05-16-2007, 10:24 PM #226Former Member
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- Apr 2004
05-16-2007, 10:44 PM #227Registered User
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- Jul 2004
- Long Island, NY
I told Lion yesterday about those babies being left in the strollers outside cafe`s in Scandanavia/Iceland, and I also said (rather seriously) I wouldn't want to offend anyone if this practice of leaving young children alone is cultural.
But that article you posted there has me FURIOUS. Cultural or not, it's wrong.
05-17-2007, 01:17 AM #228Registered User
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- Sep 2005
Mrs G728, this is not directed at you, I just used your post to quote since it is the last one.
My American family and friends are visibly and verbally in shock and disbelief when they visit regarding various child rearing practices here.
My Norwegian/Scandinavian and most European friends are in the same visible and verbal disbelief when they visit the USA.
This naturally creates a great deal of discussion after vacations and dinner conversation for a long time after.
Iceland is a country of less than 300,000 people. It is an island with only one airport. Most of the Icelandic people are related to each other for generations. They have very, large extended families. They all look out for one another. Tourism has only really become an influence within the last decade, and is not very large at that. The Icelandic language is not widely spoken outside Iceland... difficult to learn without an accent and everyone knows who is an outsider. The airport has few daily flights to limited places and is located outside the capital. And yes, Iceland is green.
Greenland, which is governed by Denmark is very icy. Just a little background. Crime is extremely rare. Yes,babies are left to sleep in the daytime to sleep in their prams out side the house. In the past couple of years, baby monitors have begun to be used...but not widely.
This is so very true here in Norway, as well as Sweden. And I can go on and on. Yes, there is an underlying cultural difference. Yes,it is more than likely a sense of false security (think the USA in the fifties). Things are changing..but not fast. There has been no child snatching, only maybe one or two stranger murders and possible 35 murders per yr- in a bad year- and family or foreigner gang related.
When Scandinavians visit the states, they are shocked by the gun laws., the school mass murders, the non family crime, the missing people and on and on. They see schools with metal detectors, security guards and police everywhere--especially disturbed by security at schools--and guns, drugs, rapes, wacko teachers, wacko religious leaders, wacko politicians-- on and on. The sense is of a non-healthy, troubled , chaotic and dangerous place to raise children or to grow up.
I am not passing judgment. Just felt like I needed to put in my two cents. Our country is not perfect by any means....mainly different problems--binge drinking amongst adults for one. You drive over the limit, which is less than one light beer, you loose your license for a year with a heavy fine. Legal driving age is 18, yet costs about 9,000 USD to get (if you pass the first time) and in most families, the children pay. They are independent at 18, so therefore do not get their license until they earn the money themselves....and to buy a car is cost prohibited---teens do not drive drunk is basically what I was trying to get at.
Well, that was quite a ramble and a bit off topic.
It is 7am here and it is the 17 Mai--our independence day. Getting ready for the festivities and the parades.
Will address issue in Portugal and contained holiday resorts later--if there is any interest. As I have already stated here in WS, I work with Save the Children in this particular re for years.
But time to celebrate here.
My thoughts and prayers are with Maddie and her family today. As I see all the children enjoying the celebrations today, I only so wish all children everywhere can be as fortunate and as happy as our little Norwegian ones will be today. It is just so terribly sad that so many families and children will not be rejoicing for way too many reasons
05-17-2007, 01:25 AM #229Former Member
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- Nov 2006
Petra, incredible post.
I hope you keep sharing and posting on this topic.
05-17-2007, 01:29 AM #230Registered User
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- Sep 2005
05-17-2007, 04:51 AM #231Registered User
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- May 2004
The info about him is really interesting. I guess he didn't want to move back to his wife's hometown even though they were getting along when she left. Maybe he did take Maddy as a replacement for his own little girl. I would rather he has her someplace safe then a random kidnapper who might be a pervert and could murder her. If this guy has her he will no doubt treat her like his own because in his mind he might have convinced himself that she is.
05-17-2007, 06:01 AM #232Registered User
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- Feb 2007
I am getting a little fed up with sanctimonious people who all they can say is 'I can't believe the little girl was left alone'
The parents in this instance have undoubtedly made an error in judgement by leaving the child however I don't think it's fair to keep banging the drum about what they 'should' have done.
It seems to me the abduction of their daughter is punishment enough.
They have made a mistake, have paid the price and then some.
