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  1. #1

    Robert Ressler on JonBenet's Murder

    I wanted to read what Robert Ressler, a retired FBI Behavioral Scientist thought about the Ramsey murder.

    http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/E...046/ressb.html

    What really caught my eye was his take on the ransom note and why the word "we" was used.

    Ressler says that they are just trying to more or less conceal and distance themselves. To distance oneself by creating an impression that they're a much larger organization than in fact they are.

    Why a kidnapping note? To create in their own minds a hope that their dead daughter will be coming back!
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toltec
    I wanted to read what Robert Ressler, a retired FBI Behavioral Scientist thought about the Ramsey murder.

    http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/E...046/ressb.html

    What really caught my eye was his take on the ransom note and why the word "we" was used.

    Ressler says that they are just trying to more or less conceal and distance themselves. To distance oneself by creating an impression that they're a much larger organization than in fact they are.

    Why a kidnapping note? To create in their own minds a hope that their dead daughter will be coming back!
    He is a very interesting profiler. He worked with John Wayne Gacy and he basically submerged himself in the man's life.

  3. #3
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    Ressler Opinion Too Quick?

    I didn't read the article you're referencing, but I have a hunch it was written pretty early in the game, probably before he'd heard of Stanton's testimony of hearing metal (hitting and?) scraping on concrete near the vent duct. Or the fact that, as far as I know, we've never ever had a murder case in the news where someone was raped with a broken paint brush handle, not even Sybil's mother, but we have had instances of guys using foreign objects. One example, in a book about the Michigan co-ed murders, 2 or maybe 3 white cars were seen at the edge of a woods one night, down a dirt lane, and a woman's scream was heard, who was later found raped with part of a tree branch, and dead. Some of you may be able to cite additional examples that I didn't think at the time I'd need to remember.

    I have no opinion on who was or were the murderer or murderers, but very obviously intruders could have studied Patsy's handwriting while plotting this whole thing and could have written a ransom note.

    Ressler maybe just hadn't thought about all of it enough, or was going along with BPD. Parents sometimes kill, but absolutely nobody, in all this time, trying desperately, has been able to prove the bereaved Ramseys did this. It just can't be done , with what's known so far, let's face it.

    Keeping it simple hasn't worked. It's a complicated case, and evidently pre-meditated very carefully, professionally. But don't ask me what professional. I'm not in haters' and killers' inner circle. How would I know? None of us were there, I think it's safe to assume. Neither was Ressler, who failed to consider all these points.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle1
    I didn't read the article you're referencing, but I have a hunch it was written pretty early in the game, probably before he'd heard of Stanton's testimony of hearing metal (hitting and?) scraping on concrete near the vent duct. Or the fact that, as far as I know, we've never ever had a murder case in the news where someone was raped with a broken paint brush handle, not even Sybil's mother, but we have had instances of guys using foreign objects. One example, in a book about the Michigan co-ed murders, 2 or maybe 3 white cars were seen at the edge of a woods one night, down a dirt lane, and a woman's scream was heard, who was later found raped with part of a tree branch, and dead. Some of you may be able to cite additional examples that I didn't think at the time I'd need to remember.

    I have no opinion on who was or were the murderer or murderers, but very obviously intruders could have studied Patsy's handwriting while plotting this whole thing and could have written a ransom note.

    Ressler maybe just hadn't thought about all of it enough, or was going along with BPD. Parents sometimes kill, but absolutely nobody, in all this time, trying desperately, has been able to prove the bereaved Ramseys did this. It just can't be done , with what's known so far, let's face it.

    Keeping it simple hasn't worked. It's a complicated case, and evidently pre-meditated very carefully, professionally. But don't ask me what professional. I'm not in haters' and killers' inner circle. How would I know? None of us were there, I think it's safe to assume. Neither was Ressler, who failed to consider all these points.
    Hi Eagle:

    I did not realize that Stanton was that specific about where he heard the scraping metal. How could he know it was near the vent? It could be anywhere from around the house area?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Solace
    Hi Eagle:

    I did not realize that Stanton was that specific about where he heard the scraping metal. How could he know it was near the vent? It could be anywhere from around the house area?

    I don't believe he did...

