04-17-2007, 04:00 PM #1
Throwing these out for discussion, if need be. I don't know if these points have been discussed before or not. There will be more on the way if'n you all want.
I find this odd. I just can't imagine that PR would not have just run into the Fernie's and dropped off the gift. After all, JBR was sleeping and they could have told Burke that they were NOT going in.
1 LOU SMIT: You stayed in the car at the Walkers?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, the Walkers, yeah. I think we
3 all three stayed in the car.
4 LOU SMIT: And then you go to the Stines?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
6 LOU SMIT: How far a drive is the Stines?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Two minutes, three minutes.
8 Pulled up out the front of their house. Patsy
9 certainly went in, I don't think I did. I don't
10 remember if Burke did or not. I don't think
11 JonBenet did. But I don't remember for sure.
12 It wouldn't have been unusual for Burke to go in
13 because that was his buddy, Doug.
14 LOU SMIT: Did you have a gift for Doug?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know. I know Patsy
16 probably, but I don't recall. And then we debated,
17 we had a gift for the Fernies and we debated
18 whether we should go over there. But that's
19 probably 15 minutes away and we wanted to get home
20 and to bed. And we didn't know what time we would
21 get back. So we left the Stines and drove home.
22 LOU SMIT: So your concern then was mainly you
23 didn't want to spend that extra time (INAUDIBLE).
25 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it was 15 minutes over
1 there and both the kids might want to go in and it
2 would have been half an hour, 45 minutes before we
3 went home. And we had to get up early next
4 morning. They were tired. They had been up all
5 day. So we said, well, we'd do that when we got
Not duct tape? I always thought it was...
1 wide black tape, which I immediately took off. Her
2 lips were blue.
3 LOU SMIT: Where were you standing when
5 did that, John?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: I was, she was like right
7 there and I was right here.
8 LOU SMIT: So you hadn't gone into the wine
9 cellar, you were still on the north side of her at
10 that point?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. Um hmm.
12 LOU SMIT: And the duct tape, do you remember
13 if it was adhered all the way to her mouth?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. It wasn't really duct
15 tape, it was -- well I'm sure you've seen it. But
16 it was like black. t wasn't electrical tape. It
17 was kind of white, black, unusual tape, I thought.
And...what is this, or what could it be (typo?)
1 arms; they were tied up behind her head.
2 LOU SMIT: Were they tied tight?
3 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, very tight.
4 LOU SMIT: They were very tight?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: I noticed a spot in her coat,
6 below the surface.
04-17-2007, 04:06 PM #2
Ha ha! Gotta love Kane for this one!
1 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember specifically.
2 I mean, I remember by that time it was just kind
3 of, people were all over. I remember Father Rol
4 sitting on the couch praying in the living room. I
5 don't have any specific --
6 MIKE KANE: And where were you most of the
8 JOHN RAMSEY: Me?
9 MIKE KANE: Yeah, you.
04-17-2007, 04:24 PM #3Former Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2003
- Detroit 'Burb
Welcome, Rocket, If You're New
I never heard this before about a spot on JonBenet's coat, the one she wore to the Whites', probably. Do you remember if JR ever said what kind of a spot it was, or anything else about it? This was on the inside of the coat?
When did he say he noticed it, in the car waiting for Patsy to deliver gifts or later at home when taking off her coat? Would it have had to be pretty big for a man to notice it?
04-17-2007, 04:34 PM #4
Hi, Eagle. No, not new. Been scoping out this site for years. I read daily, post very very seldom.
Re the spot on the "coat". I'm not sure if he really said "coat" or if that's a typo. He said it when he was being interviewed about untying her hands when he found her...that's why I'm questioning it being a typo.
We must remember, also, that we don't know all the facts...all the evidence. I doubt very much that JBR was found in the wc with her coat on, but I suppose it is possible.
04-17-2007, 04:38 PM #5
It's a misprint. It's not even in the Police Files book and in comparing the two, I'd say there was cross-talk at that point.
