Disposing of evidence

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Jayelles

Jayelles

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I see a post elsewhere asking why the killer disposed of the roll of duct tape and the cord. My guess is that either the killer knew there might be forensic evidence on them, or he used all there was of them. If he had handled the roll of duct tape at any point previously, he might want to pull a load of tape off the roll to get to a point that hadn't been touched. Use that, and dispose of the rest (think of how you pick up a roll of tape - fingerprints would be all over the inside and outside of the roll).
 
Jayelles,

This assumes that originally there was a roll of tape and cord. Both items may have been lying around having previously been used in wrapping Xmas gifts?

The duct tape over JonBenet's mouth appeared so suspicious Fleet White was compelled to return to the wine-cellar to take another look.

The same reasoning applies to her underwear, was she wearing any when killed, did the BPD find a worn Wednesday pair of size-6's on her bedroom floor, or even washed out elsewhere?

Now had there existed a roll of tape or cord, then why could JonBenet's killer not have simply wiped these items clean as was done with the flashlight?

Similar reasoning applies to the ransom note, authored in the Ramsey house using their pad and pen.

Then there is the missing piece of the Paintbrush Handle used to construct the garrote. Why dispose of this and leave the other parts behind?

This lack of consistency allows speculation that the missing piece was left inside JonBenet, and that this detail was redacted from the Autopsy Report?


.
 
UKGuy said:
The duct tape over JonBenet's mouth appeared so suspicious Fleet White was compelled to return to the wine-cellar to take another look.
Click to expand...

Wonder what looked so suspicious about the piece of tape? It was reported that there were no imprints on it, suggesting that it was staging. However, I wonder what prompted a return to the basement due to this particular item.
 
Guys, I don't know about the cord, but I'm really suspecting the tape came from JonBenet's Molly doll. If that's the case, then it's very possible that the roll of tape was used up way before Christmas 96, or may have never even been in the Ramsey house. I believe Molly was a gift from Nedra, given to JB in September 96. I don't know where they were when JB got the Molly doll, but if she wasn't at home, then the tape that could have been used to secure the string may never have been in the R house.

The tan fibers on the tape, consistent with the doll's body, and the order of a new Molly doll right after JonBenet was killed just seem to be a little too suspicious (not to mention Pam Paugh retrieving the AG dolls from the R house in her one-woman raid), and when you add in that the tape appeared to have been used elsewhere before it was applied to JB's face, it seems possible that the tape came off the Molly doll, which was replaced.
 
Nuisanceposter said:
Guys, I don't know about the cord, but I'm really suspecting the tape came from JonBenet's Molly doll. If that's the case, then it's very possible that the roll of tape was used up way before Christmas 96, or may have never even been in the Ramsey house. I believe Molly was a gift from Nedra, given to JB in September 96. I don't know where they were when JB got the Molly doll, but if she wasn't at home, then the tape that could have been used to secure the string may never have been in the R house.

The tan fibers on the tape, consistent with the doll's body, and the order of a new Molly doll right after JonBenet was killed just seem to be a little too suspicious (not to mention Pam Paugh retrieving the AG dolls from the R house in her one-woman raid), and when you add in that the tape appeared to have been used elsewhere before it was applied to JB's face, it seems possible that the tape came off the Molly doll, which was replaced.
Click to expand...

Thats what I think too! It wasn't sticky, because it had previously used before, on the AG doll. One, exactly like it....being ordered and delivered to John's office...is just a "tad" suspicious. (You know...the Ramsey's DO remind me of the Kennedy family in some ways....they both think that they are untouchable). That took alot of cahunas (pardon the expression) ....for John to have that doll ordered and delivered to his office...IMO He probably thought that nobody would even notice. But what difference did it make....he still isn't in prison.
 
Ames said:
Thats what I think too! It wasn't sticky, because it had previously used before, on the AG doll. One, exactly like it....being ordered and delivered to John's office...is just a "tad" suspicious. (You know...the Ramsey's DO remind me of the Kennedy family in some ways....they both think that they are untouchable). That took alot of cahunas (pardon the expression) ....for John to have that doll ordered and delivered to his office...IMO He probably thought that nobody would even notice. But what difference did it make....he still isn't in prison.
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Ames, tell me about John's ordering the doll, when, etc. Thanks Ames.
 
