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  1. #1
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    Ramsey reaction to JonBenet's death

    The great thing about these forums is that something can puzzle you for years and then you read one post and suddenly things make sense. That has happened twice for me recently.

    For years, the biggest puzzle for me has been how the Ramsey's and their extended family have been a cohesive fortress regarding JonBenet's death. You would think a stray cousin or in-law would rock the boat. But nothing even close has happened. Add to this the way this family seemed to be putting this behind them when they walked away from the house that afternoon while JonBenet was still inside. Add to this their cavalier, flippant, and detached attitude over the years regarding JonBenet's death. I can't come up with the adjectives to describe my puzzlement over this.

    Then a poster on Forums For Justice (koldkase), commented about John's interview on Larry King last year, when John was asked what JonBenet would be like if she were alive today and John's answer was..."she was a handful".

    I remember that interview and remember waiting for the "but" to follow that comment, but it never came. Could John have spilled the beans with that little comment?

    From their perspective, is this what they are thinking?

    JonBenet not only died that night, but she also ruined their lives. Yes, JonBenet was a victim, but so were they. They are the real heroes in this, they have bravely carried on.


    Then Toltec has been floating some ideas recently that have me thinking along this line.

    We seem to have some overly complex issues with clothes that night. Could it be Patsy didn't dress JonBenet for bed like she usually did but instead dressed JB for the next day's plane trip?

    Perhaps JB never made it to bed but instead when she was being dressed in her trip clothes, she became a handful?

    Perhaps JB was changed into those trip clothes and then wet/soiled the bed and this is when JB became a handful?

    Perhaps Patsy got JB up so she wouldn't wet/soil those clothes and JB became a handful then or Patsy realized JB needed a sponge bath or a complete bath and this is when JB became a handful?


    Did the family react the way they did because they put the majority of the blame on JonBenet? The root cause of this tragedy in their eyes was her behavior and so the family is just coping the best way they can.

    We know a loud vacuum cleaner could grate on John's nerves, imagine what a little ball of energy, with no on/off switch, could do to him. He may have been very understanding about what happened.

    So to sum this up, what happened was unfortunate, but if she hadn't been a handful, she would still be alive today.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert18 View Post
    The great thing about these forums is that something can puzzle you for years and then you read one post and suddenly things make sense. That has happened twice for me recently.

    For years, the biggest puzzle for me has been how the Ramsey's and their extended family have been a cohesive fortress regarding JonBenet's death. You would think a stray cousin or in-law would rock the boat. But nothing even close has happened. Add to this the way this family seemed to be putting this behind them when they walked away from the house that afternoon while JonBenet was still inside. Add to this their cavalier, flippant, and detached attitude over the years regarding JonBenet's death. I can't come up with the adjectives to describe my puzzlement over this.

    Then a poster on Forums For Justice (koldkase), commented about John's interview on Larry King last year, when John was asked what JonBenet would be like if she were alive today and John's answer was..."she was a handful".

    I remember that interview and remember waiting for the "but" to follow that comment, but it never came. Could John have spilled the beans with that little comment?

    From their perspective, is this what they are thinking?

    JonBenet not only died that night, but she also ruined their lives. Yes, JonBenet was a victim, but so were they. They are the real heroes in this, they have bravely carried on.


    Then Toltec has been floating some ideas recently that have me thinking along this line.

    We seem to have some overly complex issues with clothes that night. Could it be Patsy didn't dress JonBenet for bed like she usually did but instead dressed JB for the next day's plane trip?

    Perhaps JB never made it to bed but instead when she was being dressed in her trip clothes, she became a handful?

    Perhaps JB was changed into those trip clothes and then wet/soiled the bed and this is when JB became a handful?

    Perhaps Patsy got JB up so she wouldn't wet/soil those clothes and JB became a handful then or Patsy realized JB needed a sponge bath or a complete bath and this is when JB became a handful?


    Did the family react the way they did because they put the majority of the blame on JonBenet? The root cause of this tragedy in their eyes was her behavior and so the family is just coping the best way they can.

    We know a loud vacuum cleaner could grate on John's nerves, imagine what a little ball of energy, with no on/off switch, could do to him. He may have been very understanding about what happened.

    So to sum this up, what happened was unfortunate, but if she hadn't been a handful, she would still be alive today.
    I totally agree. And geez....what a way to describe your dead daughter. He had also described her as a "spark plug". A spark plug and a handful. You are right, there should have been a BUT after, "she was a handful"....something like, oh maybe...I don't know...."She was a handful, but we loved her with all of our hearts, she was our little girl, and you have no idea how greatly she will be missed. There is a void in our lives now that can never be filled. The person that killed her is still out there, and we will not STOP until he is caught!!! He took away our baby, and we will never, ever forgive him. She was our heart and our soul....our precious baby girl". BUT NO....John says..."she was a handful"...and leaves it at that. Maybe they should have inscribed "JonBenet Patricia Ramsey....she was our handful, and our sparkplug", on her tombstone. The more I think about those descriptions...the madder I get. (IMO)
    "This time we get it right."

