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The Killing Season - Websleuths

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View Poll Results: Why Were There 17 Inches Of Cord Between The Wrist Ligatures?

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37. You may not vote on this poll
  • Rigormortis had started setting in, and her arms/wrists couldn't move closer.

    11 29.73%
  • The Ramsey's were in a hurry to finish the staging.

    13 35.14%
  • None of the above.

    13 35.14%

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  1. #1
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    Why Were There 17 Inches Of Cord Between The Wrist Ligatures?

    I would like to know, what everyone's opinion is, about the spacing of cord between the wrist ligatures. I have wondered if maybe the wrist ligatures were placed on JB after all of the rest of the staging was done....including after the writing of the ransom letter, therefore causing enough time lapse for rigormortis to start setting in. Maybe her wrists could not be bound together, because of this. Since the Ramsey's (I believe) were staging a crime scene...then, why not bind her hands TOGETHER? What kind of intruder, binds someones wrists...with 17 inches of cord between them? My thinking is, that the Ramsey's would have bound her wrists together...IF they could have...to make it more realistic. But, they couldn't...because too much time had passed during the rest of the staging...and rigormortis had started setting in. What do YOU guys think??
    "This time we get it right."

  2. #2
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    I think John liked to tie JB's hands to her bed post while he molested her and he just left the restraints on because they left marks and the police would know she was restrained and find the cords he used, so he left them on JB to make it look like an intruder left the hand ties behind when they fled.

  3. #3
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    I think they already had a certain amount of cord and when they decided to use that cord, they wanted to use it all so there was none left to link it to.

    I have no idea who they thought they were going to fool by staging the wrist restraint scene like they did. There's no way a child tied like that would be restrained by it. If you want to restrain a person, you tie their hands together so the hands are touching each other, and behind their backs....not in front of them with that much length between them. You certainly don't tie the restraint over the person's sleeve cuff.

    This wrist restraint scene is another argument for head wound first - there are no defense wounds on JonBenet, and no skin under her nails from clawing at the killer or her own neck. No bruises or abrasions on her wrists from struggling to free herself from restraints. The way her hands were tied would not have prevented her from struggling or fighting back - but being unconscious would.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuisanceposter
    I think they already had a certain amount of cord and when they decided to use that cord, they wanted to use it all so there was none left to link it to.

    I have no idea who they thought they were going to fool by staging the wrist restraint scene like they did. There's no way a child tied like that would be restrained by it. If you want to restrain a person, you tie their hands together so the hands are touching each other, and behind their backs....not in front of them with that much length between them. You certainly don't tie the restraint over the person's sleeve cuff.

    This wrist restraint scene is another argument for head wound first - there are no defense wounds on JonBenet, and no skin under her nails from clawing at the killer or her own neck. No bruises or abrasions on her wrists from struggling to free herself from restraints. The way her hands were tied would not have prevented her from struggling or fighting back - but being unconscious would.
    Ames: I will probably get slammed for this theory also, but what the hey. I think that the whole staging thing was horrific and the thought of tying her tightly was getting to them and they did not do it. They put her favorite nightgown there, they wrapped her up "lovingly". I think they intentionally did not tie her hands tightly - it is hard enough doing all they other $$%# they did to her.

  5. #5
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    17 Inches of Cord

    If you accept that the wine-cellar is a staged crime-scene and that its likely that a prior staging was abandonded in favor of the wine-cellar, then the cord may have been intended for another purpose, say tethering JonBenet inside some container before being dumped outdoors?


    Whichever way you want to sequence it either the garrote was constructed then the cord applied to her wrists or vice versa, probably to add a bondage theme to the staging with the surplus cord?


    .

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy
    If you accept that the wine-cellar is a staged crime-scene and that its likely that a prior staging was abandonded in favor of the wine-cellar, then the cord may have been intended for another purpose, say tethering JonBenet inside some container before being dumped outdoors?


    Whichever way you want to sequence it either the garrote was constructed then the cord applied to her wrists or vice versa, probably to add a bondage theme to the staging with the surplus cord?


    .
    I have a very hard time with your theory that they may have planned to take JonBenet and flee with her body but rethought it. I just think John is smarter than that. He would know, especially after reading Douglas' book, that if she were not found, the FBI is going to scour every single part of that house, every part of it. The FBI did arrive but not until she was found. John claims differently, But they would have been there if it were still considered a kidnapping and there is no way that John would believe that they would overlook the cellar. Not imo anyway.

  7. #7
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    bondage theme

    Good question, Ames; I'm glad you broached it.

    Your guess that the wrist cord may have been affixed while the arms were in rigor is logical. I once mentioned it myself. It's buttressed by the fact that the arms were stretched (thrust) beyond ("above") her head. One might guess that it was "late-stage" staging alright.

    I once thought there may have been an attempt to emulate the scene in Ransom where the boy is chained hand and foot to the bed, his arms thrust back somewhat similarly to JonBenet's. Of course, as you know, JB wasn't "chained" to anything when they found her.

    It's my understanding that the cord had been tied rather loosely to the wrists, and that there were no marks on them to indicate that she had fought them. That fits with your guess also. Thomas mentioned that they would hardly have restrained a living child.

