn’t want to lose her too. I have long dismissed the Burke theory not because I don’t think he was capable of the blow to her head, but because I for one don’t think the Ramsey’s would have ever of taken the chance of letting him out of their site that morning or soon there after. Burke didn’t do it. It’s as simple as that. That child was ushered out of that house as quickly as possible. The Ramsey’s would have kept him close.

    I explained to my friend the garrote handle and he brought up an important observation. First of all he felt as I did that a woman would be much more likely to have used a handle for more leverage to strangle a child. A man would not have needed to tie on a piece of wood for that. I know Lou’s theory is that this was done as some sort of sex toy. But again with lack of evidence of an intruder that would leave the parents to employ the sex play and I just don’t see them doing that. We know for a fact that JB was strangled from behind and that there appeared to be a foot print on her back. Again something a woman would need to do or someone with less strength. John Ramsey would not have needed to do this. Not under any circumstances. Therefore in my book, it rules out the possibility that John Ramsey strangled JB. So we are either left with a weak intruder (JMK) would have fit the bill but we all know he wasn’t there, or a woman. Patsy is already implicated in the crime given the evidence as we know it:

    Patsy’s fibers are found on the garrote
    Patsy’s fibers on the sticky side of the duct tape
    Patsy’s fibers are found on JB
    Patsy’s fibers are found in the paint tote
    It was Patsy’s paintbrush used for the handle
    Patsy was the only one in the home that could not be excluded as the author of the note
    Patsy was dressed in the same outfit as she had on the evening before
    Patsy claimed she had never gone down in the basement that morning, yet her fibers were everywhere
    Patsy’s prints were found on the pineapple bowl
    Patsy purchased items that matched the same amount as the rope and tape (this is important to my theory later on)


    There is NO evidence that John Ramsey was anywhere near the rope, tape or crime scene.

    We only have ONE thing that may link John to JB and that is the suggestion that his shirt fibers from his collar were found on JB’s vagina. Was this ever confirmed as a fact? Or a ploy by detectives to get him to confess to the murder?

    Now let’s discuss the rope marks found on JB. Obviously she had to be alive when they occurred. Lou believes the garrote was fashioned for sexual reasons and that the rope was tightened and loosened on her as a form of sex play. We don’t know that for certain. What we do see and know for certain is that there is a lower red mark on her neck and then what appears to be red marks riding up higher until the rope finally is embedded in the neck in its final resting place once she was strangled. Again consistent with someone strangling her from behind indicative of the rope riding up on her neck as she is being pulled backward. I don’t agree with Smit that the marks on JB’s neck are from her scratching at the rope. I believe as the coroner stated these are small hemorrhages caused by the constriction of the rope. I believe the stun gun theory is a long shot, considering the manufacturer didn’t think they were produced by them and the Ramsey’s refusal to exhume the body to prove otherwise. I dismiss it as a non issue. It’s like taking any of the marks on JB’s body and coming up with other options as to how they got there. Fact is fact, the Ramsey’s REFUSED to exhume, and without the skin tissue samples, we will never know for sure.

    So the biggest question in this crime second to who actually murdered her, would be, was this a sexual crime or an accident followed by a cover up, or both?

    Here is what we know from her vaginal injuries and a question I raise.

    Her hymen was torn but in tact.
    There was no penile penetration
    There was little blood (only 2 drops) or trauma to her vagina
    There was a splinter found lodged in her vaginal wall
    There was no semen found on her body


    Now it was said that JB was molested with the BROKEN END of the paintbrush. Where was this stated as fact? Can someone help me here? Is this certain? Reason is my buddy brought up a good point, that wouldn’t there have been more bleeding from a jagged paintbrush stuck up in such a small area? So if someone was for instance simulating rape as in staged, even if the child was already dead, there would have been more damage to her vagina. And if they were “simulating rape” as a form to cover for the head trauma, why then wipe the child down and re-dress her? So this was NO staging. Whoever was molesting her, didn’t want others to know. Wouldn’t a paintbrush have made a perfect simulation of a penis on a child that age? That due to the fact that we all know this child’s vagina opening was 2 times larger than that of a normal child, we know for CERTAIN that this child was definitely being sexually abused prior in some fashion. That’s even confirmed in Thomas’ book by experts. Question now is, by whom? We all know that Patsy brought JB to the Doctors office an unusual amount of times prior to her murder. WHY? Was she covering her tracks? Back to my buddy’s theory that he believes someone was molesting the child with the paintbrush prior to it being broken. That the rope may or may not have been used as some sort of sexual play, but obviously used in ending her life. Perhaps JB was tired of playing or threatened to tell, or was being punished for wetting the bed. Either way she WAS molested and she WAS strangled and she WAS cracked in the skull. Who ever did this to JB was angry and lost control. Now given that information and all the KNOWN facts that link Patsy to the crime, is it conceivable that Patsy was sexually abusing JB for wetting the bed, lost her temper cracked her in the skull then used that same paint brush as a handle to strangle her child? When she pulled the rope, the paintbrush broke on the one end where the brush was attached. Look again at the autopsy photos and notice how both ends of the paint brush are jagged. There has been the assumption that a piece is missing. But this was an old brush and to me it just looks like the one end is worn down. It’s even cut at an angle like a lot of wood brushes are. I don’t think there ever was a missing piece, as the brush end was found back in Patsy’s tote. I think the whole missing piece is wishful thinking on the intruder theory. Also, what intruder cleans up after themselves? Why would he care to return the brush end to the paint tote? Again all of this to me implies only ONE person, Patsy.