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert18 View Post
    The great thing about these forums is that something can puzzle you for years and then you read one post and suddenly things make sense. That has happened twice for me recently.

    For years, the biggest puzzle for me has been how the Ramsey's and their extended family have been a cohesive fortress regarding JonBenet's death. You would think a stray cousin or in-law would rock the boat. But nothing even close has happened. Add to this the way this family seemed to be putting this behind them when they walked away from the house that afternoon while JonBenet was still inside. Add to this their cavalier, flippant, and detached attitude over the years regarding JonBenet's death. I can't come up with the adjectives to describe my puzzlement over this.

    Then a poster on Forums For Justice (koldkase), commented about John's interview on Larry King last year, when John was asked what JonBenet would be like if she were alive today and John's answer was..."she was a handful".

    I remember that interview and remember waiting for the "but" to follow that comment, but it never came. Could John have spilled the beans with that little comment?

    From their perspective, is this what they are thinking?

    JonBenet not only died that night, but she also ruined their lives. Yes, JonBenet was a victim, but so were they. They are the real heroes in this, they have bravely carried on.


    Then Toltec has been floating some ideas recently that have me thinking along this line.

    We seem to have some overly complex issues with clothes that night. Could it be Patsy didn't dress JonBenet for bed like she usually did but instead dressed JB for the next day's plane trip?

    Perhaps JB never made it to bed but instead when she was being dressed in her trip clothes, she became a handful?

    Perhaps JB was changed into those trip clothes and then wet/soiled the bed and this is when JB became a handful?

    Perhaps Patsy got JB up so she wouldn't wet/soil those clothes and JB became a handful then or Patsy realized JB needed a sponge bath or a complete bath and this is when JB became a handful?


    Did the family react the way they did because they put the majority of the blame on JonBenet? The root cause of this tragedy in their eyes was her behavior and so the family is just coping the best way they can.

    We know a loud vacuum cleaner could grate on John's nerves, imagine what a little ball of energy, with no on/off switch, could do to him. He may have been very understanding about what happened.

    So to sum this up, what happened was unfortunate, but if she hadn't been a handful, she would still be alive today.
    You know Albert, your post really sums it up for me...that interview with JR on LKL, how could anyone doubt their involvement after the "handful" comment?

    JR was not talking about his dear daughter murdered by an intruder, rather he was subconciously letting it slip that there was a good reason for Patsy's rage attack on JonBenet. She was a handful alright. I also believe that JR staged the crime scene along with Patsy and went along for the "intruder" ride for the next decade because he felt guilty for Patsy having to deal with so much on her own. She dealt with cancer, kids, and the ensuing exhaustion and chaos that went with it....all while John remained somewhat distant through it all. He was so busy building the business and building their fortune.

    If he and Patsy were innocent, he would have added to the "handful" comment with some yearning and praise for her. I so agree Albert, his lack of description, his lack of comment on JB speaks volumes to me. Good post!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veronica10 View Post
    You know Albert, your post really sums it up for me...that interview with JR on LKL, how could anyone doubt their involvement after the "handful" comment?

    JR was not talking about his dear daughter murdered by an intruder, rather he was subconciously letting it slip that there was a good reason for Patsy's rage attack on JonBenet. She was a handful alright. I also believe that JR staged the crime scene along with Patsy and went along for the "intruder" ride for the next decade because he felt guilty for Patsy having to deal with so much on her own. She dealt with cancer, kids, and the ensuing exhaustion and chaos that went with it....all while John remained somewhat distant through it all. He was so busy building the business and building their fortune.

    If he and Patsy were innocent, he would have added to the "handful" comment with some yearning and praise for her. I so agree Albert, his lack of description, his lack of comment on JB speaks volumes to me. Good post!
    I was thinking about the statement, and I thought well he is saying it in a loving way as people will say that about their children. But when I think of the brutality of her death, I am not so sure that I would say she was a handful. I would say something much more loving just because I would miss her so much.

  5. #5
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    I'm not a diehard PDI, believing the crime to be sexually motivated, but I do think there was real potential for combustion with the scheduling of this holiday...the party going into the evening, driving around dropping off presents until 10 pm, having to pack and leave at the crack of dawn for a vacation. I look at my own kids at age 6, and they would have been bouncing off the walls after the party..They would not have been asleep in the car. Toddlers sleep in the car...5-6 year olds close their eyes so they can be carried in the house...I believe Burke that she walked in....It had been so many hours since dinner that the kids likely needed a late night snack. I just don't believe an intruder fed her pineapple. I don't believe anyone went to sleep that night.

  6. #6
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    The way the extended family closed ranks in a defensive position tells me they weren't working off the intruder theory. The accident explanation must have percolated out to them or at the very least, "don't ask, don't tell" instructions were issued.

    So this is what I don't understand. How do family members (I'm talking outside of John, Patsy, Melinda, and John Andrew) reconcile an accident explanation or a "something happened, don't ask about it" explanation with these words from the autopsy; "Cause of death of this six year old female is asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma."?

    How could not one relative come to the defense of JonBenet?

  7. #7
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    How could not one relative come to the defense of JonBenet?

