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  1. #1
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    keeping it straight

    I am a new member to this site although I have long enjoyed reading the informative posts. I have been working on the Routier case for the last year as a case study for my Master's in Forensic Science. I have presented on this case 2 times and will have 2 final presentations that will start to address the physical evidence, crime scene, and conflicting issues and ultimately I will be asked to assume a resolution based on the facts. All of you in this forum are probably aware of the MANY contrasting opinion, timelines, and "facts" that this case presents. It is difficult for me to bring all of the information together because there seems to be so many different versions. After a year, (I realize the majority on this site have many more) I still find myself going back and forth on determining guilt. There are times that I am incredibly certain that Darlie has got to be guilty, yet, within weeks I end up doubting my certainty. I am sure it is the mother in me that would like to believe that it just could not be possible. I am attempting to finalize my paper outlining the physical evidence, processing results, and admissibility issues. Needless to say, I feel my paper is all over the place. I have a surplus of information but the majority is biased in direction and opinion. I am interested in any advice, thought, or suggestion that any of you might be inclined to provide. I find you all to be incredibly informed and welcome any and all additional thoughts that may help me pull this case together

  2. #2
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    Hi Jody! Welcome to WS!

    I had a few things to say about Darlie and why I believe SHE did it.

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=524

    Also, since you are studying forensics how to view this? Does it make sense for her to have the knife wounds she did, and NO cuts on her hands or fingers from fighting someone off "attacking" her with a knife? It seems any person automatically tries to grab a knife away. If she was too frightened to do anything, she'd have many serious STABBING wounds. After all, an "intruder" that would slaughter children would show no mercy attacking her either. No "intruder" blood, hair or any other DNA was left that I know of. If I was in a fight for my life, there'd be plenty of DNA evidence someone was there! Knowing my babies were in the same room with me, it WOULD be a fight for my life or to take his. Oh...and Darin slept through the whole thing. I heard a neighbor of mine fighting with her husband 2 doors down and across the street from me late one night, and I had my tv on. That ruckus woke up a lot of my neighbors, because it's usually very quiet on my street.

    Her statement about "frightening" the "intruder" is ridiculous unless, like I stated in another post, she was pointing a loaded gun at "him". Nothing she claims happened or did makes any common sense. As far as I'm concerned the state of Texas can't put the needle in her fast enough! Of course this is all JMO.

    Good luck doing your presentation!!!!!!

  3. #3
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    Jan 2007
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    Council Bluffs, Iowa
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    SadieMae,
    First off, thank you so much for your reply and thoughts. I share many of your thoughts. I have spent the last 6 months studying "typical" profiles of a vast array of perps. The one resounding conclusion that kept coming to my mind is that "typical" is constantly redefining itself. It seems the more the complex the case is the more need there is to let go of what is considered to be the "typical" situation, personality, and scene. From a forensic standpoint, Locard's principle of exchange makes my opinion of anyone other than Darlie or/and having a hand in this nearly impossible. As a mother I could not agree with you more, (I cringe at even thinking) there would be NO WAY that my entire neighborhood would not be aware that something terrible had happened. Not to mention I would be carrying my babies searching for help...do ANYTHING I could do to save them. The 911 call for me would have been just long enough to beg for help and direction of how to perform CPR if I didn't know how...I truly just can not make any normalcy out of Darlie's actions. Again, that brings me back to trying to be careful in not comparing her actions as WRONG just because they are on the opposite side of the spectrum as mine...well, probably of the majority. When watching the silly string situation I was trying my hardest to tell myself that it is not up to me to judge the appropriate way for a person to grieve. I am aware that some people can not deal with pain and loss and react strangely or even uncaring...this in itself should not have a lot of weight on determining guilt. Back to my main point, I just think if there was an intruder, there would be UNMISTAKEABLE proof. My biggest obstacle in pulling this paper together is trying to present the facts, minus the opinions on all sides. I do not disagree with the defense team believing that investigators felt Darlie was involved within the first 20 minutes. It would be very difficult to not make this assumption given her actions and the overall scene. I guess for whatever reason I want to believe that it is not possible for a mother to look in her children’s eyes while stabbing them to death. In the past year it felt I had more reasons to doubt her guilt but it seems it is getting harder to justify those reasons.