    Then you have the fact that she was wiped down.-Again to cover the real crime here, SEXUAL ABUSE. A sexual predator wouldn’t care to cover that crime. That’s WHY he commits it, he’s a sexual predator. Most sexual predators even pose their victims after the fact. But this child was wiped down and re-dressed and then covered up (indicative of showing love for the child). If it was a true kidnapping, why was there a sexual crime? The note makes NO mention of sexual abuse. It’s all about a kidnapping. Therefore whoever molested JB was trying to HIDE IT. Then she was re-dressed. Here is where I think John may have come in to play. I once had thought that Patsy struck JB in the skull then panicked and either strangled JB to put her out of her misery or didn’t realize she was dead at the time she tried to make it look like something it wasn’t perhaps with the intent to “fool” John as well. But what we do now know for sure is John knew JB was dead before 911 was called. This child did not slowly asphyxiate in a sex game, IMO. I also once thought that John strangled JB, but Patsy’s fibers and the fact that a handle was constructed along with a foot print on JB’s back clearly implement Patsy. If John was the molester, he wouldn’t have needed the garrote handle or used his foot for leverage. This is huge because to me it means JR couldn’t have been the molester. Because look at it this way, if he was and Patsy came in and caught them, and struck at John but missed and hit JB as many here once believed, he would have had to of made Patsy finish off JB off by strangling her instead of doing it himself because all the evidence found on the cord, tape and paint tote only point to Patsy. Therefore due to the evidence that we know, JR has been excluded as the sexual predator and the person who strangled JB IMO.

    continued...

  2. #2

    Part 2

    Now to the interesting fact that there were rope fibers found on JB’s sheet on her bed. Now that I am honing down on WHO the killer is, I am still not certain as to where the crime occurred. I would like to know how many fibers there were and where they were found. Do we know anything more on this? The fact that Burkes’ knife was used to cut the rope was kept on the same floor as JB’s room on the top shelf of the cabinet where only Patsy and Linda knew where it was hidden, indicates to me that the rope may have been cut on JB’s bed. We then also have to take into account that JB’s feet were dusty. If she had been in the basement prior to her death, then she had to walk up 2 flights of carpeted stairs which I would tend to believe would wipe her feet clean. If the crime had been committed in the basement then Patsy either had to carry her back up 2 flights of stairs and into her room to strangle her, or left her in the basement, ran upstairs and grabbed the blanket out of the cabinet to cover JB with and perhaps saw the rope in there and began her cover up. And if those fibers got their via secondary transfer, what reason was there for Patsy to return to JB’s bed, unless to change the sheets on the bed? Linda Hoffman Pugh swears the blanket was in the dryer in the basement. That’s why it’s important to know just where those fibers were found and in what amount. How easily does this rope shed? And if Patsy didn’t need to return to JB’s room for the blanket, why were they found on JB’s bed? So the dusty feet and rope fibers on the bed don’t add up. The only thing I can think of is that Patsy was in that basement wrapping last minute gifts and JB came down after she had wet her bed. Patsy sexually abused JB perhaps as a form of punishment, lost control and struck her in the head. Thinking she killed JB, or perhaps JB was convulsing, she spots the rope in the paint tote or maybe it was in the upstairs cabinet and decides to plan a cover up. She returns to JB’s room to grab clothes to re-dress the child, and grabs Burke’s knife to cut the rope. Perhaps she cut the rope on JB’s bed. Again important to know where these fibers were found. Or perhaps after changing JB’s sheets the fibers simply transferred from Patsy’s sweater to the bed. The latter is what I believe happened, as Linda Hoffman Pugh stated the sheets were different from the ones she left on the bed, yet Patsy denied JB wet the bed. If the crime occurred upstairs, JB’s feet wouldn’t be dusty.

