Head blow vs strangulation

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santos1014

santos1014

Nana to Madelynn and Ethan
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I know this has been covered here somewhere and I have looked to no avail. If someone could be so kind to direct me, or just continue it here....I do have a question.

The autopsy shows, from what I understand of it, that there was little bleeding in the head wound. If the head wound came first, seems to me there would have been substantial bleeding inside the skull that would have shown up during the autopsy...leads one to believe that the strangulation came first. I don't feel that way, but reading the autopsy makes me stop and wonder....

Perhaps, I have misunderstood...if so, someone clarify for me please.
 
santos1014 said:
I know this has been covered here somewhere and I have looked to no avail. If someone could be so kind to direct me, or just continue it here....I do have a question.

The autopsy shows, from what I understand of it, that there was little bleeding in the head wound. If the head wound came first, seems to me there would have been substantial bleeding inside the skull that would have shown up during the autopsy...leads one to believe that the strangulation came first. I don't feel that way, but reading the autopsy makes me stop and wonder....

Perhaps, I have misunderstood...if so, someone clarify for me please.
Click to expand...
It's possible that it happened this way...a head blow knocked her out, Patsy thought that she was dead...the staging and strangulation occurred...and in part of the staging..she could have been hit on the head a second time...with THAT time being the one that bashed her skull in. That would explain the lack of substantial bleeding inside the skull. IMO
 
Ames said:
It's possible that it happened this way...a head blow knocked her out, Patsy thought that she was dead...the staging and strangulation occurred...and in part of the staging..she could have been hit on the head a second time...with THAT time being the one that bashed her skull in. That would explain the lack of substantial bleeding inside the skull. IMO
Click to expand...
Not bad Ames. Rashomon posted that there was a substantial amount of blood even though Cyril Wecht says maybe a few teaspoons. Steve Thomas said she was hemmorhaging.
 
What if she was strangled and hit (causing the large skull fracture) at the same time? With someone grabbing her by the collar and twisting it,and striking her at the same time? If she passed out just a tad prior to falling down from the fracture...could blood pressure have been lowered so that it caused less hemmorhaging in the brain??
 
JMO8778 said:
What if she was strangled and hit (causing the large skull fracture) at the same time? With someone grabbing her by the collar and twisting it,and striking her at the same time? If she passed out just a tad prior to falling down from the fracture...could blood pressure have been lowered so that it caused less hemmorhaging in the brain??
Click to expand...
Good point! She may have had a weak heartbeat...therefore...slowing the speed of blood running through her body. This is the most likely scenario...I have thought this before.
 
Solace said:
Not bad Ames. Rashomon posted that there was a substantial amount of blood even though Cyril Wecht says maybe a few teaspoons. Steve Thomas said she was hemmorhaging.
Click to expand...
Whatever the case may be....a few teaspoons....hemmoraging.....the head blow came FIRST. IMO There is NO doubt in my mind...
 
Ames said:
Good point! She may have had a weak heartbeat...therefore...slowing the speed of blood running through her body. This is the most likely scenario...I have thought this before.
Click to expand...
And/or I wonder if it's possible that she may have went into an irregular heart rythmn from pressure on the vagus nerve when being strangled?That could lower BP and have caused her to pass out(?) Maybe someone thought her dead at this point,and she wasn't..thus the head blow was done if she regained conciouness?(b/f the ligature strangling).Is this what caused the scream that was heard??
 
JMO8778 said:
And/or I wonder if it's possible that she may have went into an irregular heart rythmn from pressure on the vagus nerve when being strangled?That could lower BP and have caused her to pass out(?) Maybe someone thought her dead at this point,and she wasn't..thus the head blow was done if she regained conciouness?(b/f the ligature strangling).Is this what caused the scream that was heard??
Click to expand...
Could be, but I believe that she was out cold, during the strangulation. I believe that the scream that was heard was a frantic Patsy.
 
Ames said:
Could be, but I believe that she was out cold, during the strangulation. I believe that the scream that was heard was a frantic Patsy.
Click to expand...
Possible as well.I have to wonder if it was PR screaming after she came out of a psychotic episode and realized JB was dead.The neighbor may have heard a female scream,not necessarily a child's scream.In that case,it *could have been a boy screaming as well.But it doesn't sound like that was the case.
Thinking back to the 911 call,PR did have a high voice in it.
 
santos1014 said:
I know this has been covered here somewhere and I have looked to no avail. If someone could be so kind to direct me, or just continue it here....I do have a question.

The autopsy shows, from what I understand of it, that there was little bleeding in the head wound. If the head wound came first, seems to me there would have been substantial bleeding inside the skull that would have shown up during the autopsy...leads one to believe that the strangulation came first. I don't feel that way, but reading the autopsy makes me stop and wonder....

