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Thread: WA - Anne Marie Burr, 8, Tacoma, 31 Aug 1962

  1. #26
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    Moved from LTWH board to here for discussion, originally posted by Be Adequite!

    Missing/cold case- WA state- Ann Marie Burr
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ann Marie Burr- Tacoma, WA
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/burr_ann.html
    An 8 year old girl vanishes from her house in the middle of the night...Was she the first victim of a then 14 year old Ted Bundy, who lived only blocks from her home?...Perhaps one day we'll know the truth...

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    Quote Originally Posted by meggilyweggily View Post
    Ann Rule claimed that a former classmate of Ted Bundy's contacted her once. Ted allegedly offered to show the classmate "a dead body." His classmate declined and the subject never came up again. This would have been around the time Ann Marie went missing. Ann Rule wasn't able to get any more info, though, because she said the woman kind of freaked and stopped writing her.
    It bothers me that Bundy claimed innocence. Killing a girl at such a young age and getting away with utterly would have added to the Bundy mystique, and god knows he was a huge fan of his own mystique.

    I wonder if Bundy didn't see someone else kill her. Bundy was a night owl, maybe he was wandering around his neighborhood and came across Anne Marie's abduction and/or murder.

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    The Bundy Factor...

    Quote Originally Posted by AMP1979 View Post
    It bothers me that Bundy claimed innocence. Killing a girl at such a young age and getting away with utterly would have added to the Bundy mystique, and god knows he was a huge fan of his own mystique.....
    When Ted finally started to talk about his crimes, he tended to speak in the third person and gave information as if he was an expert or consultant of the FBI. In the end, he did admit to some, but not others, even though others were found in the same places as girls he admitted to having killed.

    One thing that these dirtbags often do is deny killing small children, even when it is known that they did kill them. This may be in some sick way how they maintain that "mystique" and a higher status in prison. Somehow prisoners look up to a serial killer of adults or older kids on death row, but have no respect or admiration for a child killer.

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  6. #30
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    After reading "The Stranger Beside Me," I do think it's a possibility that Bundy could have done it. Ted was (and I still feel is) way different then other serial killers. A relative of his mentions a disturbing incident that happened when Ted was only 3 years old, so in light of that I do think it's possible that he could have been involved in this case.
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.---Patrick Moynihan
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  8. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by meggilyweggily View Post
    Ann Rule claimed that a former classmate of Ted Bundy's contacted her once. Ted allegedly offered to show the classmate "a dead body." His classmate declined and the subject never came up again. This would have been around the time Ann Marie went missing. Ann Rule wasn't able to get any more info, though, because she said the woman kind of freaked and stopped writing her.
    That disgusting piece of information DOES sound like Ted Bundy. He was known to bury his victims in shallow graves and go back to visit their bodies. He applied makeup to one deceased victim and washed another's hair, among other even less savory things. If Bundy was 14 at the time and he did this, this makes me think she is in a shallow grave within walking distance of her house because it is doubtful that he drove at that age.

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  10. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by meggilyweggily View Post
    Ann Rule claimed that a former classmate of Ted Bundy's contacted her once. Ted allegedly offered to show the classmate "a dead body." His classmate declined and the subject never came up again. This would have been around the time Ann Marie went missing. Ann Rule wasn't able to get any more info, though, because she said the woman kind of freaked and stopped writing her.
    If the classmate went with him, she probably would have been his next victim.

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  12. #33
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    I completely believe that Bundy was involved with the Anne Marie Burr case. Whether or not it was his first murder nobody may ever know. Every time I look on the Charley Project and see cases of missing women from the 60's and 70's, especially in the Northwest, but also in States that Bundy was known to frequent (Utah, Colorado, Oregon, California, and Vermont, I think ok, this seems like a Bundy possibility. Bob Keppel is convinced that Bundy's total victim number is well over 100. He wrote a great book about Bundy called "The Riverman" which was originally intended for Bundy to talk about the Green River Killer, but in reality was talking about his own crimes. Another great book about Bundy that many have not heard of is titled, "Ted Bundy: Conversations With A Killer", by Stephen Michaud and Hugh Ayensworth. The entire book Bundy talks about his crimes in the 3rd person. Not easy reading by any stretch, though

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    I wonder about the area near Anne Marie's house. According to the web site link posted earlier, Bundy lived three miles from Anne Marie's house, which is a pretty good distance if you're walking/riding a bike. I'm wondering, if he did it, where he put her.

    As to whether he had the capability to do it, I do agree he did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reportertype View Post
    I wonder about the area near Anne Marie's house. According to the web site link posted earlier, Bundy lived three miles from Anne Marie's house, which is a pretty good distance if you're walking/riding a bike. I'm wondering, if he did it, where he put her.