    The ONLY part of the staging that doesn’t fit is the oversized briefs. But I think they can be easily explained. I propose 2 conclusions on this. Either this is when John joined the cover up and grabbed the wrong size, or Patsy was so frantic, she grabbed them without realizing. Either way, what does it matter? One of the parents grabbed them. The fact that her favorite nightgown was found by the body suggests Patsy as well. I have always wondered if they ever pulled fingerprints off the underwear package from them being ripped open? Men wouldn’t know what size to grab or know what PJ’s were JB’s favorite. But if Patsy grabbed the nightgown, it would make sense she grabbed the underpants as well. If John found out about it at this time, he would have told Patsy not to touch the body any further. Therefore Patsy covered JB, and she was hidden in the windowless room, so Burke Ramsey would not see her. That is why the door was latched. What would have been an intruder’s motive for doing that? And how would he have known the door latched on the top? John knew about the ransom note prior to the 911 call otherwise he would have NEVER have instructed Patsy to call. He would have never of called all of their friends over. The logical person that all the evidence points to is Patsy Ramsey. John was covering for his mentally ill wife. The suggestion from the police department in their interrogation of Patsy Ramsey, mentions Klonopin. (A benzodiazepine derivative. It is a highly potent anticonvulsant drug) This drug was NOT prescribed to JB, and Klonopin is commonly prescribed for people with mental disorders and people with severe anxiety) Because it is a anticonvulsant drug, I do question weather there was traces of this in JB’s system that were excluded from the autopsy report. A panicked mother may have grabbed her own (anticonvulsant medicine if her child was convulsing, say after the head trauma, and if after this failed, the only option was for Patsy to put her out of her misery. The important thing to note is that this drug was brought up by investigators and therefore may have been found in the home. If true, this to me suggests that the drug belonged to Patsy Ramsey and she was being treated for a mental disorder. This is my belief and theory. I know this drug is used for other purposes, but with what we know about Patsy, I have come to the conclusion that this woman was in fact mentally ill. Perhaps bipolar. After all these years and discussions, I have come to the conclusion that it is the only thing that makes any sense. If Patsy was mentally ill and John knew about it, he would have been more likely to help cover the crime out of the love he had for her and the fear of losing her. John Ramsey, a man of money and power never spent any significant amount of money searching for the murderer of his child. He spent more money on his campaign and homes then searching for the killer. He did everything to protect and shield his family, including his ex wife from being investigated by lawyering up early on. He did everything he could NOT to cooperate including ordering his plane to be fueled up within 30 minutes of finding his daughter’s body and not ever asking once how his child died. He lost close friends and even a job due to his refusal to take a lie detector test. We have to look at what IS as opposed to what ISN’T in this crime. The important thing that I know now that I didn’t know before is that John Ramsey IMO lied about the window, which implicates him clearly in a cover up, and that Patsy Ramsey MAY have been taking Klonopin, which is indicative again IMO of a person being treated with a mental illness. I can’t imagine either John or Patsy lived very happy lives after the murder of JonBenet. He must be living with a tremendous amount of guilt. This case will go no where now, especially with the embarrassing arrest of JMK. The Boulder’s DA’s office headed by Mary Lacy has proven without a doubt it’s inept with handling this sort of crime. It will never be solved, but to me the evidence is clear. Our murderer is dead.

    (The above is my opinion of what I believe MAY have happened in this case)

  3. #3
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    good post. I never understood why the grand jury didnt indict. I think there was something fishy there. IMO, the jury was prepared to convict and Alex Hunter stopped it. Patsy should have spent the remainder of her life in jail, perhaps John as well for helping her commit the crime. It angers me that two people who claim they are Christians could do such a thing and lie for so long!

  4. #4
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    Good post Nedthan Johns.

    I recall Bluecrab's argument of the chair thing with John's statement as well.

    I just don't put much credit to French. Why didn't he check the room? How then would he notice the 1/8" opening. The rest is either John said or Fleet said. Why didn't Fleet see the body when he opened the door? Everybody is upstairs and John is moving the body around? I would sure like to see the transcripts of Fleet White and Officer French.

    As to the fibers, were they an exact match? I thought Lou Smit stated they were missing the black. There was red but no black.

    Interesting thing on the paintbrush interpretation.

    Patsy's writing somewhat alike to the RN. No cel phone records made available, despite ST requests.

    I agree it's hard to explain it all away and say intruder.

