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Thread: IN - Burger Chef murders in Speedway, 1978

  1. #26
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    Our featured Cold Case from 4/24/11 to 4/30/11

    May this generate the clue to solve the case!

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  3. #27
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    I had never heard of this case but it is one that grips the heart that is for sure.

    We have had murders in our area from time to time over the years that happened at a fast food place and when the suspect or suspects were caught most all of the time the perps were past employees who would know the layout and know when the trash is usually taken out. Those murders too happened later in the night like these did.

    This has to be so terrible for the families to endure for decade after decade Not only have they lost so much ........they have never even seen the perp(s) brought to justice.

    I hope one day someone snitches. Someone knows something. It has happened before. I saw a case on A&E where a woman finally told who a murderer was and she had held that secret for 26 years.

    Since the victims were killed by different methods I think there was more than one killer. A group of maybe 3.

    IMO
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

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  5. #28
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    I remember this case.
    Speedway Indiana is a small town completely surrounded by the city of Indianapolis. (BTW- the Indianapolis Motor Speedway - home of the 500 - is actually in Speedway, NOT Indianapolis)
    The Indy metro police solved a VERY cold case which happened just a few blocks from the Burger Chef murders. Marion County has a pretty good cold case squad - here's praying they solve this ghastly crime someday soon.

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  7. #29
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    Since authorities speculate that several individuals may have been involved in this horrible act, you'd think after all of these years that one of them may have talked about it. I'm referring to a person admitting his involvement to a fellow inmate or someone having too much to drink and bragging in a bar, etc.

    A good clue is that the victim's bodies were left some 40 minutes away from the Burger Chef location; as though one or more of the killers knew that area as opposed to somewhere closer to the restaurant.

    Another is the theory that one of more of the employees recognized the individuals which led to the incident turning to kidnapping and murder rather than just robbery. Could any of the family members of the victims been able to indicate those people the deceased may have known who may have had previous trouble with the law, etc.?

  8. #30
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    This is a back-to-back reply here, but in reading the story of the incident, I've been wondering about the assistant manager's car being found away from the restaurant. The initial report indicated it was a block and one-half from the police station. How far was that from the restaurant? Was this vehicle initially taken and then ran out of gas, broke down or otherwise have become undriveable? Was it ever checked to determine if it was driveable or not? Was the vehicle checked for finger prints, blood or similar evidence? Who had driven it to that location - the assistant manager or one of the abductors? It's interesting to read that the driver's side door of the car was locked, but the passenger side was unlocked. Could the assistant manager have used it to try and escape and alert the police only to have been overtaken, stopped and taken by the killers? Could those responsible have used that vehilce to transport the victims and then driven it back to town and just abandoned it there? A lot of questions. What are the answers?

  9. #31
    I'm new to this Website and I would like to thank all members for following this thread and posting updates in order to see that these victims are not forgotten. This was truly a horrific crime and all persons involved should/could be brought to justice. I say "could" because I believe as "annie1958" stated that they already know who the perpetrators are but are afraid they don't have enough evidence. Yes, the crime scene was contaminated or should I say decontaminated ,so what! Let a jury decide if there's enough evidence. I know they have some evidence, including the gun used in this crime and the name of the persons who had possession of it during the time of this crime ( that has never been made public.) The police stated that they tried to get them to sign a confession but they refused. Well, that was 30 years ago. How about trying to get a confession from one of them now, now that he's been setting in jail on unrelated charges for 30 years and will probably never see outside his jail cell again. He might be willing to deal. How about a lifetime supply of cigarettes!
    Last edited by keystothekiller; 10-06-2011 at 07:08 PM. Reason: spelling

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  11. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Cincinnati Kid View Post
    This is a back-to-back reply here, but in reading the story of the incident, I've been wondering about the assistant manager's car being found away from the restaurant. The initial report indicated it was a block and one-half from the police station. How far was that from the restaurant? Was this vehicle initially taken and then ran out of gas, broke down or otherwise have become undriveable? Was it ever checked to determine if it was driveable or not? Was the vehicle checked for finger prints, blood or similar evidence? Who had driven it to that location - the assistant manager or one of the abductors? It's interesting to read that the driver's side door of the car was locked, but the passenger side was unlocked. Could the assistant manager have used it to try and escape and alert the police only to have been overtaken, stopped and taken by the killers? Could those responsible have used that vehilce to transport the victims and then driven it back to town and just abandoned it there? A lot of questions. What are the answers?
    I Google mapped the location of the restaurant at 5725 N. Crawfordsville Rd. and 5500 blk. of W. 15th street the location that Jayne' 1974 Chevrolet Vega was found. According to the satellite view the perpetrators drove down Crawfordsville rd. and took their first right, then drove two blocks down and took another right. From the satellite view it seems to be a ballpark there now. Not sure if that was there 30 years ago. I Also think It may have been a dead end rd. At that hour of night it would have seemed vacant and secluded. It was obvious to me that the perpetrators were familiar with the area. My theory is this, the group of men who the gun traced back to (see my post) were at that time, also stealing vehicles from Ky. and bringing them back to Indiana to change VIN#. Jaynes car was fairly new. Why not take the car too since they got less than $600 from the robbery. One of them probably drove the car to this location( with the van following) in hopes that they would come back later and change the VIN #. Unfortunately for them the police located the vehicle first. In hindsight, the police should have staked out the vehicle to see if one of the perpetrators would return to claim it!