    As to whether he had the capability to do it, I do agree he did.
    Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about construction (concrete being poured, I think) at a nearby university, and I'm pretty sure Ann Rule talks about some sort of construction/digging/etc. on the Burrs' street at the time in The Stranger Beside Me. (I'd go look it up, but my roommate is asleep! I can just see her waking up and wondering why I'm looking up Ted Bundy facts at 10:30pm.)

    I suspect Bundy, too. I'm not surprised that he claimed innocence - IIRC, one of his few murders that he wouldn't talk about much was Kimberly Leach, his youngest known victim. Maybe he felt some sort of remorse with the younger ones that sadly he didn't extend to the rest of his victims.

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  18. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMP1979 View Post
    It bothers me that Bundy claimed innocence. Killing a girl at such a young age and getting away with utterly would have added to the Bundy mystique, and god knows he was a huge fan of his own mystique.

    I wonder if Bundy didn't see someone else kill her. Bundy was a night owl, maybe he was wandering around his neighborhood and came across Anne Marie's abduction and/or murder.
    But, it all comes back to the stigma attached to child killers. It's bad enough to be a murderer, but once they get him for the murder of a child?????????????? it becomes a completely different scenario.

    I go both ways - sometimes I think its too much of a coincidence for him NOT to have taken her, but then I think about the letter he wrote to Ann Marie's mom saying he didn't take her and wonder why if he did, he would lie. Better to just not respond, in my mind. Although, I doubt we will ever know the full extent to which Ted Bundy terrorized and murdered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hucklepie View Post
    Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about construction (concrete being poured, I think) at a nearby university, and I'm pretty sure Ann Rule talks about some sort of construction/digging/etc. on the Burrs' street at the time in The Stranger Beside Me. (I'd go look it up, but my roommate is asleep! I can just see her waking up and wondering why I'm looking up Ted Bundy facts at 10:30pm.)

    I suspect Bundy, too. I'm not surprised that he claimed innocence - IIRC, one of his few murders that he wouldn't talk about much was Kimberly Leach, his youngest known victim. Maybe he felt some sort of remorse with the younger ones that sadly he didn't extend to the rest of his victims.
    Lynette Culver, age 12 is also a supposed Bundy victim, her body has never been found. I remember from reading Keppel's books that Bundy was very reluctant to discuss this case other than mentioning he had put her in the Snake? river. Bundy, like many, definitely had issues admitting to crimes on younger girls.

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  21. #38
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    Bump

    Anne Marie has been missing 49 years today.

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  23. #39
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    It is very intriquing to think that a teenaged Ted Bundy could have been involved in this. It might be pointed out that Bundy's early attacks and murders involved entering residences while the victims were sleeping. Of course, these were in 1974 well over a decade after the Annie Marie Burr disappearance. Reports say that before his execution, Bundy admitted he first began kidnapping and murdering in 1969 when he would have been in his early 20's.

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    http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/0...61-tacoma.html


    Published: 09/19/10 8:59 am | Updated: 09/19/10 8:59 am

    Ann is mentioned in the above article.

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  26. #41
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    Ted Bundy....

    1. It was raining the night Anne Marie Burr was taken. That really struck me. Serial murderers do follow "trends" and / or things that set their mood, like anyone else. Many of his victims were taken when it was raining, as if this set his depression mood to go kill at times. I was surprised at how many times I saw it was raining when he committed his murders. There was a 'pattern' there.

    2. She was taken out of her home with no resistance. He knew her and it was said she would follow him around all of the time.
    3. 3 miles is said as a reason he did not do it. When 14, we often snuck out and meet up with friends, 3 -4 miles away. 3 miles was nothing.
    4. The "wet" shoe prints they found outside the open window to her livingroom .... KED's (brand name) tennis shoes, size 6-7. That fits his size and a lot of kids wore those shoes back then. They were the "cool" shoes to have. These were shoes worn only by kids & younger teenagers, not adults. I wish they had done a foot print comparison to Ted's shoes.

    5. It's common that serial murderers do not admit their first murders. I think it dreg's up the "why's" that they dont' want to address , but rather suppress. Or , as said, to admit they did things as young as they did.
    6. I doubt her age was a problem for him, since he killed two 12 yrs old while he was 27-32 yrs old. He may have felt her being smaller and younger, he could control her easily. He may have not planned to kill her, but then did.
    7. His father had already been strongly abusing him, and this may be where he found his outlet, to harm others and take it out on them.
    8. He later showed he had no issue going into homes for victims.
    9. Her father is the one that said when he was out looking for her, that he saw Ted Bundy hanging around some construction that was going on near the home. Her father was checking that area to make sure she had not fallen and gotten hurt. He said, "Ted seemed to be acting strangely, nervous".

    I'm convinced he killed her, but unfortunately that knowledge and where she ended up, is probably lost forever. Unfortunately I think they made two very bad assumptions right off the start back then, 1) a kid wouldn't do that, and 2) 3 miles was too far for him to have done it.

