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Thread: Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal

  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trino View Post
    Can we please quit bashing the parents. This has become a discussion on Maddie's parents and the perception that they are not responsible people instead of Maddie. This is terrible.

    I'm guessing that those who are bashing have not traveled extensively and are basing their statements on the American lifestyle. While you may not agree with what Maddie's parents did, they adhered to the standards of their culture, which should be respected.

    I'm glad that you said that. There isn't one parent on this forum who hasn't done something stupid at some time that could have put their children or child at risk. Luckily for most of us....nothing happened. I don't believe for a minute that these parents had a clue that something like this would happen. If they were dining close to their motel and they could check on the children...like they did...they must have felt comfortable with leaving them sleeping in the motel. Some of the posts that I have read now has the parents out every night dining and drinking and having a great time with other adults there. What it sounded like to me was a couple having a quiet dinner after their children went to sleep. So what if they had a drink with dinner.

    I can't imagine what this couple is going through while waiting to hear something about their daughter. I can't begin to put myself in their shoes. I know I would be carrying a load of guilt of which I'm sure that they are. If I could see them I would give them each a hug. They are victims...whoever kidnapped their daughter made them victims. They didn't set up the kidnapping and they sure didn't want something like that to happen. The important thing right now is finding their daughter. Instead of ragging on the parents we should use that energy to try and figure out what has happened to her.

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobbisangel View Post
    I'm glad that you said that. There isn't one parent on this forum who hasn't done something stupid at some time that could have put their children or child at risk. Luckily for most of us....nothing happened. I don't believe for a minute that these parents had a clue that something like this would happen. If they were dining close to their motel and they could check on the children...like they did...they must have felt comfortable with leaving them sleeping in the motel. Some of the posts that I have read now has the parents out every night dining and drinking and having a great time with other adults there. What it sounded like to me was a couple having a quiet dinner after their children went to sleep. So what if they had a drink with dinner.

    I can't imagine what this couple is going through while waiting to hear something about their daughter. I can't begin to put myself in their shoes. I know I would be carrying a load of guilt of which I'm sure that they are. If I could see them I would give them each a hug. They are victims...whoever kidnapped their daughter made them victims. They didn't set up the kidnapping and they sure didn't want something like that to happen. The important thing right now is finding their daughter. Instead of ragging on the parents we should use that energy to try and figure out what has happened to her.
    Okay the parents were checking in on their children, but it takes minutes for something to go wrong, one of the children could have woken up and gone looking for their parents and got lost or hurt, these children should have never been left alone for one minute.

    The parents will be feeling guilty, and we should put all our energy and prayers into finding out what happened to Madelaine but the truth of the fact is the children should have had some one there whilst they slept.
    Nobody is perfect and yes we have made mistakes bringing up our kids, as there is no manual on how to be the perfect parent, but commonsense says that children that young should not be left alone especially in unfamiliar surroundings.
    People are saying it is part of their culture to treat their children this way and thats what they do in their homeland, that is utter crap. Nobody leaves children that young alone, the parents are at fault, there is no buck passing here. Parents are responisble for their childrens safety, so Madelaines parents are responisble for their daughter being missing, if they had their dinner in their rooms Madelaine would still be with them today.

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobbisangel View Post
    I'm glad that you said that. There isn't one parent on this forum who hasn't done something stupid at some time that could have put their children or child at risk. Luckily for most of us....nothing happened. I don't believe for a minute that these parents had a clue that something like this would happen. If they were dining close to their motel and they could check on the children...like they did...they must have felt comfortable with leaving them sleeping in the motel. Some of the posts that I have read now has the parents out every night dining and drinking and having a great time with other adults there. What it sounded like to me was a couple having a quiet dinner after their children went to sleep. So what if they had a drink with dinner.

    I can't imagine what this couple is going through while waiting to hear something about their daughter. I can't begin to put myself in their shoes. I know I would be carrying a load of guilt of which I'm sure that they are. If I could see them I would give them each a hug. They are victims...whoever kidnapped their daughter made them victims. They didn't set up the kidnapping and they sure didn't want something like that to happen. The important thing right now is finding their daughter. Instead of ragging on the parents we should use that energy to try and figure out what has happened to her.
    Amen to that Bobbisangel! No one is pefect. We could sit here clucking away about how awful her parents are all day long, but it resolves nothing!!
    You won't cry for my absence, I know -
    You forgot me long ago. Am I that unimportant...?
    Am I so insignificant...? Isn't something missing?
    Isn't someone missing me?
    Evanescence
    Please take a moment to see Deanna's Age progression here:
    http://www.missingkids.com/missingki...archLang=en_US
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  4. #379
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    Jeana....did Ireland get TO'd or banned?

