Sex Offender Causes Stir at Nev. Church

Beyond Belief

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RENO, Nev. (AP) -- A Lutheran congregation is grappling with how to deal with a convicted sex offender who says his church attendance is an important step toward rehabilitation.

Clergy and members at Lutheran Church of the Good Shepherd say they're in a quandary over how to protect their children while following in Christ's footsteps and welcoming a stranger.

"Clearly, we are called to love," said the Rev. Rebecca Schlatter, associate pastor. "But is it safe to love this particular person up close?"

The church has offered a covenant of 17 conditions to Calvin Brugge, who says he will sign it. Among other restrictions, he can only attend the 7:30 a.m. Sunday service, and he's barred from using the restroom or attending church-sponsored functions that include children.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CHURCH_SEX_OFFENDER?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US
 
Sorry, but I would change my membership over to another church, a really strict one.
 
What an interesting dilemma. He says he is willing to sign the contract of 17 restrictions (boundaries) that the church has set up for him, so that's a good sign. But he is a 3rd-tier offender and they have high rates of recidivism, as do all pedophiles.

Christ himself hung around the worst of the worst and preached for their inclusion and salvation, so no true Christian church could model itself differently.

I personally would rather know the demon. (ie. if you know who the pedophile is, you can react accordingly and talk to your kids accordingly and make choices about whether or not you want to attend the church that allows them accordingly)

Chances are this church (and if not this one, then certainly other ones) have other pedophiles in the pews. At least this one tells you what he is...I'm doubting the ones who haven't been caught are so forthright.

Who is the Church for, if it's not for sinners?
 
The guy said that attending church is an important part of his rehabilitation. I didn't see any words saying that he is healed because he knows that it was evil and by calling it rehabilitation he is saying that it is some illness or addiction instead. A true Christian would never want to put other Christians in such distress and I think that pedophiles should not be allowed to be near any children even in church. They could join a home study group and have visits from the pastor.
 
txsvicki said:
The guy said that attending church is an important part of his rehabilitation. I didn't see any words saying that he is healed because he knows that it was evil and by calling it rehabilitation he is saying that it is some illness or addiction instead. A true Christian would never want to put other Christians in such distress and I think that pedophiles should not be allowed to be near any children even in church. They could join a home study group and have visits from the pastor.
I think the very fact that he is even interested in rehabilitation (many pedophiles are NOT) shows that he believes his behavior was wrong (or evil, as you put it). He has agreed not to attend any church sponosred function where children would be present and to go to only the early service where there are no children.

Christians put other Christians (and non-Christians) in distress daily - that's why we attend church - to presumably learn to not do that so regularly. It seems a dangerous precedent for a church to deny access to certain types of sinners. Who's next - alcoholics, adulterers, prostitutes, people who have premarital sex, people who envy their neighbors, people who take the Lords' name in vain, people who don't tithe? Where do we draw the line at the love and salvation offered to us all regardless of our sinful natures?

I think it says a great deal (all good) about the pastor of this church that he is willing to work with this man to have a spiritual community and still keep members of the congreration as safe as possible.
 
southcitymom said:
What an interesting dilemma. He says he is willing to sign the contract of 17 restrictions (boundaries) that the church has set up for him, so that's a good sign. But he is a 3rd-tier offender and they have high rates of recidivism, as do all pedophiles.

Christ himself hung around the worst of the worst and preached for their inclusion and salvation, so no true Christian church could model itself differently.

I personally would rather know the demon. (ie. if you know who the pedophile is, you can react accordingly and talk to your kids accordingly and make choices about whether or not you want to attend the church that allows them accordingly)

Chances are this church (and if not this one, then certainly other ones) have other pedophiles in the pews. At least this one tells you what he is...I'm doubting the ones who haven't been caught are so forthright.

Who is the Church for, if it's not for sinners?
I applaud this post, especially the last question you ask.
 
