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  1. #1
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    More about Patsy's Rings

    It seems like the BPD was interested in Patsy's rings too. I think we may have hit the nail on the head. Notice how Trujillo, in a round-about way, comes back to the jewelry issue twice in this clip from Patsy's April, 1997 interview:


    TT: So you go upstairs, jump into pajamas go into bed. Did you have to take off your makeup, take off your jewelry. Whatís that whole sequence?
    PR: (Laughs)
    TT: I donít wear a lot of makeup, so itís hard for me to know how often you have to do that.
    PR: Oh, I probably washed my face, brushed my teeth.
    TT: Okay. Whatís your normal get ready for bed routine I guess is what Iím asking?
    PR: Um, take my makeup off. Brush my teeth.
    TT: Okay. Take all your jewelry off then.
    PR: No, I donít take them off.
    TT: Okay.
    PR: Sometime, I mean, it depends on what I have on, sometimes I take it off, sometimes I donít, but . . .


    What's more, this Q&A session answers whether or not Patsy removes her rings. According to Patsy, she normally does not.

    Now, all we have to do is find someone who knows which rings she had on Christmas night. Where are the photos of the White's party? I can't believe no one has leaked them yet...Oh, well.

    Also, notice how PR answers..."I don't take them off..." When you are talking about jewelry, you answer, "I don't take it off." You don't say, "I don't take 'them' off," unless you are talking and/or thinking about a specific item of jewelry, of which there are two or more.

    For instance, if someone asked me if I took my earrings off, I would say, "No, I didn't take them off."

    Or, if someone said, did you take your jewelry off, and I was thinking, "Yeah, well the only jewelry I had on was my earrings...," I might incorrectly answer, "No, I didn't take them off..."

    But, the appropriate answer would be "No, I didn't take it off" to the question posed by Trujillo. He didn't ask PR about a specific few pieces of jewelry, but that is how she responded...as though he said, "Did you take your earrings (or rings) off?"

    Must have been on her mind, ya think?



    (emphasis mine for demonstration purposes)
    The above is my opinion only based on published accounts of the case.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfmarsGirl
    It seems like the BPD was interested in Patsy's rings too. I think we may have hit the nail on the head. Notice how Trujillo, in a round-about way, comes back to the jewelry issue twice in this clip from Patsy's April, 1997 interview:
    Excellent find and excellent post, WolfmarsGirl!




    IMO

  3. #3
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    Ha!

    What was it Toth said about women sleeping with jewellery on?
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Member of Websleuths since April 2000

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles
    What was it Toth said about women sleeping with jewellery on?
    Yes, I think we were arguing with Toth about women taking off their jewelery or not. He insisted we did. Most of us agreed that we don't normally remove it.

    I think that was on the thread you started about the rings. That thread got kind of burried, so I started this one. I will go look at your thread to find Toth's quote...Be back
    The above is my opinion only based on published accounts of the case.

  5. #5
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    Here is what Toth said:


    Originally Posted by Toth:

    "Essential to the 'ring theory' is that at the time of this supposed bedwetting incident Patsy would have had to have been wearing her rings in the middle of the night.

    Not totally impossible, though highly unlikely."


    Uh huh...
    The above is my opinion only based on published accounts of the case.

  6. #6
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    WolfmarsGirl... I still think your ring theory is right on the money. BTW, those rings didn't happen to get burgled during the Atlanta gentleman burglar incident, did they?
    The intruder is innocent! JMO

  7. #7
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    Britt, you mean the incident when the gentleman dapper tied John in the crapper? lol

    I have always suspected that the mysterious Atlanta intruder conveniently made off with some evidence pertinent to the JonBenet case. Does Patsy still have the rings she wore in 1996? Are they visible in any photos of her taken after the Atlanta incident? If not, my guess would be that the burglar stole them...er, yeah, that's the ticket...the burglar stole them, uh huh, yup.