    I just want to understand, and for others who 'watched' this happen, why you took such measures? I am assuming becuase she was PERSONALLY attacking you and it wasn't her opinions. WS is FOR freedom of speech. But we DO NOT attack EACHOTHER. We work TOGETHER. We may not always agree, and everyone's different views and talents is what makes this world go around.

    I think this may be a good time for everyone to read the TOS about attacking the post and not the poster.

    4. We strive to provide a safe environment for members to express their ideas without personal attacks or "flames". Please be polite in your posts. Any reply that we feel violates this rule including but not limited to, name calling, ad hominem argument, and profane or racist language will be deleted. If you object to a post, and consider it a flame or insult, please use the "Report post" link instead of insulting the poster back. If you flame others through personal attacks, even in response to a perceived personal attack, you will lose your posting privileges.


    Jeana, if I assumed wrong in why the 'bye bye'...delete this post

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    If this truly is the culture, it needs to change pronto. This is sadly not the world we live in anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobbisangel View Post
    I'm glad that you said that. There isn't one parent on this forum who hasn't done something stupid at some time that could have put their children or child at risk. Luckily for most of us....nothing happened. I don't believe for a minute that these parents had a clue that something like this would happen. If they were dining close to their motel and they could check on the children...like they did...they must have felt comfortable with leaving them sleeping in the motel. Some of the posts that I have read now has the parents out every night dining and drinking and having a great time with other adults there. What it sounded like to me was a couple having a quiet dinner after their children went to sleep. So what if they had a drink with dinner.

    I can't imagine what this couple is going through while waiting to hear something about their daughter. I can't begin to put myself in their shoes. I know I would be carrying a load of guilt of which I'm sure that they are. If I could see them I would give them each a hug. They are victims...whoever kidnapped their daughter made them victims. They didn't set up the kidnapping and they sure didn't want something like that to happen. The important thing right now is finding their daughter. Instead of ragging on the parents we should use that energy to try and figure out what has happened to her.
    I totally agree with you! Now if we could all agree to disagree we could stop clogging this thread with it's the "parent's fault" it's "not the parent's fault" posts.....it's getting old. JMO

  7. #382
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    Quote:

    “She'd be with her family today if her family hadn't left her alone”

    “if they had their dinner in their rooms Madelaine would still be with them today” .

    “If the parents would have hired a babysitter or been in the apartment with the children, Maddie would be safe and sound with her parents and not missing and sadly to say, probably dead.”
    ________________________________________________

    Perhaps, but there is absolutely no way to KNOW this. If this child was being targeted, and it appears that she was, as Scandi pointed out, the perp would have found another opportunity. It only takes a minute - just ask John Walsh.

  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by christine2448 View Post
    Jeana....did Ireland get TO'd or banned?

    I just want to understand, and for others who 'watched' this happen, why you took such measures? I am assuming becuase she was PERSONALLY attacking you and it wasn't her opinions. WS is FOR freedom of speech. But we DO NOT attack EACHOTHER. We work TOGETHER. We may not always agree, and everyone's different views and talents is what makes this world go around.

    I think this may be a good time for everyone to read the TOS about attacking the post and not the poster.

    4. We strive to provide a safe environment for members to express their ideas without personal attacks or "flames". Please be polite in your posts. Any reply that we feel violates this rule including but not limited to, name calling, ad hominem argument, and profane or racist language will be deleted. If you object to a post, and consider it a flame or insult, please use the "Report post" link instead of insulting the poster back. If you flame others through personal attacks, even in response to a perceived personal attack, you will lose your posting privileges.


    Jeana, if I assumed wrong in why the 'bye bye'...delete this post
    Thank you for this post Christine. I understand now that it was the personal nature of the difference in opinion that got this poster in trouble. There are obviously strong views here.

    Jeanna, please consider allowing Ireland back with a warning to keep personal "attacks" out of it.