  5. #5
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    Great post NJ! I have studied psychology a bit,and most people don't understand how it can be that PR went to a party,probably appeared pretty normal,and yet came home and did this.(I beleive she was mentally ill as well,likely with bipolar disorder,as you mentioned).Well,it CAN happen.It's called ACUTE DECOMPENSATION.Mentally ill people can be excellent at hiding their illness around others when they need to.They can also be very manipulative if a situation arises and they want to hide it or transfer the blame to someone else,which they frequently do to avoid any punishment or consequences.They can be very good at making themselves appear pristine and nearly perfect and innocent,while doing a good job of making others appear extremely bad or even guilty.If PR was the one who murdered JB, then I think JR was VERY lucky she didn't point the finger at HIM.(That might explain the 2 sets of lawyers).I don't think he fully understood just how manipulative someone can be in that situation,although he went right along with it himself pretty well,even to the point of throwing close friends under the bus in an attempt to save them both.JMO.Again,that was an excellent post NJ!
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

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    I wanted to add one more thing here...Smit beleiving the R's are innocent just b/c of their lack of background is absurd...mentally ill people can be fine or seem just fine to the outside world,then all of a sudden they can crack,and they go into being unable to compensate for their illness,and something bad happens.If it happens,it has to start somewhere.It sounds like that's what happened with PR.
    And as far as Jameson's comment in DOI,that 'it just doesn't fit", well guess what?? IT DOES FIT.
    I feel sorry for her for being so uneducated.
    Last edited by JMO8778; 11-16-2006 at 11:42 PM.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedthan Johns
    The suggestion from the police department in their interrogation of Patsy Ramsey, mentions Klonopin. (A benzodiazepine derivative. It is a highly potent anticonvulsant drug) This drug was NOT prescribed to JB, and Klonopin is commonly prescribed for people with mental disorders and people with severe anxiety)...If true, this to me suggests that the drug belonged to Patsy Ramsey (The above is my opinion of what I believe MAY have happened in this case)
    Can you give more info as to what you mean about the "suggestion from the PD..."?

    [My first thought about Klonopin was that if P were actually taking the medication, maybe it was for anxiety due to her cancer. I know people who have taken anti-anxiety meds after being diagnosed with cancer and other debilitating illnesses.]

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    This fits with everything I have learned. Bipolars can be totally charming and brilliant in the manic phase ( charm the honeysuckle off the vine) and beyond 0 to 60 in 3 seconds or less with the temper ( firebrand )


    I was discussing this case with a personal friend this week who but for few minute difference could have sat down and wrote your theory. This friend also believed Patsy was mentally ill and on medications. You put a lot of thought time and work into this theory. Thankyou for caring so much for JonBenet.

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    True,and if you research this case,going back to the whole month of Dec. '96,it sounds like PR showed signs of mood swings,and JB showed signs of severe stress.Perhaps she was taking her moodiness out on her.It definitely sounds like more than just holiday stress for PR;I think someone said it seems like things were heating up that month.That sounds likely.
    Some people with BPD can also have homicidal and suicidal thoughts and feelings as well.I can't help but think maybe PR was having the homicidal ones.That is not to say she was a bad person per se,it's just that it can be part of the illness,and ppl can do anything from hurting animals(even if they're normally animal lovers)to acts of violence during those times,if they don't get help.
    I imagine PR didn't even understand herself very well.It also sounds like she had a couple of personality disorders,too.JMO.
    Last edited by JMO8778; 11-17-2006 at 01:10 PM.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778
    True,and if you research this case,going back to the whole month of Dec. '96,it sounds like PR showed signs of mood swings,and JB showed signs of severe stress.Perhaps she was taking her moodiness out on her.It definitely sounds like more than just holiday stress for PR;I think someone said it seems like things were heating up that month.That sounds likely.
    Some people with BPD can also have homicidal and suicidal thoughts and feelings as well.I can't help but think maybe PR was having the homicidal ones.That is not to say she was a bad person per se,it's just that it can be part of the illness,and ppl can do anything from hurting animals(even if they're normally animal lovers)to acts of violence during those times,if they don't get help.
    I imagine PR didn't even understand herself very well.It also sounds like she had a couple of personality disorders as well.JMO.
    Add to the mix, her cancer and chemo. Does horrible things to the body, and the mind as well, I am sure the stress is unbearable. It takes a toll on your mind and if that mind is already ill...well...you get the picture.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by santos1014
    Add to the mix, her cancer and chemo. Does horrible things to the body, and the mind as well, I am sure the stress is unbearable. It takes a toll on your mind and if that mind is already ill...well...you get the picture.
    For sure,and I wonder about that esp. since she had high dose experimental chemo.Add to that,did she have anything to drink that night?If so,did she take Klonopin and /or an antidepressant with it?
    It sounds like she really needed a mood stabilizer.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