    Because they knew they'd be thrown under the bus, become a suspect, never be spoken to again, alienated, treated like a criminal, etc.

    And nobody could prove anything beyond a suspicion. I'm think within their own respective families, John and Patsy were celebrities of a sort. They were very rich and had raised the bar for the Paughs and the Ramseys.

    And who knows, maybe someone will talk at some point. Patsy hasn't even been gone for a year.

    Nobody in JonBenet's family stood up to fight for her...too sad for words.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veronica10 View Post
    How could not one relative come to the defense of JonBenet?

    Because they knew they'd be thrown under the bus, become a suspect, never be spoken to again, alienated, treated like a criminal, etc.

    And nobody could prove anything beyond a suspicion. I'm think within their own respective families, John and Patsy were celebrities of a sort. They were very rich and had raised the bar for the Paughs and the Ramseys.

    And who knows, maybe someone will talk at some point. Patsy hasn't even been gone for a year.

    Nobody in JonBenet's family stood up to fight for her...too sad for words.
    They named every single one of their friends as suspects except the Stines I believe and then went on LKL and said the thought of one of our friends being involved is just too much for us to conceive of. Meanwhile, they have named them as suspects. What about Jay of Pasta Jay's. They stayed at his home and he brought them dinner every night. Meanwhile, they are naming him.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solace View Post
    I was thinking about the statement, and I thought well he is saying it in a loving way as people will say that about their children....
    I am no Ramsey defender, but I don't make much of the use of the word "handful" in this context. The word can be a synonym for "sparkplug" and the "but" is implied. He was just saying - admiringly - that JBR had a lot of spirit and personality.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I am no Ramsey defender, but I don't make much of the use of the word "handful" in this context. The word can be a synonym for "sparkplug" and the "but" is implied. He was just saying - admiringly - that JBR had a lot of spirit and personality.
    It is true. People use the word "handful" in a loving way and in a bragging way. I have seen the same thing in this case when Patsy refers to loving "that child". I understand where you are coming from because this case is so horrific and some of us truly believe they did it so I think things come under scrutiny that normally would not. I probably would not say handful - mainly because I would not be able to talk if that happened to my child and time would not do a thing for me. But I don't see this phrase as something that spells guilt.

    The Ransom note spells guilt. The fact that Patsy said she saw the red heart on JB's hand spells guilt.


  11. #11
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    Unless my memory doesn't serve me well, I thought John seemed uncomfortable with the question. It was like he didn't expect the question. The question seemed to stump him.

    We can't defeat death but we can have our small victories. When you are asked to reminisce about somebody who has died it is your chance at a small victory.

    I shouldn't have to imply or assume anything from John's comments. John was her father, not me. I stopped setting aside conventional wisdom to excuse these people a long time ago.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert18 View Post
    Unless my memory doesn't serve me well, I thought John seemed uncomfortable with the question. It was like he didn't expect the question. The question seemed to stump him.

    We can't defeat death but we can have our small victories. When you are asked to reminisce about somebody who has died it is your chance at a small victory.

    I shouldn't have to imply or assume anything from John's comments. John was her father, not me. I stopped setting aside conventional wisdom to excuse these people a long time ago.
    He did take his time in answering and smiled his proverbial smile and then said she would have been a handful. I think he lies about everything so you are probably right. He is uncomfortable with it.

  13. #13
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    Another "Ramsey reaction" that I thought was way off was when the John Karr guy was being brought to the U.S. and hadn't been cleared yet. John Ramsey was being interviewed and said, with his smile, that he sort of felt sorry for the guy. WTF?! Anybody else find that just odd?

    If Karr killed his daughter, he should be overcome with anger or something!. If Karr didn't murder his daughter, he should be repulsed and angry at what Karr had been saying about his dead daughter!

    But no, (smile) he felt kinda sorry for the guy.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by laini View Post
    Another "Ramsey reaction" that I thought was way off was when the John Karr guy was being brought to the U.S. and hadn't been cleared yet. John Ramsey was being interviewed and said, with his smile, that he sort of felt sorry for the guy. WTF?! Anybody else find that just odd?

    If Karr killed his daughter, he should be overcome with anger or something!. If Karr didn't murder his daughter, he should be repulsed and angry at what Karr had been saying about his dead daughter!

    But no, (smile) he felt kinda sorry for the guy.
    Yeah, he felt sorry for Karr, because he KNEW that Karr wasn't guilty...and had admitted to something that he didn't do, and was being torn apart by the public. IMO...he KNEW that Karr wasn't guilty from the start....and how did John know this? Because IMO he knew and still knows who the killer is. IMO IMO
    "This time we get it right."

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solace View Post
    He did take his time in answering and smiled his proverbial smile and then said she would have been a handful. I think he lies about everything so you are probably right. He is uncomfortable with it.
    I think that he was caught off guard, and didn't know what to say...AND HENCE...the handful comment. I know that if MY child was murdered, I could think of ALOT more ways to describe her, than "she was a handful". I wish that I could knock that smile off of his face. IMO
    "This time we get it right."

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