  9. #384
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    Ireland bated Jeana into a confrontation for whom knows what reason. I knew this was coming yesterday when she took a post Jeana made days ago, resurrected it out of the blue, commented with personal insults and a few other's followed with the commentary or back pat's. Ireland's comments there were over the line, (and other's often didn't jive with those of our other international posters or facts reported through the media). She accussed Jeana one page back of "attention seeking" when Ireland was the one whom started the recent debate. I think she deserved what she got.

    I don't agree with Jeana's view on the parents, but I agree with the action she took with regard to this poster. I would hope if it was anyone of us bated like that, the action would be the same.

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by UK Sleuth View Post
    'I'd personally like to smack each of them upside the head'

    You sound like a charming individual!!!!

    This little girl is missing and you're anger is not at the person who abducted her but the parents who have undoubtedly been very irresponsible.

    I may not have children of my own but I have looked after children particularly my younger brother when he was younger as he is 10 years my junior so I looked after him when I was 18 and he was 8 for example.

    I don't disagree that they have been incredibly irresponsible but my point was and is that its getting incredibly annoying and tedious that people are wanting to tear strips of these people for there irresponsibility.

    Do you not think they are suffering?
    Do you not think they know they have messed up big time?

    You only have to look at them to see that.

    Where is your compassion?

    Like I said it appears certain individuals attitude is 'Well tough luck you shouldnt have been so stupid'

    With people like that in the world its no wonder we are living in such fcuked up societies.

    People dont want to help they want to stand up above everyone else and claim 'I would never have done that'

    Well maybe you wouldn't but what I am saying is people are human and make mistakes.

    Apparrently they were checking on the kids every half an hour, not acceptable in my book as it is not in yours but I unlike some people am not going to roll out the old chestnut that they should of done better every two minutes.

    Eveyone knows they should have had a better eye on them most of all the parents themselves.

    'Hindsight is the best tool that we can't use'
    First I'd like to say I was happy to find this thread as this case has truly touched my heart.

    Secondly I have to say that I too have family that often comes from abroad and they are culturally very different then we are. But that does not change the fact that I used to fight with them about that. This is not their homeland.

    I understand that cultural habits are what they are. But regardless of how educated my family may be or Madeline’s parents are, when they travel they need to know better. I do not understand people not hiring a baby sitter.
    We are now living in a different time not in the 1950's when it was safe.

    Having said that, I do not blame the parents and I pray for Madeline's Safe return and very soon.

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissieMt View Post
    Amen to that Bobbisangel! No one is pefect. We could sit here clucking away about how awful her parents are all day long, but it resolves nothing!!
    I agree.
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  12. #387
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    SewingDeb is offline "Sorry, I'm not qualified to land the plane."
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    I think some have missed the article stating that the parents NEVER checked on the children.

  13. #388
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    The window of opportunity was only one hour:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeana (DP) View Post
    I do have compassion. I think anger and compassion can live side by side. And I never said "tough luck." The reason you're living in such a "f" up society is because people allow themselves to become victims and then want everyone to come and "fix it" for them.

    My 19-year old sister was taken in the middle of the night from my mother's house. She was missing for ELEVEN YEARS before her remains were found. No one was ever arrested for her murder. My mother never forgave herself for not hearing anyone breaking into her house the night my sister disappeared, even though she was at home.

    I have some idea about what this famlily is going through. I also have seen first hand the reasons why you don't leave your children alone ANY PLACE - EVER. I want nothing more than this little girl to get home to her parents. I seriously doubt that its going to be a happy ending to this story. I'm sure they'll be more diligent with the next two children though.
    I am so sorry Jeana, Wow....that is a hard one. A huge hug for you and your Mom (((((((((((HUG)))))))))) and I think that when people travel they are not in their usual environment and should take a baby sitter no mater what. I do not think they should leave them in any place but especially when they are not in their own environment.

  15. #390
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    For US based readers to use if your local media runs stories:

    http://www.projectjason.org/dpforum/...php?postid=8#8

    It would appear to be a UK based media blitz. Of course, this same principal could apply there as they have other missing people, too.

    Surely I couldn't be the only person who wonders that if this child were less than pretty and belonged to a different race, would we even have heard about this?

    Kelly Jolkowski,
    Mother of Missing Jason Jolkowski
    President and Founder,
    Project Jason
    www.projectjason.org
    Author of Psychics and Missing People
    http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com...chics-and.html
    It would be wonderful if psychics could find missing people, but they can't.