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  28. #42
    I believe he killed her, for many reasons, most of which have been listed here so I won't rehash them, but I'll add some thoughts of my own:

    3 miles is not a far distance when you are young, especially if you go to schools where other kids are bussed in from the surrounding countryside (don't know if this happened here, but I went to a school that had kids from a 15 mile radius into the local countryside. Several of my friends lived 7 miles out, and I'd cycle out to see them). We would do this in all weathers.

    The letter to her Mother: It is likely he would answer her and tell her he had nothing to do with it, as no other of his victims mother's had lived in the same town as/casually knew his mother. Imagine Mrs Bundy bumping into Mrs Burr at the post office....

    He never admitted his youngest victims. He barely admitted to killing anyone except when it was to save his own skin, and even then he dripfed information in a bid to get his execution stayed. Had there have been no execution (had he have not been sentenced to death) he would likely never have admitted anything.

    Look at the example of Gary Ridgeway, who stabbed a 6 year old boy (not within his victim profile at all) at age 16 because "I always wondered what it would be like to kill someone". If Ridgeway could be thinking this way at 16 (and had likely been running over it in his head through from the start of puberty) then bundy could have been thinking and acting this way at 14.

    The small shoe prints at the abduction site, Could he have been peeping and left those behind, then she had seen him and he took her and killed her so she would not tell? Or did he just see an oppertunity.

    What are the chances of another killer in that area, that she would trust enough to leave with without putting up a fight, who had the same sized feet as a teenage boy, who would have those sorts of urges? Serial killers are few and far between, so it is more common for such an event to be a single killing (and someone she knew.........), but two teenage killers with similar techniques in this small town at the same time, with so many other consistancies?

    I also know that some people (i believe her mother) have stated that reports of her *following him around* were not true, but they live in a town, possible went to the same parks and I believe he delivered groceries to her home (at least I have seen it printed somewhere, but I've read so much info on Bundy that I cannot remember where at this time). When I was small, we had a local van that delivered soda in reusable bottles, then collected the bottles. A lot of the delivery boys knew my siblings, and if one of them had approached me and told me one of them had sent them to get me for my siblings, I might have gone. And i was a very suspicious kid who'd had stranger safety drummed into me my whole childhood (one of my sisters best friends was murdered, and my sister had been playing with her just prior to this and declined to accompany her to the home of the man who killed her).

    apologies for spelling errors, and all imo.

    Jmo.

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  30. #43
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    http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/0...ed-bundys.html

    STACEY MULICK; Staff writer

    Published: 07/30/11 6:32 pm | Updated: 07/30/11 8:16 pm


    Officials in Florida are working to have Bundy’s DNA profile uploaded into the FBI’s national database by mid-August. Tacoma detectives hope to compare it to evidence that was never analyzed in the Ann Marie case.
    Once they upload his DNA profile that might prove interesting.

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  32. #44
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    Very interesting! Thanks for posting, Kat!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevmob77 View Post
    I completely believe that Bundy was involved with the Anne Marie Burr case. Whether or not it was his first murder nobody may ever know. Every time I look on the Charley Project and see cases of missing women from the 60's and 70's, especially in the Northwest, but also in States that Bundy was known to frequent (Utah, Colorado, Oregon, California, and Vermont, I think ok, this seems like a Bundy possibility. Bob Keppel is convinced that Bundy's total victim number is well over 100. He wrote a great book about Bundy called "The Riverman" which was originally intended for Bundy to talk about the Green River Killer, but in reality was talking about his own crimes. Another great book about Bundy that many have not heard of is titled, "Ted Bundy: Conversations With A Killer", by Stephen Michaud and Hugh Ayensworth. The entire book Bundy talks about his crimes in the 3rd person. Not easy reading by any stretch, though
    I agree. When I heard that Ted Bundy lived near the victim, red flags and sirens went off. That is something that cannot be overlooked.

    Satch

    PS. The 1962 date should be changed if it is incorrect from some sources.

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  36. #46
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    A new book is coming out this fall about the disappearance of Ann Marie Burr and Ted Bundy.

    http://rebeccatmorris.com/index.php
    Please Help Find Brian Shaffer!



    www.findbrianshaffer.com

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  38. #47
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    Coming up 50 years.. I still believe Ted Bundy was the killer.

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    Ann Marie is our Featured Cold Case from 8/14 to 8/21/2011
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  42. #49
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    I have always thought that she was the first person killed by Ted Bundy. Did they ever test the torn part of the shirt that was left behind? I know there was no way to test it back in the 60's but if they still had it could they get anything from it now?

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  44. #50
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    Although it seems possible for TB to commit such an act as this I cant see how he would possibly know that they were cementing foundations the next day - do they advertise???
    'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind', Mahatma Ghandi.

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