It's almost as if peoples attitudes are 'Well tough you shouldnt have left her alone'
I am not a parent but I can only imagine what a hard task it must be to watch them 24/7.
The world is more and more developing a blame culture, somethings gone wrong and someone is to blame, yes the sick f*ck who took her that's who.
Please stop blaming the parents all the while I am sure if they could have one wish it would be to turn the clock back and not make their error.
05-17-2007, 06:02 AM #233
05-17-2007, 08:42 AM #234Registered User
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- Jan 2007
- Not there
Yes, englishleigh, Ian Huntley was the caretaker at Holly and Jessica's school. His partner, Maxine Carr, was a relief techer at the school.
Holly and Jessica went for a walk that took them past Huntley's house. He planted himself front and centre in front of the media and carried on about how he knew the girls, how lovely they were, and then eventually went on to say that he felt terrible because he was sure he was the last one to see them alive because he talked to them as they walked past his house that evening. As soon as he said that, I knew he was their killer, and I knew that LE would also know and were simply letting him talk to the media to give him more rope to hang himself with.
Maxine Carr also paraded herself in front of the cameras with cards Holly and Jessica had made for her in school.
You can see why people are making comparisons between Huntley and Murat. We've also all heard stories of murderers joining in searches for children they have killed, LE videotaping the onlookers at crime scenes because odds on the perpetrator is there, and getting involved in other ways.
I understand that Murat has been acting as interpreter for Maddie's parents and has been in their hotel room. He can of course then claim that any DNA found is because of that, etc.
However, I will also say that there was a series of murders of prostitutes in Sussex last year and a man who knew all 5 women inserted himself into the case, gave long rambling interviews about how he wished he could have "saved" them, etc., and he was arrested. However it was quickly established that he wasn't the murderer.
So I guess Murat gets the benefit of the doubt at this stage. His comment about Maddie looking like his own (estranged) daughter worries me greatly though.
05-17-2007, 09:03 AM #235
Fox News is reporting something about a "secret chamber" with a "trapdoor" that may have been found in a nearby house...I'm assuming Murat's home, or the web designer guy...no article available yet but the story is coming up soon....
05-17-2007, 09:05 AM #236Please help find Gerry Largay, 66, missing on the Appalachian Trail in Maine.
05-17-2007, 09:06 AM #237
I can definitely see parallels with this case and Murat's behavior. I pray Maddie will be found alive. There is a report on FNC about a "secret chamber" that has been found...would be so wonderful if Maddie was found there, alive!!
05-17-2007, 09:18 AM #238
I agree with you that there is something unsettling about him saying Maddie looks like his own daughter.
There is so much speculation about this case and so little real information from the police that it is hard to know what is what!
However, i do understand and have read several times that there is NO EVIDENCE of an intruder in Maddies apartment. There is no evidence that the window or door were forced. Unfortunately they were unlocked. There is every chance that Maddie simply walked out of the apartment and somebody abducted her on the street. If, in fact she has been abducted.www.findmadeleine.com
05-17-2007, 09:26 AM #239
Per Fox News' report:
1.) Police have finished questioning the web designer guy, who is Russian. He remains under suspicion.
2) They are questioning Murat again and searching his home again. Murat still
3) A secret chamber was found in Murat's home and that's what they are looking at closely today...Maddie was not found inside it, but they are investigating the idea that she could have been held there for a time.
05-17-2007, 10:12 AM #240Former Member
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- Aug 2003
I couldn't even possibly disagree with you more. These are two very educated people. They're completely 100% RESPONSIBLE for whatever happened to their little girl. I'd personally like to smack each of them upside the head. HOW DARE they put these children in danger like they did. ANYTHING could have happened. They could have fallen into inches of water and drowned. They could have been burned in a fire. They could have cut themselves on something. They could have stuck their little fingers in a socket. They left them alone for DINNER? Are you kidding me? In a foreign country, in a strange hotel room at night! They didn't know their way around the room they were in. They didn't know anyone in the area. They couldn't even make a phone call to alert anyone. I don't care how heartbroken they are NOW about what happened. They absolutely should have thought about it before they decided to be two of the most ridiculous people on the face of the earth and leave these babies alone simply so they could grab a bite to eat.
Okay, rant over.
Edited to add, go right ahead and call me sanctimonious. However, until you have children of your own, you honestly don't have the experience for it to mean anything to me.
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