  16. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smugshots View Post
    I think we live in an 'F' up society because some people blame the victim instead of the perp, and in cases where the perp is caught the sentence is much to lenient.

    I'm sorry for the loss of your sister Jeana. I'm surprised at your stance on this considering your loss. Since you seem to think it's the victims fault that they were careless, does that mean you think your sister or your mother was careless and allowed your sister to become a victim? I guess this goes to show perps will find a way to take someone even when a parent is there.
    I think Jeana has suffered a huge loss and does not want to see that happen to anyone else. People who have such a horrid experience are overprotective sometimes.
    I do think Jeana is right, while these people may be used to feeling safe with a half hour check in within their environment, they should have taken a baby sitter while they are in another environment no matter what.
    However I am sure these people were just naive not careless.

  17. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utopia View Post
    Quote:

    “She'd be with her family today if her family hadn't left her alone”

    “if they had their dinner in their rooms Madelaine would still be with them today” .

    “If the parents would have hired a babysitter or been in the apartment with the children, Maddie would be safe and sound with her parents and not missing and sadly to say, probably dead.”
    ________________________________________________

    Perhaps, but there is absolutely no way to KNOW this. If this child was being targeted, and it appears that she was, as Scandi pointed out, the perp would have found another opportunity. It only takes a minute - just ask John Walsh.
    I think her parents are beating themselves up every minute of every day. I think blame will not get their child back.
    I wish we can all support them and not blame them. Being naïve is not a sin.
    Look at Elizabeth Smart who was abducted from her own home. The perps find ways.

    I think every Hotel in the world should have a sign BY LAW at the check in,and give a flyer to each family. “DO NOT LEAVE YOUR CHILDREN – WE HAVE QUALIFIED BABY SITERS"

  18. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by SewingDeb View Post
    I think some have missed the article stating that the parents NEVER checked on the children.
    Could you please post a link?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeDiem View Post
    Elizabeth Smart, Ben Owmby and Shawn Hornbeck, Shasta Groene - SURVIVORS. I hope we can soon add Madeleine McCann to that list. With the whole world watching, what a time for God to give another miracle.
    From your Mouth to Gods ears.

  20. #395
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    A few thoughts here:

    Have they looked into the possibility they maybe Maddie left the room on her own and went in search of her parents? Maybe then is when she met with foul play.

    How far away is their room from the water? Is it possible that Maddie left the room and wandered into the water and drowned?

    Also, it was said that the father checked on Maddie at 9pm and they were fine. The mother then went in an hour later and Maddie was missing. How do we know that this is true? Have the parents been looked at? How long was the father gone when he checked the children at 9pm. How long was the mother gone an hour later before she reported Maddie was missing? It wouldn't be the first time unfortunately that parents have harmed their own children.

    Just brainstorming!

  21. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissieMt View Post
    Amen to that Bobbisangel! No one is pefect. We could sit here clucking away about how awful her parents are all day long, but it resolves nothing!!
    we often look at not only the crime here but what led up to it. if 1 person who reads all this decideds it is wrong to continue to leave their child in danger then every word was worth it to me.

  22. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ireland_07 View Post
    "The parents caused this"?????

    CAUSED?

    You are as incorrect as you are smug and heartless: the evil scum who abducted Madeleine caused this, no one else.

    As I said before, Madeleine's parents were guilty of innocence, in that they believed their children would be as safe in a Portuguese resort as children always have been in that part of the world, which I know so well (I can't imagine you'd be bothered reading my far-too-long post on this issue, but it's a few pages back).

    If you want to accuse them of being negligent, etc, etc, then fine, that's your view and you are more than entitled to it, but to be so venomous, at a time like this, as to accuse them of "causing" this is beyond belief.

    I stand by what I said, the smug and pitliess who express these oh-so-easy views should be ashamed. It's mind-boggling how, at a time like this, so many turn on the victims, rather than directing their contempt at the guilty.
    Dear Ireland, My daughter is now 40 and I had her during times that were much safer then these times. But I have to tell you that if and when we went away to a resort, a hotel, or even at home if we left the house for a half an hour I GOT A BABY SITTER, I never left anything to chance not even 40 years ago when times were much better to raise children. Some called me overprotective; Once we were upstate New York in the mountains and everyone knew everyone there; My husband and I wanted to go out and I asked his Mom to watch her; she told me leave the baby sleeping and I will come in and look in on her; I GOT A SITTER and my Mother in-law asked me “Are you a Millionaire or Neurotic”. Frankly my dear I could not have eaten one bit of dinner in peace thinking that my child was not attended.
    I think these people were just Naive.