Jesus said that it would be better for someone who hurts a little one to tie a millstone around his neck and fling himself into the sea. The Bible is very clear to preachers and congregations about putting those who continue in sin out of the congregation, for example the man who married his stepmother. I am concerned that this pedophile is one of the types who whines that he is ill and addicted by saying that his step towards rehabilitation requires church attendance. The word rehabilitation is usually used for drug or alcohol addictions or illness. I don't see how an early service would be a guarantee that no children would be around. I guess some people accept that pedophilia is some illness and don't mind having them around flaunting it, but that is why I am not a member of any liberal churches and look very closely at the wording used to describe things that have underlying meanings and goals.
 
txsvicki said:
Jesus said that it would be better for someone who hurts a little one to tie a millstone around his neck and fling himself into the sea. The Bible is very clear to preachers and congregations about putting those who continue in sin out of the congregation, for example the man who married his stepmother. I am concerned that this pedophile is one of the types who whines that he is ill and addicted by saying that his step towards rehabilitation requires church attendance. The word rehabilitation is usually used for drug or alcohol addictions or illness. I don't see how an early service would be a guarantee that no children would be around. I guess some people accept that pedophilia is some illness and don't mind having them around flaunting it, but that is why I am not a member of any liberal churches and look very closely at the wording used to describe things that have underlying meanings and goals.
The Bible also says that "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Additionally, Christ is very clear in these instructions: "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

Jesus was equally clear when Peter asked him about this : "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. "

If we put everyone who attends church but continues to sin out of church congregations, we would have no more church congregations. I miss the mark daily as does, I am sure, the pastor of my church. I've yet to meet a human being who was able to become perfect and without sin through church attendance. The road to salvation is a journey fraught with peril for us all!

There is no indication that this man is continuing to act out on his pedophiliac urges. I don't understand how this man being honest about his pedophelia consititutes him flaunting his pedophelia. As I said in an earlier post, I'd much rather know about the pedophile who might be sitting next to me in a pew than not know. By being honest about his pedophelia, this man is allowing people to make informed decisions.

Rehabilitation is a word often used in the study and treatment of pedophiles. As in "It is very very difficult to rehabilitate a pedophile." While there is some debate as regards the subject, pedophelia is currently considered a paraphelia and a mental illness per the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). So the people that know the most about pedophelia and the people who treat pedophiles consider it to be an illness.
 
I am all for forgiveness, but pedofiles tend to act when the opportunity arises and while his intentions may be good, it is hard for me to believe (given the recidivism statistics) that he is safe around families with children. He may believe that he will not act out again and he may truly wish to be "cured" but there are no guarantees.

I would not take the chance. I can be forgiving and loving, but NOT at the expense of the virtue and innocense of my children.

Would you want a recovering alcoholic driving your child's school bus? They may be going to AA, they may have paid their time for their DUIs, but would you risk the lives of your children and embrace this school bus driver with open arms because you are a Christian? You never know when that bus driver might have a rough day and go on a bender prior to picking your kids up from school. It is the same thing, IMO.
 
southcitymom said:
What an interesting dilemma. He says he is willing to sign the contract of 17 restrictions (boundaries) that the church has set up for him, so that's a good sign. But he is a 3rd-tier offender and they have high rates of recidivism, as do all pedophiles.

Christ himself hung around the worst of the worst and preached for their inclusion and salvation, so no true Christian church could model itself differently.

I personally would rather know the demon. (ie. if you know who the pedophile is, you can react accordingly and talk to your kids accordingly and make choices about whether or not you want to attend the church that allows them accordingly)

Chances are this church (and if not this one, then certainly other ones) have other pedophiles in the pews. At least this one tells you what he is...I'm doubting the ones who haven't been caught are so forthright.

Who is the Church for, if it's not for sinners?