    Steve Thomas said that the DA's office would not let BPD interview the Stantons???
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

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    You're Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Solace
    Hi Eagle:

    I did not realize that Stanton was that specific about where he heard the scraping metal. How could he know it was near the vent? It could be anywhere from around the house area?
    You're right. Stanton of course didn't mention where in the Rs' house the metal noise was coming from.

    There was testing to see whether sounds that carried across the street could have been heard on the third floor where the parents were, and it was reported I believe that because of the vent DUCT in the basment, Stanton could hear but the parents could not. I should have detailed that, sorry. It's my own assumption that it must have been near the duct.

    And that the bare concrete and the duct must have been close together in something like a furnace room, boiler room, or whatever it was called, with no floor tile. Was it a bad guess on my part? Would anyone disagree?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle1
    You're right. Stanton of course didn't mention where in the Rs' house the metal noise was coming from.

    There was testing to see whether sounds that carried across the street could have been heard on the third floor where the parents were, and it was reported I believe that because of the vent DUCT in the basment, Stanton could hear but the parents could not. I should have detailed that, sorry. It's my own assumption that it must have been near the duct.

    And that the bare concrete and the duct must have been close together in something like a furnace room, boiler room, or whatever it was called, with no floor tile. Was it a bad guess on my part? Would anyone disagree?
    the floor in the WC was concrete,of course..(most ppl know that by now,I think).It's been speculated the scraping sound was from paint cans,(which were found in the WC),being moved across the floor.Since it's unlikely an intruder who'd just committed murder would bother to put the grate BACK,thus risking making further noise...I think it was likely the paint cans.I think they were moved aside in order to accomodate JB's body.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778
    the floor in the WC was concrete,of course..(most ppl know that by now,I think).It's been speculated the scraping sound was from paint cans,(which were found in the WC),being moved across the floor.Since it's unlikely an intruder who'd just committed murder would bother to put the grate BACK,thus risking making further noise...I think it was likely the paint cans.I think they were moved aside in order to accomodate JB's body.

    JMO8778,

    I don't think that moving full paint cans out of the way would make enough noise to be heard through the furnace air duct to the outside and to the Stanton's house down the street. Cans of paint, unless empty, would make more of a thud sound. But at least we're beginning to think out of the box, which is sorely needed in this case.

    If I were an IDI enthusiast (which I am not because the Ramseys wouldn't be covering up for an intruder who killed their daughter), I would say the intruder used an aluminum ladder to access JonBenet's concrete balcony and enter her bedroom through the unlocked door from the balcony. The scraping noise heard by Luther Stanton would have been the intruder taking down the aluminum ladder and having it scrape against JonBenet's concrete balcony.

    BlueCrab

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    JMO8778,

    I don't think that moving full paint cans out of the way would make enough noise to be heard through the furnace air duct to the outside and to the Stanton's house down the street. Cans of paint, unless empty, would make more of a thud sound. But at least we're beginning to think out of the box, which is sorely needed in this case
    You'd be surprised at how well sound can travel,depending on various factors,one being even the wind.Even without it,I live over a mile away from a school,yet if conditions are just right,we can still hear football games,the band,clapping,cheering,etc.,as if it were right next door,and it's not just b/c it's loud either.
    If the sounds were magnified thru the air duct,I don't think there would be any problem hearing paint cans being moved across the floor.

    If I were an IDI enthusiast (which I am not because the Ramseys wouldn't be covering up for an intruder who killed their daughter), I would say the intruder used an aluminum ladder to access JonBenet's concrete balcony and enter her bedroom through the unlocked door from the balcony. The scraping noise heard by Luther Stanton would have been the intruder taking down the aluminum ladder and having it scrape against JonBenet's concrete balcony.
    They could come up with that as an explanation,sure, but the Stantons would have also likely heard clanging sounds of a ladder being folded up,which they didn't report.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  10. #10
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    No Footprints On Balcony, ST Book

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    JMO8778,

    I don't think that moving full paint cans out of the way would make enough noise to be heard through the furnace air duct to the outside and to the Stanton's house down the street. Cans of paint, unless empty, would make more of a thud sound. But at least we're beginning to think out of the box, which is sorely needed in this case.