Nehemiah said:
Wonder what looked so suspicious about the piece of tape? It was reported that there were no imprints on it, suggesting that it was staging. However, I wonder what prompted a return to the basement due to this particular item.
Click to expand...

Nehemiah,

Probably that it did not look kosher, likely dry, with other debri on the sticky side, it may also have lacked the stickyness factor, and if he was really observant, no lip impression from JonBenet.

Fleet White's testimony would have been considered very important here, since other than JR he is the only other person that viewed the crime-scene in its original state, although he compromised the evidence, what he saw likely changed his mind from kidnap to domestic homicide, and I would be willing to bet, what would have appeared innocent past events wrt JonBenet may have been percieved through a new sexual abuse perspective?

Yes something about JonBenet's death caused Fleet White to question what he had just seen, on the surface it appeared as if they had just found JonBenet's corpse, the result of an intruder assault, but against orders he returned to the crime-scene to take another look. I think he knew he had been looking at a staged crime-scene, and wanted to confirm this?


.
 
Nuisanceposter said:
Guys, I don't know about the cord, but I'm really suspecting the tape came from JonBenet's Molly doll. If that's the case, then it's very possible that the roll of tape was used up way before Christmas 96, or may have never even been in the Ramsey house. I believe Molly was a gift from Nedra, given to JB in September 96. I don't know where they were when JB got the Molly doll, but if she wasn't at home, then the tape that could have been used to secure the string may never have been in the R house.

The tan fibers on the tape, consistent with the doll's body, and the order of a new Molly doll right after JonBenet was killed just seem to be a little too suspicious (not to mention Pam Paugh retrieving the AG dolls from the R house in her one-woman raid), and when you add in that the tape appeared to have been used elsewhere before it was applied to JB's face, it seems possible that the tape came off the Molly doll, which was replaced.
Click to expand...


Nuisanceposter,

Yes quite likely, when you add in the return of the size-12's years later, which could have been purchased from bloomingdales at any point, then the tape being sourced from the doll makes sense, as does the AG Office order to act as a replacement?


.
 
Solace said:
Ames, tell me about John's ordering the doll, when, etc. Thanks Ames.
Click to expand...
Hi, I will see if I can find that for you. Calling other posters...please help me out on this one. I do not have time to look for it right now...I have errands to run...but, will when I get home. Until then, maybe someone else can dig that up for you. It shouldn't be hard to find...
 
Nuisanceposter said:
I'm on it.



Start here.

http://www.geocities.com/pinker44/

Here is another thread on another board discussing the dolls - http://www.topix.net/forum/news/jonb...448UBBHBIB3/p2

And at FFJ -

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...%3DGirl%3Ddoll

And Miss Marple's wiki -

http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/The%20Body

http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/Ram...0It%20Theories

http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/Fiber%20Evidence
Click to expand...
You are the best NuisancePoster and thank you also Ames.
 
Solace said:
You are the best NuisancePoster and thank you also Ames.
Click to expand...
Sorry that I couldn't find it for you...THANKS NUISANCEPOSTER....I feel like such a slacker. :eek:
 
SuperDave said:
NP's hotter than a stove lid.
Click to expand...

aaaahaha good analogy but yes she/he is. I've never heard of these dolls until now. Thanks for the links NP.
 
Ames said:
Sorry that I couldn't find it for you...THANKS NUISANCEPOSTER....I feel like such a slacker. :eek:
Click to expand...
You are both excellent and fast with every response.
 
Solace said:
You are both excellent and fast with every response.
Click to expand...

:blushing: Awwww...shucks....thank you.
 
Don't feel like a slacker, Ames, and thanks, guys. I compiled these links a two or three weeks ago when I really started thinking about the tape and the fibers and the doll, so all I had to do was go copy them here. I'm just glad others have been discussing this for me to follow and learn from.