  4. #4
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    Mar 2005
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    Jody I really didn't look at the silly string birthday "celebration" as having anything to do with her guilt. When my Dad died of a heart attack, 2 months after my Mom and my siblings were at his grave for his birthday. There were balloons and cards brought there by us and my parents friends. We all sang Happy Birthday to him and ate birthday cake at the gravesite. I lit one of his favorite cigars and put it on the headstone & we all had a shot of his favorite scotch. My Mom did this because my Dad loved balloons and cake on his birthday. (He grew up very poor and never had that as a kid) My Mom continues to do this for him, after 13 years now. Well I guess if anyone driving by saw the party, they might think it odd.

    I don't have any clue to the reason Darlie did it. No motive what so ever. The crime makes no sense, and there wasn't a great amount of financial gain involved. But there have been many other senseless killings by mothers. So I suppose there really doesn't have to be a reason or mental illness involved. Facts are facts, and they don't point to an intruder. Leaving all emotion out of this of what you or I would do as mother's, the Routier home, comparing it to hundreds of other home invasion scenes, had no evidence of an intruder.

  5. #5
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    Jan 2007
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    Council Bluffs, Iowa
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    SadieMae,

    You are right. It is very difficult at times to leave emotions of what we might have done out of the equation. I have listed all of the "physical" evidence in my paper and now will need to focus this week on the "issues", issues with admissability, chain of custody, handling, processing...I think that may make up a bigger bulk of my paper. There were so many issues, contridictions, appeals, ect...Hopefully it will all come to me easier than the first part of my paper...it feels a little choppy to me..hopefully as I near the end I will be able to go back and smooth it over. What made you interested in this case? How long have you been following? I really do appreciate you sharing your thoughts with me.

  6. #6
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    Aug 2005
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    Hi Jodyy and welcome. I have been interested in Darlie since the murder's happened. I for the life of me can't fathom how a mom could do this and I sit on the fence as to her guilt. I want to believe she is innocent and like you it is probably the mom in me. I also do not understand how darin slept through it. My biggest question is, don't you think those boys made noises being stabbed? I am sure the terror and the pain ect.....was there and they would have yelled. I can't get past that. If that is the case and they made noise, where was darin? I have so many questions, I feel like I am running in circles though.

  7. #7
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    Michelle,


    I find myself wondering the same. There HAD to be noise..there is just no way all of the events as Darlie described happened without there being noise. Even the hardest of sleepers (especially a parent) would be awoken by a child hurting/dying. What is your thoughts on Darlies injuries?

  8. #8
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    Aug 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jodyy
    Michelle,


    I find myself wondering the same. There HAD to be noise..there is just no way all of the events as Darlie described happened without there being noise. Even the hardest of sleepers (especially a parent) would be awoken by a child hurting/dying. What is your thoughts on Darlies injuries?
    I agree with the noise part. I also think her wounds look bad. But, I wonder where are her defense wounds? I think I remember her saying she "woke up to the attacker"? I can't remember?? It is just too fishy, the whole thing. It can go both ways with me. I am on the fence. I really need to go read the transcripts, all of them! It is just so many!! I think she looks like she was beat, but I cant help but wonder where are the knife wounds on her hands. I know one thing, my son would scream bloody murder if he was being stabbed and I would hear and fight till the death. 2 boys being stabbed, I just dont get it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by michelle
    I agree with the noise part. I also think her wounds look bad. But, I wonder where are her defense wounds? I think I remember her saying she "woke up to the attacker"? I can't remember?? It is just too fishy, the whole thing. It can go both ways with me. I am on the fence. I really need to go read the transcripts, all of them! It is just so many!! I think she looks like she was beat, but I cant help but wonder where are the knife wounds on her hands. I know one thing, my son would scream bloody murder if he was being stabbed and I would hear and fight till the death. 2 boys being stabbed, I just dont get it.
    I have always just gone by my gut feeling on cases like this. The first time I saw Susan Smith on tv, I told my DH the b*tch is lying and she killed her boys. He argued that car jackings happen all the time. Well every case I've heard about involving a kid in the car, the first thing they do is either dump the car or kid in a place where they will be quickly found. Stealing a car is one thing, getting a kidnapping /murder charge (20+ years prison) is not what they wanted a car for! During the same time I watched a story with DH on the local news of a mother who had her child abducted from a Walmart. I pointed out the differences in their behavior. I FELT that womans distress begging for the return of her child through the tv!!! Susan's voice on tv was insincere and phony to me. I feel the same way about Darlie. Call it a woman's intuition, mom's intuition or whatever...but I haven't been wrong yet.