    If I were an IDI enthusiast (which I am not because the Ramseys wouldn't be covering up for an intruder who killed their daughter), I would say the intruder used an aluminum ladder to access JonBenet's concrete balcony and enter her bedroom through the unlocked door from the balcony. The scraping noise heard by Luther Stanton would have been the intruder taking down the aluminum ladder and having it scrape against JonBenet's concrete balcony.

    BlueCrab
    ST said early in his book there were no footprints in the frost of the covered balcony. Nobody came in that way. (About pg 53, if my memory is correct, paperback. I very well may be wrong about the page number.)

    I agree the paint cans probably wouldn't make that much noise, wish they'd tell us more exactly what Stanton thought could have been making the sound. It's probably in BPD's records.

    Seems the killer either knew already before police testing that noise in the basement couldn't be heard upstairs, or for some reason didn't care.

    Maybe he was high on something? Or had some kind of immunity and knew the R's couldn't do anything about him? In the news right now, which I haven't read yet in detail, there's something about years of abuse of gov't programs, like Patriot Act. We had several before that, Echelon, Carnivore, and I heard something on TV about an FBI confession. Strange things were happening and culprits had immunity even before Nixon and company?

    I'm thinking of the assasinations with impunity of the Kennedy brothers, Dr. King, etc. Allegedly there was a tape of him with a woman, but it could obviously have been his wife. Do you get the feeling such a malicious hater is still out there? JR wasn't in national politics, of course, but the nervy perp picked on that family because irritated by beauty queens and also was just running out of devilish things to do, and too used-to never getting caught?

    I read in one of the books about Dallas that witnesses were all told they would get labelled prostitutes or, for the men, drunks. But within a decade most of them had died even though they kept quiet.

    On MSNBC last night they were discussing deaths in Russia, of colleagues who'd been critical of the gov't there. Allergic to poison, and like that.
    Maybe someone else saw more of it than I did.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle1

    I agree the paint cans probably wouldn't make that much noise, wish they'd tell us more exactly what Stanton thought could have been making the sound. It's probably in BPD's records.
    I don't know for sure that it couldn't have,but the R's expect us to believe that the scraping sound could be the grate,which was even further away.

    Seems the killer either knew already before police testing that noise in the basement couldn't be heard upstairs, or for some reason didn't care.
    I think the perp wasn't worried b/c in was in his/her own home.

    Maybe he was high on something? Or had some kind of immunity and knew the R's couldn't do anything about him?
    high,no,arrogant..yes.and the immunity was money.


    Do you get the feeling such a malicious hater is still out there?
    not unless you count JR.
    but these are JMO's,I'm not making fun of your theories,of course you're entitled to those.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  12. #12
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    Robert Ressler is a terrific profiler. He's spoken on the Ramsey case several times. I have alot of respect for him.

    As for the "sounds" heard in the night - why does everyone assume that any sounds heard during the night in that neighborhood HAD to have come from the Ramsey home and be related to the death of JonBenet?
    It may very well be ("if" there were indeed sounds as Stanton described) that those sounds came from some innocuous source of a another neighbors home.
    So while it's a piece of information, when you look at the TOTALITY of the evidence in this case, ANY "intruder" theory simply makes no sense.
    So - using logic, this sound that Stanton heard most likely came from some source other than the Ramsey home.

    To the poster who said that it's never ever been "proven" that the Ramseys were involved in the death of their daughter/sister - that is because the case has never gone to trial.
    Just because no one has been arrested does NOT mean that the authorities do not KNOW who was involved.
    I believe that they do.
    But you cannot arrest someone without being able to prove that "this one did this and that one did that" during the course of the crime.
    The crime scene was a mess - both due to "staging within staging" as the FBI stated; and the slop job the BPD did in preserving the scene that day.

    Add to that a whimpy DA who is afraid of the big, powerful attorneys the Ramseys could and did afford to protect them - and this case was doomed.

    Bottom Line Evidence/Facts:

    *Little 6 yr old girl is beaten and molested on Christmas night in her home.

    *Parents call the police early the next morning and claim she was kidnapped. The LEAST likely night of the entire year - Christmas. A night when nearly all families KNOW where their loved ones are.