SCM, yr my hero.
:blowkiss:

Chalk up another "SCM took the words out of my post." What you said is amazing. One of the first things I thought of when I read this was, "Wait, Mary Magdalene was a hooker and Peter was a tax collector right? Weren't the rest of 'em sinners too?" *off to watch Jesus Christ Superstar again- my Lenten addiction*
 
Melisinde said:
SCM, yr my hero.
:blowkiss:

Chalk up another "SCM took the words out of my post." What you said is amazing. One of the first things I thought of when I read this was, "Wait, Mary Magdalene was a hooker and Peter was a tax collector right? Weren't the rest of 'em sinners too?" *off to watch Jesus Christ Superstar again- my Lenten addiction*
Such an amazing show! :blowkiss:
 
Forwarned is forarmed. Chances are 100% that pedofiles and alcoholics ARE driving schoolbusses, attending churches and are even our bosses, co workers, FRIENDS and maybe family. Where do you think these people are, under rocks?

There are many recovering alcoholics I have met that I'd trust to drive my child around way before I'd trust a stranger. A stranger could be way worse.


mrsjonnob said:
I am all for forgiveness, but pedofiles tend to act when the opportunity arises and while his intentions may be good, it is hard for me to believe (given the recidivism statistics) that he is safe around families with children. He may believe that he will not act out again and he may truly wish to be "cured" but there are no guarantees.

I would not take the chance. I can be forgiving and loving, but NOT at the expense of the virtue and innocense of my children.

Would you want a recovering alcoholic driving your child's school bus? They may be going to AA, they may have paid their time for their DUIs, but would you risk the lives of your children and embrace this school bus driver with open arms because you are a Christian? You never know when that bus driver might have a rough day and go on a bender prior to picking your kids up from school. It is the same thing, IMO.
 
txsvicki said:
Sorry, but I would change my membership over to another church, a really strict one.
I would certainly never attend a church that would turn away a sinner who is earnestly seeking help.

Good thing there is a church for everyone, so we can all go where we are comfortable. :)
 
GlitchWizard said:
Forwarned is forarmed. Chances are 100% that pedofiles and alcoholics ARE driving schoolbusses, attending churches and are even our bosses, co workers, FRIENDS and maybe family. Where do you think these people are, under rocks?

There are many recovering alcoholics I have met that I'd trust to drive my child around way before I'd trust a stranger. A stranger could be way worse.
I am sure they ARE everywhere, but as a parent and a victim of one of these "pillars of the community" I choose not to purposely put my children around KNOWN pedofiles. Period. EVER.

There was registered sex offender who attended my church a few years ago (I saw his picture on the Megans Law, site) and while I do not know the reasons for his conviction, I was always leary of my kids even using the bathroom alone at church.

I know, I know, in a church with 350 members, it is likely there are a couple more pervs there and I am always reserved about my kids' safety, but if i know for a fact that one person has been a threat at some point, knowing how unlikely it is they can be rehabilitated, then you can bet the farm I am going to keep my kids close to me. That is my job as a parent.

Yes, I admire this person for coming to church, but I was blessed with children to protect and while I can't spare them every sad event life holds for them, if I know there is a predator nearby, I will certainly defend them.
 
mrsjonnob said:
I am sure they ARE everywhere, but as a parent and a victim of one of these "pillars of the community" I choose not to purposely put my children around KNOWN pedofiles. Period. EVER.

There was registered sex offender who attended my church a few years ago (I saw his picture on the Megans Law, site) and while I do not know the reasons for his conviction, I was always leary of my kids even using the bathroom alone at church.

I know, I know, in a church with 350 members, it is likely there are a couple more pervs there and I am always reserved about my kids' safety, but if i know for a fact that one person has been a threat at some point, knowing how unlikely it is they can be rehabilitated, then you can bet the farm I am going to keep my kids close to me. That is my job as a parent.

Yes, I admire this person for coming to church, but I was blessed with children to protect and while I can't spare them every sad event life holds for them, if I know there is a predator nearby, I will certainly defend them.
Well that's the nice thing about this pedo - people know what he is because he told them and they can respond accordingly to this information. It's the ones we don't know about that feel more threatening.

I was more interested in the church's response as a whole than individual members.

True story: when I was about 12, I attended the Baptist Church in our small southern town pretty regularly with my Mom. A series of rapes was taking place in this same small town. Finally - they caught the rapist. He turned out to be the husband of one of my Mom's good friends (who lived 2 houses away from us) and - yep, you guessed it - a deacon at the Baptist Church we attended.