    I agree Darlie had some serious "looking" wounds, but those weren't made by a man that just killed two kids. Those boys weren't a threat to an intruder, Darlie and Darin would have been. Her kids were being repeatedly stabbed while she was "asleep" in the same room, and they didn't make one sound?? I'm a sound sleeper, but I still hear when one of my boys gets up for the bathroom at night, even though I don't hear the traffic outside my bedroom window when I'm sleeping.
    The only unanswered question I have in this case is WHY?

  10. #10
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    Aug 2005
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    9,915
    Quote Originally Posted by SadieMae
    I agree Darlie had some serious "looking" wounds, but those weren't made by a man that just killed two kids. Those boys weren't a threat to an intruder, Darlie and Darin would have been. Her kids were being repeatedly stabbed while she was "asleep" in the same room, and they didn't make one sound?? I'm a sound sleeper, but I still hear when one of my boys gets up for the bathroom at night, even though I don't hear the traffic outside my bedroom window when I'm sleeping.
    The only unanswered question I have in this case is WHY?
    I agree, I wonder why as well. I mean what is the motive? Was it that she was depressed and thought that getting rid of the boys would help her? She still had the baby left. I just dont get it. Could darin had done it? I can't even think of why he would, it just makes no sense. Its a very senseless murder. All murders are senseless to me but this one, it just really baffles me. I can say how I would act and I would have called 911 threw the phone down and been with my babies, she stayed on the phone talking. I dont get that. I also dont get how there was no noise, I am telling you those kids had to of been yelling. Poor things, I hate to think about it.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jodyy
    SadieMae,
    First off, thank you so much for your reply and thoughts. I share many of your thoughts. I have spent the last 6 months studying "typical" profiles of a vast array of perps. The one resounding conclusion that kept coming to my mind is that "typical" is constantly redefining itself. It seems the more the complex the case is the more need there is to let go of what is considered to be the "typical" situation, personality, and scene. From a forensic standpoint, Locard's principle of exchange makes my opinion of anyone other than Darlie or/and having a hand in this nearly impossible. As a mother I could not agree with you more, (I cringe at even thinking) there would be NO WAY that my entire neighborhood would not be aware that something terrible had happened. Not to mention I would be carrying my babies searching for help...do ANYTHING I could do to save them. The 911 call for me would have been just long enough to beg for help and direction of how to perform CPR if I didn't know how...I truly just can not make any normalcy out of Darlie's actions. Again, that brings me back to trying to be careful in not comparing her actions as WRONG just because they are on the opposite side of the spectrum as mine...well, probably of the majority. When watching the silly string situation I was trying my hardest to tell myself that it is not up to me to judge the appropriate way for a person to grieve. I am aware that some people can not deal with pain and loss and react strangely or even uncaring...this in itself should not have a lot of weight on determining guilt. Back to my main point, I just think if there was an intruder, there would be UNMISTAKEABLE proof. My biggest obstacle in pulling this paper together is trying to present the facts, minus the opinions on all sides. I do not disagree with the defense team believing that investigators felt Darlie was involved within the first 20 minutes. It would be very difficult to not make this assumption given her actions and the overall scene. I guess for whatever reason I want to believe that it is not possible for a mother to look in her children’s eyes while stabbing them to death. In the past year it felt I had more reasons to doubt her guilt but it seems it is getting harder to justify those reasons.

    I think you will find the investigators knew within 30 minutes that an intruder had not entered that house not that Darlie was involved. I believe Darin was the first suspect anyway.