    *Parents produce a "ransom note" that is three pages long. This "note" claims there are more than one kidnapper involved yet vascilates between using the singular "I" and the plural "we" in the note when referring to them/him/her.

    *Note claims they have their daughter and will kill her if they do not give them money.

    *Ransom demand is meager and an odd amount compared to Ramseys wealth.

    *When police arrive at the Ramsey home, Patsy Ramsey is not only in full make-up and her hair done - but is wearing the SAME outfit she had on the night before.

    *Police note in their reports that the Ramsey's acted oddly that morning and noted that they behaved as if a "death" had occurred rather than a kidnapping.

    *Parents lied about their son Burke being awake during those first hours that morning. NO NEED for this lie whatsoever unless he too was involved an/or had knowledge that would incriminate the family.

    *Even though the note warned the Ramsey's NOT to call police or anyone - they not only call police - but friends and pastor to come over "right away"!

    *Even though the note warned that the Ramseys every move was being watched and "monitored" - they felt absolutely NO FEAR in sending off their 9-almost 10 year old son Burke across town to "friends" home. Leaving HIM vulnerable to being kidnapped as well. Especially in light of the fact that the Ramseys defied the notes instructions (by callling police and friends) which would be obvious to the "kidnappers" who were "monitoring and watching" them.

    "Ramseys lawyered up from day one - and immediately adopted the perspective that the police were the enemy - NOT the killer/s of their daughter. In fact - they told the nation the day after they buried her that they "weren't angry" but just needed to "move on."

    *20 minutes after "finding" his daughter DEAD in his basement, her father phones his pilot and asks him to ready the planes to whisk his family away that night out of the state - leaving his tiny daughter's body all alone. Unbelievable.

    *Ramseys could not speak to the police (never mind badger them with questions on the progress in the case as innocent parents of murdered children do) - yet they were able to go on national television (CNN) and submit themselves to an interview for the world. This clearly defined the motivation utmost in their minds - then - and forever more - to try and rectify their "good name." NOT - to find this killer.

    *Even after the parents "discovered" that their daughter never was in fact kidnapped, no ransom money was ever sought, etc. - they STILL defended that ransom note! Why? Because they HOPED to manipulate people/authorities into still buying it. Which was the whole purpose of the note to begin with. Deflect attention away from what REALLY happened to their daughter.

    There is of course much, much more. But it isn't even necessary to keep going.
    This post is my opinion.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by K777angel
    *Police note in their reports that the Ramsey's acted oddly that morning and noted that they behaved as if a "death" had occurred rather than a kidnapping.
    I seem to recall from the MSNBC Investigates program on the Susan Smith case that when David Smith went over to the house where Susan went to after letting her car with her kids go into the lake he found her lying on the floor sobbing hysterically.
    *Even though the note warned that the Ramseys every move was being watched and "monitored" - they felt absolutely NO FEAR in sending off their 9-almost 10 year old son Burke across town to "friends" home. Leaving HIM vulnerable to being kidnapped as well. Especially in light of the fact that the Ramseys defied the notes instructions (by callling police and friends) which would be obvious to the "kidnappers" who were "monitoring and watching" them.
    And Burke never said anything like "Please find my sister and bring her back safe and sound" to any of the police officers there that morning, did he?


    -Tea

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    Ressler maybe just hadn't thought about all of it enough, or was going along with BPD. Parents sometimes kill, but absolutely nobody, in all this time, trying desperately, has been able to prove the bereaved Ramseys did this. It just can't be done , with what's known so far, let's face it.
    Not can't, won't.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by K777angel

    "Ramseys lawyered up from day one - and immediately adopted the perspective that the police were the enemy - NOT the killer/s of their daughter. In fact - they told the nation the day after they buried her that they "weren't angry" but just needed to "move on."
    ly defined the motivation utmost in their minds - then - and forever more - to try and rectify their "good name." NOT - to find this killer.
    nothing more than a cheap attempt to try and get investigators to lay off them.and apparently they told others ahead of time,whom they figured might be asked,to say the same thing.

    as far as JR's idea of anxiously going on CNN so soon,I think it was a bad mistake for them;you can practically stamp the word GUILTY on her forehead here:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=GfVBVz8vulM
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

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