    In DOI, John seems to have embraced the bondage theme; he said her hands were free to move. Yet, in his early interviews he said the wrists were bound together tightly and he tried in vain to untie them; though when he brought the body upstairs only one wrist (the right one) had cord tied to it.

    I agree that this wrist cord, allowing the freedom of movement of the arms, might be suggestive of "snuff sex", whether practiced or pretended; it certainly doesn't suggest kidnapping gone awry. Neither does the sexual abuse, nor the strangulation "garrote", nor, perhaps, the cracked skull.

    For me, that wrist cord is somewhat of a headscratcher. I've yet to "hear" a totally satisfactory explanation for it. Since I don't know what to make of it, I have to vote "undecided".

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solace
    Ames: I will probably get slammed for this theory also, but what the hey. I think that the whole staging thing was horrific and the thought of tying her tightly was getting to them and they did not do it. They put her favorite nightgown there, they wrapped her up "lovingly". I think they intentionally did not tie her hands tightly - it is hard enough doing all they other $$%# they did to her.
    Nah, I don't think that you will get slammed...LOL. I see what you are saying....BUT...I would think that tying her hands together, would seem like a piece of cake to them, after having inserted a paintbrush into her vagina. Tying her hands together would have been the "lesser of the two evils"....so to speak. This would be that scenario....PATSY: "Let's insert this paintbrush into her vagina, and damage it....to make it look like a sexual predator did it." John: "Okay, that would be a great idea, that will really throw the investigators off". Patsy: "What should we do next, John?" John: "Let's see....I know, lets restrain her hands like a sexual predator would do...only...because we care about her and love her so much, lets leave a good bit of cord between the wrist restraints, because I just couldn't bare binding her wrists together". Patsy: "Yeah, me neither...."
    "This time we get it right."

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames
    Nah, I don't think that you will get slammed...LOL. I see what you are saying....BUT...I would think that tying her hands together, would seem like a piece of cake to them, after having inserted a paintbrush into her vagina. Tying her hands together would have been the "lesser of the two evils"....so to speak. This would be that scenario....PATSY: "Let's insert this paintbrush into her vagina, and damage it....to make it look like a sexual predator did it." John: "Okay, that would be a great idea, that will really throw the investigators off". Patsy: "What should we do next, John?" John: "Let's see....I know, lets restrain her hands like a sexual predator would do...only...because we care about her and love her so much, lets leave a good bit of cord between the wrist restraints, because I just couldn't bare binding her wrists together". Patsy: "Yeah, me neither...."
    Hi Ames, but I don't think it was done this lightly. I think hell was in session for both of them. You can see it in the handwriting on the note. It shakes. I just feel the act of tying her hands is horrible (as well as what you described), but in the staging we do see wrapping her up like a papoose and also her favorite nightgown. I just get the feeling that it is part of the staging but there is also the fact that they wish they did not have to do this. I know John said her hands were tied so tight that he could not get the rope off and then on another occasion, he says the opposite. Her hands were not tied tight. I think it was hard for them to do that.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuisanceposter
    I think they already had a certain amount of cord and when they decided to use that cord, they wanted to use it all so there was none left to link it to.
    Yeah, maybe. Why not cut it though, and place what was left inside something to conceal it, the way that I believe that they concealed the original panties that she was wearing that night?

    I have no idea who they thought they were going to fool by staging the wrist restraint scene like they did. There's no way a child tied like that would be restrained by it. If you want to restrain a person, you tie their hands together so the hands are touching each other, and behind their backs....not in front of them with that much length between them. You certainly don't tie the restraint over the person's sleeve cuff.
    I agree....that whole wrist restraint scheme....screams staging. I personally have never heard of anyone being "retrained" before...by having their wrist loosely tied over the cuffs of their sleeves....and 17 inches of cord between each wrist....and the wrists not even being bound BEHIND the back. Well....there is ONE person....if we are to believe the Ramsey's intruder theory....JONBENET. Yeah, right. There is NO way that would have restrained her. And IF she had been strangled FIRST...those loosely bound hands, with 17 inches of cord between them, in FRONT of her...would have been clawing at her neck, and trying to remove that cord, so that she could breathe. IMO


    This wrist restraint scene is another argument for head wound first - there are no defense wounds on JonBenet, and no skin under her nails from clawing at the killer or her own neck. No bruises or abrasions on her wrists from struggling to free herself from restraints. The way her hands were tied would not have prevented her from struggling or fighting back - but being unconscious would.
    I totally agree!!!
    "This time we get it right."