  12. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Cincinnati Kid View Post
    Since authorities speculate that several individuals may have been involved in this horrible act, you'd think after all of these years that one of them may have talked about it. I'm referring to a person admitting his involvement to a fellow inmate or someone having too much to drink and bragging in a bar, etc.

    A good clue is that the victim's bodies were left some 40 minutes away from the Burger Chef location; as though one or more of the killers knew that area as opposed to somewhere closer to the restaurant.

    Another is the theory that one of more of the employees recognized the individuals which led to the incident turning to kidnapping and murder rather than just robbery. Could any of the family members of the victims been able to indicate those people the deceased may have known who may have had previous trouble with the law, etc.?
    A 16 year old witness reported seeing two men in a car outside the Burger Chef the night of the robbery. One of the men covered his face with a bandana and ask the boy to leave the area. It is logical then that the robbers came in wearing bandanas, ski mask etc... It was November. I believe at some point an altercation did take place causing one of the perpetrators to lose his mask/bandana revealing his face. Autopsy records show that Mark was beaten earlier in the evening. This may be the reason why the crime escalated so violently. Could this also be the reason that a man was later seen peering thought the restaurant windows, was a bandana or ski mask left behind in the scuffle. Unfortunately, the day shift cleaned the restaurant before police realized it was a crime scene. Employees probably thought a customer lost his hat/bandana and threw it in with the lost and found!

  13. #34
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    The FBI needs to thoughly question past Detective Jim Cramer of the Indiana State Police about his family's involvement in this case. As it appears now, There were three men involved initially in this crime. I say initially, One of the men was driving a 73-75 Green Van with bubble windows and was seen arguing in the parking lot,with another person , The bearded man, I believe graduated or went to Avon high school with Jane Friedt. The third man is possibly a close relative to Det. Cramer and the gun used, came from this mans' father. I believe he was who moved Jaynes car. He may have worked at that Burger King and had tried to date Jane, the story is, she told him to take a hike. Police comprise the other two if there were not more. All are still alive. The bearded man is also a suspect in the I-65 murders/rapes at the Days inn, Merrillville and Remington Rape and attempted abduction at Columbus In, And the murder/ rape of a hotel clerk in Elizabethtown Ky.

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  15. #35
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    Gatesareopen, Have you thought of going to our local TV Stations WRTV or WishTV to do some story?

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    The first 11 years, I either called the State Police or went to the Post Road ISP every year asking if they wanted the information. I was told by people at Indy star and all the news stations that if they wouldnt talk to me, the info was probably no good. When I suspected ,in 1989 the Remington and merrillville rape /murders were committed by the bearded man, I called because at the time ,I had a suspect for them. 1 or 2 days prior to the 11th year anniversary of the BC killings. Det Jim Cramer, contacted me. I thought it was about at that point the remington /merrillville suspect. He refused to take any info I had on the Bearded suspect. He only wanted to know about Burger Chef. I drove around with him and he taped and asked mundane questions about what I saw that night at the Burger Chef. But , he refused to ask about the I-65 murders. About three days later, the man who drove the Green van started approaching me asking about ,Why was I talking about him, to the police."? At that time, in all those years I had only mentioned his name to Det .Jim cramer. He had infomation that only was on the tape Jim cramer had taped at the time in the police car. I know two of the men ,the other I just happen to run into , in Nov/89 The Ky state police was also offered this info when I found out the Elizabethtown murder was related, to this day there has been no calls or emails from them either. And, that is the basic facts of the story

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  18. #37
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    I was on high school in Indianapolis at the time and do remember this crime. Kind of assumed it was eventually solved, or maybe didn't expect it would necessarily be solved, so forgot about it.

    However, I did remember that this was one case that pointed out the danger for teens working alone at night. Thankfully, security cameras today are a deterrent.