When I was younger, I used to say (and believe) that I learned the meaning of the word hypocrite by attending church - where men (and women) with feet of clay inevitably failed to live up to the expectations of the Church or of a trusting and holier-than-thou young girl's mind. As I got older and learned that everyone (self included) had feet of clay, I realized that what I really learned in church was about the common threads which unite us all in this often messy business of humanity.
 
southcitymom said:
Well that's the nice thing about this pedo - people know what he is because he told them and they can respond accordingly to this information. It's the ones we don't know about that feel more threatening.

I was more interested in the church's response as a whole than individual members.

True story: when I was about 12, I attended the Baptist Church in our small southern town pretty regularly with my Mom. A series of rapes was taking place in this small town. Finally - they caught the rapist. He turned out to be the husband of one of my Mom's good friends (who lived 2 houses away from us) and - yep, you guessed it - a deacon at the Baptist Church we attended.

When I was younger, I used to say (and believe) that I learned the meaning of the word hypocrit by attending church - where men (and women) with feet of clay inevitably failed to live up to the expectations of the Church or of a trusting young girl's mind. As I got older and learned that everyone (self included) had feet of clay, I realized that what I really learned in church was about the common threads which unite us all in this often messy business of humanity.
That is true, and agree with you.

I admire this man's desire to attend church. I truly do.

There are creeps, pervs and hypocrits everywhere, but some crimes/addictions/perversions only hurt the sinner... others hurt innocent victims. This is where my compassion comes to a halt and my desire to protect the innocent supercedes my desire to be a "good Christian" and embrace a pedofile with open arms.
 
mrsjonnob said:
That is true, and agree with you.

I admire this man's desire to attend church. I truly do.

There are creeps, pervs and hypocrits everywhere, but some crimes/addictions/perversions only hurt the sinner... others hurt innocent victims. This is where my compassion comes to a halt and my desire to protect the innocent supercedes my desire to be a "good Christian" and embrace a pedofile with open arms.
Do you think - as compassionate, yet realistic people - we can do both? This church seems to be trying to both embrace the sinner and protect the innocent. I don't think the two have to be mutually exclusive.
 
southcitymom said:
Do you think - as compassionate, yet realistic people - we can do both? This church seems to be trying to both embrace the sinner and protect the innocent. I don't think the two have to be mutually exclusive.
No, they do not have to be mutually exclusive. If I didn't have children attending services with me, it would be much easier for me to focus on loving the pedofile and helping him to overcome him weaknesses. But because I do have small children, *their* needs come first and that means protecting them from potential trauma. My kids safety come before the feelings of a child predator, even if he claims to be "saved".
 
mrsjonnob said:
No, they do not have to be mutually exclusive. If I didn't have children attending services with me, it would be much easier for me to focus on loving the pedofile and helping him to overcome him weaknesses. But because I do have small children, *their* needs come first and that means protecting them from potential trauma. My kids safety come before the feelings of a child predator, even if he claims to be "saved".
Yes, I hear you. It is, as I said before, a very interesting dilemma from both a spiritual and a practical standpoint. Sometimes it seems easier to love the sinner when we do not know their specific sins.

Christians are often called upon not to do anything that would cause their brethren to fall into sin or stray from a righteous path. So an argument could even be made that to bring children around an admitted pedophile would be tantamount to placing temptation into the path of someone given to that particular sin.

My mother used to make a similar argument against the Episcopal church which uses wine in its Holy Communion. She believed this to be hard on alcoholics, recovering or otherwise, and feared it could lead those so predisposed to drunkenness.

However, we all must learn to live harmlessly in a world filled with temptations at every corner. That's part of the path.
 
Yes, it's a mother's job to protect her young, but why would they relax their protection if this man were not allowed in? The other pedophiles are still there. You just don't know who they are.

I think I'd expect the parents at the church to be just as careful around EVERYONE as they are around this person who is being honest about his conviction.
 

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