    I too do not equate the Silly String party with guilt. Although, I do think she looks very happy....the source of stress is gone.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by michelle
    I agree, I wonder why as well. I mean what is the motive? Was it that she was depressed and thought that getting rid of the boys would help her? She still had the baby left. I just dont get it. Could darin had done it? I can't even think of why he would, it just makes no sense. Its a very senseless murder. All murders are senseless to me but this one, it just really baffles me. I can say how I would act and I would have called 911 threw the phone down and been with my babies, she stayed on the phone talking. I dont get that. I also dont get how there was no noise, I am telling you those kids had to of been yelling. Poor things, I hate to think about it.
    That's why by the time of the trial Darlie had acquired Traumatic Amnesia. You know Darlie just thinks she can say something and she'll be believed. She knows now that no one believes she slept through her sons being murdered just feet away from her..especially Damon....he was right beside her. No one believes she slept through having her neck cut. Especially given her reason for sleeping downstairs in the first place.

    I don't think too many people believe that Darin slept through the stabbings and awoke hearing a fragile wine glass breaking on the floor.

    Their lies make no sense. If you are innocent, why lie about the circumstances surrounding the crime? Darlie's story is not consistant with the physical evidence.

    I don't spend a lot of time on motive. No one knows why another kills. The evidence tells me Darlie committed this crime. There's no other explanation for it.

  13. #13
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    Cool evidence

    The forensic evidence lies in the hands of Libby Johnson (you may want to do a search on her) and should be presented whenever a hearing date is set. The print in blood on the utility room door from what I understand has never been tested either. As for knowing there was no intruder within 30 minutes.....if she is guilty or not, I don't believe a conclusion should be done at that time......examine the evidence and let it lead you, not find a destination and find the quickest route there. JMHO.
    Is Darlie guilty??? I don't know

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma
    The forensic evidence lies in the hands of Libby Johnson (you may want to do a search on her) and should be presented whenever a hearing date is set. The print in blood on the utility room door from what I understand has never been tested either. As for knowing there was no intruder within 30 minutes.....if she is guilty or not, I don't believe a conclusion should be done at that time......examine the evidence and let it lead you, not find a destination and find the quickest route there. JMHO.
    Is Darlie guilty??? I don't know
    That is excellent advice enigma.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jodyy
    I am a new member to this site although I have long enjoyed reading the informative posts. I have been working on the Routier case for the last year as a case study for my Master's in Forensic Science. I have presented on this case 2 times and will have 2 final presentations that will start to address the physical evidence, crime scene, and conflicting issues and ultimately I will be asked to assume a resolution based on the facts. All of you in this forum are probably aware of the MANY contrasting opinion, timelines, and "facts" that this case presents. It is difficult for me to bring all of the information together because there seems to be so many different versions. After a year, (I realize the majority on this site have many more) I still find myself going back and forth on determining guilt. There are times that I am incredibly certain that Darlie has got to be guilty, yet, within weeks I end up doubting my certainty. I am sure it is the mother in me that would like to believe that it just could not be possible. I am attempting to finalize my paper outlining the physical evidence, processing results, and admissibility issues. Needless to say, I feel my paper is all over the place. I have a surplus of information but the majority is biased in direction and opinion. I am interested in any advice, thought, or suggestion that any of you might be inclined to provide. I find you all to be incredibly informed and welcome any and all additional thoughts that may help me pull this case together
    HI Jodyy and welcome. First of all, I'm sure you will do a wonderful job on your paper. You are off to a great start.

    I have followed Darlie's case for quite a long time and I'm sure she is guilty. I have come to the conclusion due to certain facts. The first reason is that Darlie does not present any defensive wounds for a person that is fighting off an intruder. This just does not make any sense to me! I would think she would present with various wounds all over her hands and possibly other places. This is the number one reason I'm sure she is guilty. I always relate this case to a few other ones that have been discussed.

    If anyone harmed my children, I would fight them off and they would have taken my life too. This makes no sense either.
    I can't imagine anyone sleeping through this type of ordeal while their children are being attacked. The scene must have been very loud during the stabbings and it does not seem possible. In fact, I find it impossible. I'm sure you have explored that too.

    The silly string episode was insane but it does not make her guilty but just shows stupidity (IMO). As everyone has stated, "people grieve in their own way." I do not know Darlie's motive but it could be the children were a source of stress (as mentioned) and she could not handle being a mother along with being a wife. I'm not sure. I think she was also dissatisfied with her life. I just know there was not an intruder. I'm stuck on guilty.

    I think you will find the People on this forum have much knowledge and great views on this case. I know I have learned alot.

    Good luck
    Gozgals

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