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  1. #1
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    I support the Intruder theory, HOWEVER a question

    Ok. Jonbenet was found with her hands bound above her head, right? So, while I believe in the intruder theory, a question has rose in my mind. While she was being strangled, there are clearly little claw marks on her neck. They theorize she was trying to grab the rope she was being strangled with. How is that possible when her hands are bound above her head? OR did the "intruder" pretend to strangle her for sexual gratification?

    That's the only part I see a bit "staged" here. There can't be both. Her struggling and her tied up unable to struggle and use her hands.

    Any ideas?

  2. #2
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    If you read the description of the wimpy pseudo-bondage you will see that she was in no way prevented from clawing futilely at her neck as she had the cord repeatedly tightened and relaxed time and time again.

  3. #3

    Fishing?IMHO Head Wound 1st, strangle/staging 2nd IMHO!

    Quote Originally Posted by blueclouds
    Ok. Jonbenet was found with her hands bound above her head, right? So, while I believe in the intruder theory, a question has rose in my mind. While she was being strangled, there are clearly little claw marks on her neck. They theorize she was trying to grab the rope she was being strangled with. How is that possible when her hands are bound above her head? OR did the "intruder" pretend to strangle her for sexual gratification?

    That's the only part I see a bit "staged" here. There can't be both. Her struggling and her tied up unable to struggle and use her hands.

    Any ideas?
    Fishing?IMHO Head Wound 1st, strangle/staging 2nd IMHO! Q:Have you read ALL books/info?

  4. #4
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    Regarding the claw marks

    Imagine there is a cord around your neck and you are trying to pull it off. where would you be likely to leave scratch marks?

    Answer - above the cord and pointing downward (right?)

    Well, look at the autopsy photo of JonBenet, there are tiny little crescent shaped scratch marks on the right hand side of her neck BELOW the cord. However, there is another mark below these scratch marks - a line at the right hand side of her neck which is described as the first strangulation marks - so the claw marks do fit with her fighting off her assailant.

    As with everything in this case, answers to questions always raise more questions. My next question is... why does the line below the scratch marks only appear on one side of her neck? Surely if both strangulations were done with the cord, then there would be a complete line around her neck as there was with the second strangulation mark?

    Dosn't this lend credence to suggestins that she was strangled by the elasticated neck of her top? That the triangular abrasion on the left side of her neck was caused by knuckles twisting against her neck causing the elasticated neck of the top to abrade only the right hand side of her neck?
    This is only my opinion

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueclouds
    Ok. Jonbenet was found with her hands bound above her head, right? So, while I believe in the intruder theory, a question has rose in my mind. While she was being strangled, there are clearly little claw marks on her neck. They theorize she was trying to grab the rope she was being strangled with. How is that possible when her hands are bound above her head? OR did the "intruder" pretend to strangle her for sexual gratification?

    That's the only part I see a bit "staged" here. There can't be both. Her struggling and her tied up unable to struggle and use her hands.

    Any ideas?
    Excellent Jayelles!

    It's reasonable to wonder that if one part of the crime is staged, why not the rest? My personal opinion is that if she really struggled, the marks would be everywhere around her neck and there would be a lot more of them. The ties were also rather loose, another sign of staging.


    If one part of a crime scene it staged, common sense tells us the rest is suspicious, no?
    This is my opinion only
    This post may not be copied to any other forum

    God Bless America

  6. #6
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    Two separate ligatures?

    The upper circumferential marks around JonBenet's neck were obviously the result of the 1/4" nylon cord ligature found tightly imbedded in her skin. The cause of the lower circumferential mark is less obvious.

    As just mentioned, the lower circumferential mark does not appear on the left side of JonBenet's neck and that begs the question WHY?

    One explanation is there were TWO ligatures, one being the 1/4" diameter braided nylon cord used to asphyxiate JonBenet and the other one a 1/2" diameter 3-strand twisted manila rope used to HANG HER for grotesque display purposes. In this scenario John found the body much earlier that morning and cut her down to give JonBenet a measure of dignity in death.

    If the body had been hung the body weight would cause the circumferential abrasion from the rope to be more severe on the opposite side of the knot (the right side of the neck). The bulky knot on the left side would have caused the 1 1/2" by 3/4" triangular abrasion on the lower left side of the neck just above the lower circumferential abrasion and would have forced the head to look toward the right.

    JMO

  7. #7
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    Bluecrab

    "One explanation is there were TWO ligatures, one being the 1/4" diameter braided nylon cord used to asphyxiate JonBenet and the other one a 1/2" diameter 3-strand twisted manila rope used to HANG HER for grotesque display purposes. In this scenario John found the body much earlier that morning and cut her down to give JonBenet a measure of dignity in death."