  8. #8
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    LOL, Ivy. The perps in the R's lives seem to have been the 'kinder, gentler" kind. I can just see John stomping up and down in the bathroom while he was 'locked' in there. Bravery is not his middle name....nope.

  9. #9
    Patsy most likely would not have removed her wedding ring...but then she is right-handed. Was she wearing a ring on her right finger the morning of the 26th? If she grabbed JonBenet by the shirt collar then she most likely would have used her right hand.

    We can go through pictures of Patsy and look for a ring on her right hand...everyone can help out.
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toltec
    We can go through pictures of Patsy and look for a ring on her right hand...everyone can help out.
    Already did, Toltec. See post #7 on the Patsy's Rings thread on page 2. The photo was in the National Enquirer, December 3, 2002, issue, page 49.
    The intruder is innocent! JMO


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Britt
    WolfmarsGirl... I still think your ring theory is right on the money. BTW, those rings didn't happen to get burgled during the Atlanta gentleman burglar incident, did they?

    Thanks, Britt.

    Yes, I think they had "K-Mart" jewelry stolen, or something along those lines, if I remember correctly.

    It might just be a coincidence, but who knows?

    Surely, someone out there has answered questions about Patsy's rings on the night of the 25th...
    The above is my opinion only based on published accounts of the case.

  12. #12
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    WolfmarsGirl,

    Help! I need a refresher course about the rings. As I remember, you suggest the "stun gun" marks on JonBenet could actually be little twin contusions from Patsy's rings on her fingers. Did you mean the ring marks got there before JonBenet died, or during the killing, or after death, (such as when she first discovered the body)?

    There were twin "stun gun" marks at three locations on JonBenet's body -- the right side of the face; the left side of the back; and the back of the left leg near the ankle. Would Patsy's rings have made the marks at all three locations?


    JMO

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    WolfmarsGirl,

    Help! I need a refresher course about the rings. As I remember, you suggest the "stun gun" marks on JonBenet could actually be little twin contusions from Patsy's rings on her fingers. Did you mean the ring marks got there before JonBenet died, or during the killing, or after death, (such as when she first discovered the body)?

    There were twin "stun gun" marks at three locations on JonBenet's body -- the right side of the face; the left side of the back; and the back of the left leg near the ankle. Would Patsy's rings have made the marks at all three locations?


    JMO
    Here, BC. I will quote myself from a thread from last year below. I have added additional information after the post:

    ...
    I have a theory about the "stun gun" marks. First of
    all, does anyone know if Patsy wore any rings on a
    regular basis, or if she had any on at the White's
    party? I'll get back to that thought in a moment.

    Anyway, as peculiar as this sounds, I had a dream last
    night about JB. Ok, so I am doped up on cold medicine,
    so give me a little bit of room here, lol.

    Basically, in the dream, I was holding JB, in a way I
    often hold my own little girl. It was just a flash of
    a second in my dream, but the whole thing even made
    sense in the morning.

    So, I tried the 'dream hold' on my daughter today.
    Yes, she thinks I am nutty, lol, but I figured that a
    good hug between us is welcomed at any time, no matter
    what my motive.

    I sat on the floor with my child in my lap, with her
    legs both hanging over my left leg. She was kind of
    sitting up, laying her weight on her left hip, facing
    me. I held her head in my right hand and the fingers
    on my right hand ended up on her right cheek and/or or
    on her neck. So, I gave her a kiss on the nose, lol...

    My left arm was over her right side and my left hand
    ended up, quite naturally, on the lower, left side of
    her back.

    This is typically how I hold her when I 'rock' my
    great-big baby girl, or when I carry her quickly in a
    rain-storm (when walking would be too slow), or any
    other time I have to move her in a hurry and I want to
    get a good grip on her and hold her close at the same
    time.

    Try it with your own child. Make sure his or her face
    is close to your face (and don't forget the kiss on
    the nose.) This hug kind of looks like holding a
    guitar.