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    "The window did three things for me. It made it clear to me that John Ramsey was LYING. That the door according to him was BLOCKED by a chair and other “stuff” as he put it and that he had to actually MOVE the chair before getting into the train room where the basement window was located when he went down to the basement alone around 10am. He is VERY CLEAR on this. Neither Fleet nor detective French mention having to move items to get into that room, and even if they did WHY would they replace them to re-block the door? Doesn’t make sense. It proves to me that John Ramsey was IN the basement prior to the 911 call and to me this implicates him in the crime prior to the 911 call, which I previously did not believe. "

    This is the part of your theory that I LOVE. Larry King (to my astonishment) brought this up to John Ramsey. He said "strange that an intruder would put the chair back in front of the door before he left". John's reply was and I am paraphrasing "it is not strange to me at all, he wants to throw people off and he is someone not like you or I Larry, he is insane; he does not think like you or I; he is evil".

    This case is exhausting with all the things to look at remember. And with all the BS that the Ramseys have thrown out there to sidetrack everyone. And another very good point you make is that John Ramsey knew about the Ransom note before the 911 call or he never would have allowed anyone to come over (friends) if he were innocent. Excellent point.

    Thanks so much for that post. I have read it twice and it is just good.

    But you did an excellent job in your analysis. I mean it. Just excellent.

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    Is there any evidence at all that PR was diagnosed with any sort of mental problem? Is there any evidence she was prescribed klonopin?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrishope
    Is there any evidence at all that PR was diagnosed with any sort of mental problem? Is there any evidence she was prescribed klonopin?
    Re: Klonopin. It is a generic Xanax and not as addicting as Xanax, but the same effect. This is in no reflection on Ned's theory. But taking klonopin is not necessarily for someone who has a serious illness, imo; that is not to say that Patsy did not. Obviously, something was going on to make her this angry and I believe she was. I just want to clear up the fact that we are not talking about a medicine that cures hearing voices, etc. It is a tranquilizer basically and mood elevator. I know people who take it and they are not mentally ill, a little wackado, yes, but seriously not mentally ill. I mean one could work and take this drug.

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    1,391
    Quote Originally Posted by Solace
    Re: Klonopin. It is a generic Xanax and not as addicting as Xanax, but the same effect. This is in no reflection on Ned's theory. But taking klonopin is not necessarily for someone who has a serious illness, imo; that is not to say that Patsy did not. Obviously, something was going on to make her this angry and I believe she was. I just want to clear up the fact that we are not talking about a medicine that cures hearing voices, etc. It is a tranquilizer basically and mood elevator. I know people who take it and they are not mentally ill, a little wackado, yes, but seriously not mentally ill. I mean one could work and take this drug.
    No but what I recognize is quite possibly Bipolar from even knowing about her need to show the house and showcase their lives and her activity such as trying to put on that perfect front and yet behind the scenes is clutter and choas. Also reading the transcripts of the interviews. She would try to charm the interviewer failing that she would fire up to BUSTER your going down the wrong road. The reason I have pinpointed that is quite frankly we have a member of our extended family that is BP. It can be like living with a train wreck. Sweetest person and then in a spit second she can knock out the softball coach or something. You go along pretty good then POW. Most we can do as a family is encourage this person to stay on her meds. Continue therapy. Be a support system and try to see the cycles coming We cope with the rest. I can tell you absolutely suicidal thoughts and homicidal rage can exist. Yet they can be brilliant go getters, Or so disorganized you can't make heads nor tails. I believe it was possible to even see the clues this if you look close in the pagentry .... Stage mommy. Need for control. It can be scarey as lightening strikes usually before you hear the thunder! We pretty much know the signs to watch for now. Holidays or anything that can cycle up a manic episode ....well what goes up must come down. Unfortunately sometimes the whole deck comes crashing down with it. We know, that Patsy was on medications. Basically from her battle with cancer. Paxil is one I read she was taking . Granted again maybe Patsy was not even diagnosed. Wouldn't have been on medications if she had not been diag. Depression associative to diagnosis of cancer? What I am saying is there are things I have questioned through the years in hearing and reading on Patsy. Obsessive Compulsive jumps right out. Most are BPolar or Borderline Personality issues ....I have wondered enough about it to try to google it time and again. But can find no trace of therapy or treatment ever discussed other than depression and anxiety meds . Anyone ever see Patty Dukes movie regarding Bi polar. Interesting and I think if you did. You'd see why I have wondered.

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