    In this theory, when do you think that John found her hanging and cut her down? It would have to have been very very early after her death or there would have been difinate signs of the blood pooling in her lower body if she were hung in any way. Those signs apparently were there, so how long do you think she was "hung" in any sense of the word?
    This is only my personal opinion.

  8. #8
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    Blueclouds

    There are numerous indicators of staging, no matter who actually killed JonBenet. First, there were her hands tied so loose and in a position to serve no good reason to be tied at all. Second, the tape on her mouth was placed there after it was needed to serve any good purpose because there were no signs of a struggle on the sticky side of it. Third, she had obvious signs of some sort of sexual abuse, but here clothing was put back in place as though it never happened. Fourth, she was on a blanket that she surely didn't take down into that basement, spread it out, and lay down on it by herself. Therefore there was a staging of sorts concerning that no matter who the perp was. Then, we come back to the supposed ransom note. Since the body was left in the home, and there was no call to try to get the money, one pretty much has to look at that as some sort of staging also. These are the first that come to my mind.
    This is only my personal opinion.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie
    "One explanation is there were TWO ligatures, one being the 1/4" diameter braided nylon cord used to asphyxiate JonBenet and the other one a 1/2" diameter 3-strand twisted manila rope used to HANG HER for grotesque display purposes. In this scenario John found the body much earlier that morning and cut her down to give JonBenet a measure of dignity in death."

    In this theory, when do you think that John found her hanging and cut her down? It would have to have been very very early after her death or there would have been difinate signs of the blood pooling in her lower body if she were hung in any way. Those signs apparently were there, so how long do you think she was "hung" in any sense of the word?


    In this theory my guess is John found the body around 4:00 A.M. The hanging would have been partial, so to speak, just enough to prop up the upper portion of the body to grotesquely pose her with legs apart. According to the autopsy lividity formed on the dorsal part of the body, which could have meant any part of the back including the lower back (the part that would still be lying on the floor).

    JMO

  10. #10
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    If she had been hung in any fashion, there would have been pooling of the blood in some area of her body. I am an EMT, and worked on our ambulance service. Pooling of the blood begins to occur immediately. The amount is influenced only by time. I am NO expert, just telling you what I know first hand through my experience.
    This is only my personal opinion.


  11. #11
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    Lightbulb Good thinking girls

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbara

    If one part of a crime scene it staged, common sense tells us the rest is suspicious, no?

    Yup, IF staging was started it had to end staged...

    Way to go Jay, Barb,and Cookie
    Socks ,
    Teresa
    Just my opinion

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie
    If she had been hung in any fashion, there would have been pooling of the blood in some area of her body. I am an EMT, and worked on our ambulance service. Pooling of the blood begins to occur immediately. The amount is influenced only by time. I am NO expert, just telling you what I know first hand through my experience.
    I agree that the blood pools soon after the heart stops pumping. There was pooling of the blood (also called lividity, or livor mortis) in the dorsal (back) area. The autopsy didn't say whether the pooling of the blood was in the upper or lower part of the back, or both. The pooling of blood continues to take place by gravity until the lividity fully sets about four hours later.

    If the pooling of blood was only in the lower dorsal area it would support the theory that JonBenet had been strung up, likely for posing.

    JMO

  13. #13
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    STAGING: There is not one iota of staging involved in this crime.

    Livor Mortis: I see no indication of being suspended but I'm sure that once she was dead he merely disposed of the body and thats the position indicated by the livor mortis and any rigor mortis. He probably dragged her into the wine cellar and her corpse was perhaps posed there, but that is not staging. He probably applied the duct tape then, though it may have been sooner. If applied then, the duct tape would be posing, not staging.

  14. #14
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    There are internet autopsy photos of JB's back. I believe the livor mortis was on her entire back. Also, the autopsy says this:

    " Examination of the back is unremarkable. There is dorsal 3+ to 4+ livor mortis which is nonblanching. "

    If JonBenet had been moved, I think there would have been blanching.

  15. #15
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    The blanket wrapping does,imo, suggests an older person. Within in my family I see a very different way of handling babies then even a generation ago. The new babies sleep on their backs and are just lightly tucked in,however ,just a few years ago the method was to lay the blanket down,put the infant on it and pull up the three corners,then place the baby on his/her side or tummy. Is it true ,John, stated she was wrapped in this three corner fashion? This would certainly not indicate a young male perpetrator,IMO. It seems more indicative of an older person,a person who is a parent. Now,I know how everyone feels about Patsy, but I would have to see pictures of Jonbenet swaddled ,pictures where Nedra,a nurse,or a nanny weren't involved in taking,to suggest Patsy was a swaddler. I keep feeling it's almost a kneejerk to wrap a child that way when you've taken care of many,and not something one would normally do if they hadn't.
    IMO

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