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solace
    Hi Ames, but I don't think it was done this lightly. I think hell was in session for both of them. You can see it in the handwriting on the note. It shakes. I just feel the act of tying her hands is horrible (as well as what you described), but in the staging we do see wrapping her up like a papoose and also her favorite nightgown. I just get the feeling that it is part of the staging but there is also the fact that they wish they did not have to do this. I know John said her hands were tied so tight that he could not get the rope off and then on another occasion, he says the opposite. Her hands were not tied tight. I think it was hard for them to do that.
    I agree that hell was in session for the both of them! I am sure that during their conversations, it was nothing like what I described in my post, I am sure there was screaming and crying and franticness (is THAT a word?) in their voices. You could be right about your theory, though....since they DID wrap her up in that blanket...I believe though, that the nightgown had been in the dryer...along with the blanket...and that when Patsy removed the blanket from the dryer, the gown came out with it, due to static cling. My daughter has several Barbie nightgowns...and they all have that problem. So, I do not believe that the nightgown was placed there....John even said in one of his interviews...that the gown...wasn't SUPPOSED to be there. Yeah, JOHN...and your DAUGHTER wasn't supposed to BE THERE EITHER!!! I believe that he slipped up when he said that...meaning that the gown wasn't part of the staging.
    "This time we get it right."

  12. #12
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    Talking

    [QUOTE=Nuisanceposter]I think they already had a certain amount of cord and when they decided to use that cord, they wanted to use it all so there was none left to link it to.

    NP: Yours is the best answer so far, imo.

    You are always great to read.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solace
    I have a very hard time with your theory that they may have planned to take JonBenet and flee with her body but rethought it. I just think John is smarter than that. He would know, especially after reading Douglas' book, that if she were not found, the FBI is going to scour every single part of that house, every part of it. The FBI did arrive but not until she was found. John claims differently, But they would have been there if it were still considered a kidnapping and there is no way that John would believe that they would overlook the cellar. Not imo anyway.
    Solace,

    Well you would have hard time, since I never used the word flee. or the word they.

    Hopefully bullet points will not be required.

    If you author a ransom note then an obvious consequence should be that the abducted person is indeed abducted.

    To fulfill this condition JonBenet's body should be dumped outdoors.

    This was not done and was one of the major red flags when considering who to suspect.

    What I was suggesting was that JonBenet may have been initially wrapped inside the blankets which were then bound by the cord, with the intention to dump her corpse outdoors, hence Patsy's decision to wear yesterday's clothing.

    For some unknown reason this course of action was abandoned, leaving the wine-cellar scenario as Plan-B.

    The loose tethering of JonBenet's wrists is theatrical, its a bondage theme, added to supplement the garrote, and its violent effect.

    .

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy
    Solace,

    Well you would have hard time, since I never used the word flee. or the word they.

    Hopefully bullet points will not be required.

    If you author a ransom note then an obvious consequence should be that the abducted person is indeed abducted.

    To fulfill this condition JonBenet's body should be dumped outdoors.

    This was not done and was one of the major red flags when considering who to suspect.

    What I was suggesting was that JonBenet may have been initially wrapped inside the blankets which were then bound by the cord, with the intention to dump her corpse outdoors, hence Patsy's decision to wear yesterday's clothing.

    For some unknown reason this course of action was abandoned, leaving the wine-cellar scenario as Plan-B.

    The loose tethering of JonBenet's wrists is theatrical, its a bondage theme, added to supplement the garrote, and its violent effect.

    .
    I also believe that the wine cellar was "Plan B"...and that they had at first intended to get rid of the body...maybe that was John's idea...and Patsy couldn't bare the thoughts of it, for some reason...or maybe they just ran out of time.
    "This time we get it right."

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy
    Solace,

    Well you would have hard time, since I never used the word flee. or the word they. You implied it and I inferred it from your post. Get over yourself UK.

    Hopefully bullet points will not be required. UK, you love yourself way too much. You need a lesson in humility. Do they have any of that where you are? Your day is not complete unless there is sarcasm inolved or is that just the UK way?

    If you author a ransom note then an obvious consequence should be that the abducted person is indeed abducted. UK, your post made it clear that you were voicing that the Ramseys put her in the wine cellar so she would not be found and hence they would have time to leave the area. An idea I find "out there". Also, if that was there intent and they decided against it in favor of Plan B, why did they leave the ransom note on the stairs with JonBenet in the cellar. Since it is so obvious, please let me have the answer to that one.

    To fulfill this condition JonBenet's body should be dumped outdoors. Right, so they could be seen a hundred different ways. You are not giving John much credit here.

    This was not done and was one of the major red flags when considering who to suspect.

    What I was suggesting was that JonBenet may have been initially wrapped inside the blankets which were then bound by the cord, with the intention to dump her corpse outdoors, hence Patsy's decision to wear yesterday's clothing. Well just leave this one alone.

    For some unknown reason this course of action was abandoned, leaving the wine-cellar scenario as Plan-B. Probably because any moron would know it would not work.

    The loose tethering of JonBenet's wrists is theatrical, its a bondage theme, added to supplement the garrote, and its violent effect. No argument.

    .
    Uk, one of the major red flags of this case is the parents are usually the culprits. A major red flag is the FBI agent saying "look at the parents". A major red flag is the similarity in the Patsy's handwriting. And a major red flag is John trying to leave immediately. A major red flag is the Ramseys lawyering up. A major red flag is Patsy saying "we did not mean for this to happen". A major red flag is their having Berke leave immediately. A major red flag is one of the officers hearing John apologize for what happened and I could go on.

    But I think even you will agree the major of major red flags is the similarity of the handwriting of the ransom note.

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