Perhaps, I have misunderstood...if so, someone clarify for me please.
Click to expand...
My guess is when that little piece of skull was displaced it allowed blood to seep out. So instead of having the blood between the skull and the brain, it is between the skull and the scalp.


-Tea
 
icedtea4me said:
My guess is when that little piece of skull was displaced it allowed blood to seep out. So instead of having the blood between the skull and the brain, it is between the skull and the scalp.


-Tea
Click to expand...
But wouldn't that very thing, the blood between the skull and the scalp, cause a bruise? TIA
 
I read the article,but can someone answer this..which way is he saying he thinks JB was hit with the flashlight?Was someone standing in front of her,or from behind,when she was struck?
 
JMO8778 said:
I read the article,but can someone answer this..which way is he saying he thinks JB was hit with the flashlight?Was someone standing in front of her,or from behind,when she was struck?
Click to expand...

JMO8778,

Answering this one might help explain what occurred.

But why do you whack your six-year old daughter on the head with a flashlight, unless you really mean to kill her.

Using the flashlight is not quite the same as a slap or a punch etc, there was such force used her skull was caved in, and that was accidental?


.
 
UKGuy said:
JMO8778,

Answering this one might help explain what occurred.

But why do you whack your six-year old daughter on the head with a flashlight, unless you really mean to kill her.

Using the flashlight is not quite the same as a slap or a punch etc, there was such force used her skull was caved in, and that was accidental?


.
Click to expand...
The flashlight was wiped down and left on the kitchen counter on purpose. This child was thrown against a hard surface such as the bathtub or the edge of the sink. The batteries in the flashlight are wiped down purposely to throw the police off and left on the table on purpose.
 
JMO8778 said:
Possible as well.I have to wonder if it was PR screaming after she came out of a psychotic episode and realized JB was dead.The neighbor may have heard a female scream,not necessarily a child's scream.In that case,it *could have been a boy screaming as well.But it doesn't sound like that was the case.
Thinking back to the 911 call,PR did have a high voice in it.
Click to expand...
Have you ever been frantic...and screamed? Yes, your voice is a bit higher pitched than normal...that's why I think it was Patsy.
 
Solace said:
The flashlight was wiped down and left on the kitchen counter on purpose. This child was thrown against a hard surface such as the bathtub or the edge of the sink. The batteries in the flashlight are wiped down purposely to throw the police off and left on the table on purpose.
Click to expand...
I believe this is what happened also. I believe that the flashlight...was part of the staging. I also think that it was one of the Ramsey's walking around with it, that one of the neighbor's say that they saw. And I believe they walked around with it ON PURPOSE, JUST IN CASE a neighbor were to see. I do not believe that the flashlight was used in the murder.
 
Ames said:
I believe this is what happened also. I believe that the flashlight...was part of the staging. I also think that it was one of the Ramsey's walking around with it, that one of the neighbor's say that they saw. And I believe they walked around with it ON PURPOSE, JUST IN CASE a neighbor were to see. I do not believe that the flashlight was used in the murder.
Click to expand...
You are right on Ames. It is such an obvious staging also. They would have us believe that the "intruder" purposely wiped off the flashlight and left it there so they would not be identified because we know that the Ramseys wouldn't do this.
 
Solace said:
You are right on Ames. It is such an obvious staging also. They would have us believe that the "intruder" purposely wiped off the flashlight and left it there so they would not be identified because we know that the Ramseys wouldn't do this.
Click to expand...
This may be a stupid question, but how does LE know that something has been "wiped off..or clean"?
 
Solace said:
You are right on Ames. It is such an obvious staging also. They would have us believe that the "intruder" purposely wiped off the flashlight and left it there so they would not be identified because we know that the Ramseys wouldn't do this.
Click to expand...
Thats the only explanation for leaving the flashlight out in plain sight....with it wiped clean of prints. If it wasn't meant for staging and actually had been used, they would have hidden it, or destroyed it....the fact that it was wiped clean, and left in full view...points to the fact that they didn't just forget that it was there. It was wiped clean...including the batteries...and then placed on purpose where investigators would see it. The flashlight was just another prop...in their planned out staged cover-up. And apparently it has worked...because there are so many IDI's out there...that think that the intruder just wiped the flashlight off, (including the batteries)...after using it to smash JB's head in....and then he just left in in plain view. Theres also some RDI's that think that the flashlight was the weapon, and the Ramsey's forgot that it was left out....again...I will say...WHY take the flashlight after using it as a weapon, wipe it clean...(including the batteries)...and then place it in full view of the police/investigators? The Ramsey's NOR an intruder would have wiped it clean, after using it....and then leave it in full few, instead of disposing of it..UNLESS it was merely a prop...part of the staging.
 
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