If John Ramsey did say something like "There was a spot on her coat, just below the surface", I'd suggest that he actually said "..a spot on her THROAT, just below the surface" because the throat bruise was kind of transparent looking on the surface"This is only my opinion
Let the focus be on Madeleine
Together we can make a difference
Alert Viewer in Scotland
Member of Websleuths since April 2000
04-17-2007, 04:42 PM #6
TY for clearing that up, Jayelles!
04-17-2007, 11:29 PM #7"This time we get it right."
04-17-2007, 11:46 PM #8"This time we get it right."
04-18-2007, 12:13 AM #9
04-18-2007, 09:59 AM #10Former Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2003
- Detroit 'Burb
Probably on Her Throat
Since they were talking about the crime scene, a spot, and her coat was still in the car,
probably Jayelles is right that he said throat, not coat. And she carried some of the Fernies' leftover presents into the house.
Sure glad we cleared up all that.
04-18-2007, 03:28 PM #11
7 PATSY RAMSEY: She would not have eaten after
8 that, to my knowledge. So, I mean, we went from the
9 White's to falling asleep in the car, the Walkers,
10 (inaudible). She was asleep. We put her to bed.
11 TRIP DEMUTH: Before you went to the White's
12 you were the one supervising her that day?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. I don't recall her
14 eating pineapple that day.
According to Patsy, JB fell asleep after they left the White's Christmas Party, and was sleeping the whole time. John says that he doesn't think that JB went into the Stine's house to drop off presents, but doesn't remember for sure. Patsy doesn't mention the stines, but DOES mention that JB went from the White's Party, to FALLING ASLEEP IN THE CAR. Which means that she was asleep, according to Patsy, while all of those stops to drop presents off were being made. But, John doesn't remember if JB went into the Stine's house, or if she stayed in the car. And John says that they had a gift for the Fernie's, but it was 15 min. away, and that they needed to get home, because it was late...and they had to get up the next morning....and they were afraid that BOTH KIDS MIGHT WANT TO GO IN. They really DO need to get their stories straight. JB was AWAKE, I believe...the whole time..and even when they arrived home."This time we get it right."
04-19-2007, 10:03 AM #12Registered User
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
04-19-2007, 11:12 AM #13
Not to mention Burke said she helped carry gifts into the Walkers and and walked into the house herself when they got home, and JR's original statement to police was that he read the kids a book when they got home - only to change it later saying he'd been misunderstood (by three different officers at different times) and he'd meant he read a book.
JonBenet was awake when they got home that night...why all the lies, if an intruder was the killer?
04-19-2007, 11:39 AM #14Registered User
- Join Date
- Aug 2003
Hey, what about the statements of the mighty, mighty Judge Carnes? According to Ramsey supporters, the Carnes opinion was given the weight of truth by DA Lacy herself, and so we are to take all that Carnes said as gospel. And yet, Carnes said, and I quote, "The family planned to rise early the following morning because they were to fly to Charlevoix, Michigan for a family vacation. JonBenet and her brother Burke fell asleep in the car. Defendants put the children to bed when they returned home and then went to bed soon there after."
So, what of that, eh? If Carnes is to be taken as gospel, then the Ramseys have always lied about Burke staying awake to put together a plastic parking garage. (I have my suspicions about that story anyway: given a brand-new Nintendo 64 to play with, the hottest game system of that season that people were engaging in fistfights to get, versus a plastic toy, how could a nine-year-old boy prefer the plastic child's toy to the Nintendo? And if there was any doubt about which would have his interest more, look at which of those items he took with him to the White house the next morning.)"That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." -- Anne Elk
04-19-2007, 11:54 AM #15
Excellent point - I didn't realize it was said both kids were asleep by Carnes.
I don't believe Burke was that interested in putting together a model like JR said, either. I'd definitely expect him to want the Nintendo, especially since JR said they scored bigtime just getting one for him that Christmas. I think they went with the model because it's such a storybook perfect Christian family activity - father and son side by side working on a model, bonding and talking before bed. Sounds as craptacular as all the other "wholesome" activities the Rs participated in - such as turning a six year old girl into a miniature Vegas showgirl or Marilyn Monroe-lookalike.