  19. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatesareopen View Post
    The first 11 years, I either called the State Police or went to the Post Road ISP every year asking if they wanted the information. I was told by people at Indy star and all the news stations that if they wouldnt talk to me, the info was probably no good. When I suspected ,in 1989 the Remington and merrillville rape /murders were committed by the bearded man, I called because at the time ,I had a suspect for them. 1 or 2 days prior to the 11th year anniversary of the BC killings. Det Jim Cramer, contacted me. I thought it was about at that point the remington /merrillville suspect. He refused to take any info I had on the Bearded suspect. He only wanted to know about Burger Chef. I drove around with him and he taped and asked mundane questions about what I saw that night at the Burger Chef. But , he refused to ask about the I-65 murders. About three days later, the man who drove the Green van started approaching me asking about ,Why was I talking about him, to the police."? At that time, in all those years I had only mentioned his name to Det .Jim cramer. He had infomation that only was on the tape Jim cramer had taped at the time in the police car. I know two of the men ,the other I just happen to run into , in Nov/89 The Ky state police was also offered this info when I found out the Elizabethtown murder was related, to this day there has been no calls or emails from them either. And, that is the basic facts of the story
    Gatesareopen, It sounds like we need to compare notes. Please check your messages.

  20. #39

    New message

    Gatesareopen, I've sent you a new private message.

  21. #40
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    Where did you go?

    Quote Originally Posted by keystothekiller View Post
    Gatesareopen, I've sent you a new private message.
    I wish you would come back and share your notes with the rest of us. Thousands of people still care about these victims and want this crime solved.

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  23. #41
    I agree with you Cilene. Even though the police and the local news station did not want to listen to your story Gatesareopen, thousands of people still care about these victims and are eager to listen. Your information no matter how old or minute it may seem, will help to corroborate statements made by other citizens and could contain a missing piece of information that can help solve this crime!

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  25. #42
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    I agree with Keystothekiller and Cilene , I would like to hear more from Keystothekiller and gatesareopen on this case. Please dont hold back any information that could help this case go forward. These victims and there families deserve closeure.

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  27. #43
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    I know Jayne's sister and her family, she's a very nice woman. So sad that this case has never been solved. Bump for justice.

    I was also born in Speedway and my family was from there. My parents grew up in that area in the 70's and I remember years later my mother often talked about the BC murders and the Speedway bombings. The two most notorious crimes in Speedway's history both happened within 2 months of each other in the Fall 1978.

    My mother's friend's father was the man maimed in the Speedway bombings and he later committed suicide. My mother has always believed Brett Kimberlin, convicted in the bombings, was involved in the BC murders as well. Why she believes that, I'm not sure, but her and her friend apparently believe that Kimberlin was involved in the BC murders.

    That's their opinion, I'm not sure how that fits in with the theory of the beared man, fair haired man, and the others. I've seen several places online where essentially LE believes they know who is responsible but cannot convict at trial.

    Jayne's sister ... I've never spoken to her about all of this and never would bring it up, I've actually known her for many years and only recently learned of the connection. So I don't have any inside information there, but I really feel for her. I hope the scum who committed these acts are brought to justice, and one day we know they will have to answer to God.
    Last edited by Ven; 06-04-2012 at 05:13 AM.

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  29. #44
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    From this thread Gates seems to have a clear suspect in mind, he goes into a very detailed description of this person in the thread he started on the I-65 Motel killer.

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7482248#post7482248"]I65, Days Inn , Mary Gill, Jean Gilbert, Vicki Heath, 1989 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]



    Add:
    and link from AMW

    http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=76669
    Last edited by Ven; 06-04-2012 at 05:20 AM.

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  31. #45
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    Here is another online source:

    It claims the bearded man died of a heart attack, the man who tipped off police to the bearded man committed suicide, and the shotgun man and fair haired man are still alive and living in Indiana, according to this source.

    http://expandyourmind.hubpages.com/h...me-of-Indy-500

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  33. #46
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    OK one last post before I go to bed. This from another online poster:

    Anonymous:

    It is never to late for justice! Here is what I know about the Burger Chef Murders. A guy named Ford*****(last names not revealed)owed drug money to two brothers John & Daniel***** Because of this the brothers stole from Ford****** a green custom van and 38 revolver that was later used in the murders.The van was later torched. The 38 revolver was supposed to be thrown in the river but was instead sold to Jim *****. Jim ***** sold the gun to two brothers from Wanamaker named********The two brothers from wanamaker then used it to rob a bank and were caught. The bullistics traced the gun back to the Burger Chef Murders! The two brothers from Wanamaker were never convicted of the bank robbery because the police lost the gun in their custody! Losing the gun was either a cover-up or total embarrassment for the police department, either way the police never tried to convict John & daniel *****
    http://www.tchowe.com/MessageBoards/...b_start:int=20

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  35. #47
    I've heard a similar story through the grapevine, but some of the names and places were different. There are so many stories, leads, suspects and theories that as a layman I don't know who to believe. No wonder the police have never solved this one.

  36. #48
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    I stand by my statements and the people were convicted and in jail long before March of 1989. This man who I believe was involved was out and on the move.

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  38. #49
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    Can someone tell me-who is still alive in case?
    fair haired guy
    shotgun guy

  39. #50
    I dislike the use of the terms fair-haired man, shotgun man and bearded man. Those terms probably generated thousands of useless leads for the police to follow because it describes everyone's shady friend and neighbor. The police should now name their potential suspects by using the politically correct term "Persons of Interest."

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