If those fibers and the piece of tape came from the Molly doll, imo, that further distances the possibility that an intruder was the killer. I think a killer definitely would have brought their own tape for the job, and I have a REALLY hard time believing that the killer would have known about tape on AG dolls and lucked out by finding just such a doll, with tape on it, to place on JonBenet's face. I also don't believe this killer would have gone and ordered another Molly doll in JonBenet's name after the murder, and I have to wonder...with all Pam was fetching - passports, christening gowns, funeral clothes, golf bags - why the AG dolls? JonBenet didn't need them anymore, and according to Patsy, being around things that reminded her of her lost daughter gave her anxiety attacks.

I find it odd that this particular bit of evidence and theory concerning the dolls and tape has been overlooked as long as it has, and I really have to wonder, if the Rs did not order a new doll, why they never thought it odd or suspicious that a replacement for Molly was ordered in JB's name and sent to Access Graphics and had that looked into.
 
Nuisanceposter said:
Don't feel like a slacker, Ames, and thanks, guys. I compiled these links a two or three weeks ago when I really started thinking about the tape and the fibers and the doll, so all I had to do was go copy them here. I'm just glad others have been discussing this for me to follow and learn from.

If those fibers and the piece of tape came from the Molly doll, imo, that further distances the possibility that an intruder was the killer. I think a killer definitely would have brought their own tape for the job, and I have a REALLY hard time believing that the killer would have known about tape on AG dolls and lucked out by finding just such a doll, with tape on it, to place on JonBenet's face. I also don't believe this killer would have gone and ordered another Molly doll in JonBenet's name after the murder, and I have to wonder...with all Pam was fetching - passports, christening gowns, funeral clothes, golf bags - why the AG dolls? JonBenet didn't need them anymore, and according to Patsy, being around things that reminded her of her lost daughter gave her anxiety attacks.

I find it odd that this particular bit of evidence and theory concerning the dolls and tape has been overlooked as long as it has, and I really have to wonder, if the Rs did not order a new doll, why they never thought it odd or suspicious that a replacement for Molly was ordered in JB's name and sent to Access Graphics and had that looked into.
Click to expand...

Nuisanceposter,

It has been discussed before, but imo its a plausible explanation of the evidence.

Maybe like the size-12's we need to see pictures of the AG Dolls tape etc, and if they match what was placed over JonBenet's lips, then I would say, Bingo, Gotcha!


.
 
Nuisanceposter said:
I find it odd that this particular bit of evidence and theory concerning the dolls and tape has been overlooked as long as it has, and I really have to wonder, if the Rs did not order a new doll, why they never thought it odd or suspicious that a replacement for Molly was ordered in JB's name and sent to Access Graphics and had that looked into.
Click to expand...
Do we know for a fact that this theory HASN'T been looked into? Not saying it has or hasn't, but I will say that I'm fairly certain that us Ramsey case internet followers aren't privy to every avenue LE explored in regards to the case. Just because it hasn't been posted on the net (as far as I am aware) doesn't mean it was overlooked, does it?
 
Good questions, julianne. All I can go on is what I know.

I had never heard of the AG doll/tape theory until a few months ago, after the Karr scandal. I don't know that this theory hasn't been looked into, but based on the fact that in all my reading on the case I had never even heard of it until it was brought up by someone who worked for the company and saw the order, I surmise that it hasn't been looked into...but then, just because I hadn't heard of it doesn't mean it wasn't looked into.

Same with the Rs and suspicion. My copy of DOI was published in 2000, and I have to assume that if the Rs knew of the order for a new doll in JB's name sent to JR's office that they would have brought it up in their book and wondered to investigators where who ordered it and why, like with the shabby bear that made headlines when Patsy asked about it. I have never heard any interviewer ask the Rs about it, never heard them mention it, and have also never heard of Lou Smit or Steve Thomas following any leads regarding the doll...so I have guessed that they didn't. But again, just because I haven't heard of it does not mean it hasn't happened, it just means I haven't heard of it yet.

I find it odd that the only investigation of the tape and its relation to the Molly doll I have learned of has been done by people like me, sitting at their computers doing their own research. I'm even hard pressed to find info about the tape - other than ST saying it was black and had perfect lip prints and no sign of struggle, and both ST and Dr Lee saying it had been previously used elsewhere, I haven't found any detail.
 
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