    Now, back to Patsy's rings (or not). Now, if PR
    accidentally killed (or thought she killed) JB, there
    would have been a lot of squeezing and rocking with
    mother and child in this exact position. If PR was
    wearing two or more rings on each hand AND she held,
    and squeezed JB in this manner, (a little too hard out
    of grief and overwhelming anguish) would those rings
    leave marks similar to the "stun gun" marks? I think
    so.

    The positioning of where a grown-up's fingers would
    land on a child of JB's size match up perfectly to
    where the marks were found on her body. AND, the
    distance between the marks (within each set of marks)
    is just about the distance between two adult fingers.

    Of course, the rings would most likely have been on
    backwards. That is the only problem I have with this
    theory. However, as I am typing, two of my rings are
    reversed and they swing around constantly.

    I even thought about trying this trick with four
    smiley-faced-stamper rings. But, since I don't want my
    poor little girl to be too severely emotionally
    scarred by my obsessive sleuthing, lol, I didn't
    conduct this further experiment.
    +++++

    I did conduct an additional 'experiment.' I am
    posting a link to marks I made on the smooth part of
    my right hand. I squeezed my right hand with my left
    hand. I had two, round-cut rings on my left hand.
    Both rings are mounted with four-prongs.

    Please see the link below:

    http://www.geocities.com/wolfchick942003/photopage.html

    With very little effort, I was able to reproduce the
    exact markings I see on the autopsy photos of Jonbenet
    Ramsey.

    In addition, the marks fell approximately 3.5
    centimeters apart.

    As I outlined in my original post, the angle of the marks
    on Jonbenet (from the autopsy photos) line up in an
    identical pattern and angle to where an adult's
    fingers would rest if that adult was holding a child
    as I described. It is crucial to note that this is a
    very common position for a parent (typically a mom) to
    hold and/or rock their small child.

    The positions are the same. The markings made by me
    are nearly identical to the marks on Jonbenet's body.

    Once again:
    *The positions of the marks can be explained, within a
    fraction of an inch.
    *The distance between two marks of either pair of
    marks can be explained.
    *The angle of the marks (extremely important!) can be
    explained.
    *The 'weapon' or cause of the marks can be explained.
    * If Patsy's rings made the marks, then evidence, or
    at least witnesses can testify to their existence.
    *Both the occurence of the marks and the location of
    the marks can be easily re-created in any court room.
    * This theory explains why 'stun gun' marks are NOT
    equidistant (as they would be expected to be) on the
    body of Jonbenet....



    There is also another set of marks on JBR's calf, I believe. I will be back on that...wolfkid needs to be tucked in.

    The above is my opinion only based on published accounts of the case.

  14. #14
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    BC, I think, the marks on JBR's lower leg could have been made when Patsy grabbed the child when she initially realized what she had done. Maybe, she pulled her close to her by grabbing her leg.

    Maybe, JBR was falling (down the stairs, perhaps?) and Patsy grabbed at her to prevent the fall, only managed to grab her leg and the child bashed her head anyway...

    I have not given too much thought the the marks on the leg because I have never seen a photo of them. Perhaps they were completely different from the other abrasions.

    I think all of these injuries occured while JBR was near death. I don't think she was dead yet. But, she was certainly very close.

    Either your BDI scenario or my PDI scenario could fit here. Patsy did not have to be the perp to rock and hold her child the way I described.

    Regarding the leg marks specifically, if Patsy found JBR knocked out and strangled, I think she would have grabbed her in this same fashion. Maybe, she just saw the child's leg sticking out under something and panicked and squeezed too hard while she pulled.
    The above is my opinion only based on published accounts of the case.

  15. #15
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    Wolfee,

    The photo on the left is your hand; but is the photo on the right you or a JonBenet autopsy photo? It appears to be JonBenet but just wanna make sure.

    JMO

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