  23. #398
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    The McCanns are Just Weird

    Here is their diary of how they've been spending their days in the Algarve since Maddie went missing:

    How we keep going: Madeleine's parents' diary of courage

    Last updated at 15:55pm on 20th May 2007
    Comments (10)
    Our day starts around 6.30am with us all waking up around the same time.


    We have breakfast with Sean and Amelie and close family/friends who are here.
    Then it's clean nappies and clothes for the twins followed by showers etc for the rest of us.
    Usually there's some free time then for a few stories or games with the twins before heading out.
    Scroll down for more
    Book at Bedtime: Gerry and Kate read to Sean and Amelie at about 7pm each day


    More....


    9.00-9.15
    We take Sean and Amelie to Kids' Club. They really enjoy it and run in. They know the staff well and the staff are all excellent.
    Both love the domestic corner and Amelie particularly likes to look after "babies".
    We use the Kids' Club a bit like nursery at home but we think Sean and Amelie still think they are on holiday!
    9.30-12.15
    We return to the apartments, usually for a series of meetings with our press officer, Mark Warner reps, occasionally Consulate staff, lawyers and British liaison officers.
    During this time we catch up with family and close friends, usually by telephone and discuss ideas about how to keep Madeleine's profile high, especially throughout continental Europe. Scroll down for more

  24. #399
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    And, OH, BTW, Our Daughter has been kidnapped:

    • How we keep going: Madeleine's parents' diary of courage


    Last updated at 15:55pm on 20th May 2007 Comments (10)


    12.30
    Time to pick up Sean and Amelie from Kids' Club then head back to the apartment for lunch, which has usually been prepared by one of our family/friends group who have been tremendously supportive.
    13.30-14.30
    This is time to spend playing with the twins either in the apartment or in the play area next to Kids' Club.
    14.30-15.00
    Usually we take the twins back to Kids' Club although Sean has had the odd afternoon in the apartment as it's a bit cooler and he's not much of a sun worshipper!
    They have been taking part in many different activities including painting, singing, stories, swimming, trips to the beach and they have lots of toys to play with.
    Scroll down for more
    Kate helps Amelie tuck into lunch


    15.00-17.00
    We try to get some time together alone, going for a walk to talk things over or getting some exercise. This is often the time for quiet trips to the church for prayers.
    17.00-17.30
    Meet kids for high tea with other mums and dads. They love pasta and have been doing really well with their vegetables although a few chips have been squeezed in.
    17.30-18.30
    Games with kids at play area. Amelie loves trying to get in the baby pool!
    18.30-19.30
    Bath and story time with the twins.
    20.00
    We put the kids to bed.
    20.30-23.00
    We try to sit down for a family meal, again usually cooked by one of the small group out here with us. Chat about the day's events and plan the next day.
    23.30
    Bed and prayer that Madeleine will be returned to us safely ASAP.
    In addition to above we try to attend various church services, and make multiple phone calls to family and friends.
    We try to watch the main news morning and night but have had almost no time to read the newspapers or even look at the pictures.
    Kate is a keen runner and in the last few days has tried to include a run in the daily routine. Yesterday at 7am we ran to the monument at the top of the steep cliff overlooking Praia da Luz. We reached it in 19 minutes.

  25. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by sherri79 View Post
    we often look at not only the crime here but what led up to it. if 1 person who reads all this decideds it is wrong to continue to leave their child in danger then every word was worth it to me.
    I agree that everyone's opinion on whether or not the parents were to blame needed to be expressed. I just think it was becoming very redundant.
    And thank you Sherri for explaining to me how things work here on websleuths, because I had no idea....
    You won't cry for my absence, I know -
    You forgot me long ago. Am I that unimportant...?
    Am I so insignificant...? Isn't something missing?
    Isn't someone missing me?
    Evanescence
    Please take a moment to see Deanna's Age progression here:
    http://www.missingkids.com/missingki...archLang=en_US
    Deanna Merryfield-missing from Killeen,Tx since July 1990
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=106164

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