Psychiatrists, Children and Drug Industry’s Role

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/10/health/10psyche.html?_r=1&oref=slogin



When Anya Bailey developed an eating disorder after her 12th birthday, her mother took her to a psychiatrist at the University of Minnesota who prescribed a powerful antipsychotic drug called Risperdal.
Skip to next paragraph Prescription for Influence

Beyond the Label
The New York Times




Created for schizophrenia, Risperdal is not approved to treat eating disorders, but increased appetite is a common side effect and doctors may prescribe drugs as they see fit. Anya gained weight but within two years developed a crippling knot in her back. She now receives regular injections of Botox to unclench her back muscles. She often awakens crying in pain.
Isabella Bailey, Anya’s mother, said she had no idea that children might be especially susceptible to Risperdal’s side effects. Nor did she know that Risperdal and similar medicines were not approved at the time to treat children, or that medical trials often cited to justify the use of such drugs had as few as eight children taking the drug by the end.


See the link for the entire article. Edited by moderator due to copyright infringement.

My grandsons take Abilify for their problems and it really worries me even though it dramatically and immediately improved their behavior the next day after taking it. I felt forced to put them on this and ritalin thanks to the creeps down at the local school. I was harassed for over a year because they were not on a stimulant but were taking an antidepressant that I felt was safer. Finally, the school turned me into CPS over the matter and that was all I could take even though it was not legal for them to do this or for CPS to bring this up. They grilled and grilled one child and finally got him to say that my husband threatened to use duct tape over the mouth several years ago during a screaming tantrum. That's all they could even come up that the kids might think was mean that we said or did, but was all it took to make the CPS call which was really about the medication and those horrible women's insistence that the kids take stimulants. Many kids are on this stuff because of teachers who think they are Gods and who make their own diagnosis and force parents with harassment and threats. Ritalin helped my grandsons focus but after awhile made their behavior even worse, the Abilify has totally made them seem almost normal and if it eventually kills them, no one will care except their family.

txsvicki said:

My grandsons take Abilify for their problems and it really worries me even though it dramatically and immediately improved their behavior the next day after taking it. I felt forced to put them on this and ritalin thanks to the creeps down at the local school. I was harassed for over a year because they were not on a stimulant but were taking an antidepressant that I felt was safer. Finally, the school turned me into CPS over the matter and that was all I could take even though it was not legal for them to do this or for CPS to bring this up. They grilled and grilled one child and finally got him to say that my husband threatened to use duct tape over the mouth several years ago during a screaming tantrum. That's all they could even come up that the kids might think was mean that we said or did, but was all it took to make the CPS call which was really about the medication and those horrible women's insistence that the kids take stimulants. Many kids are on this stuff because of teachers who think they are Gods and who make their own diagnosis and force parents with harassment and threats. Ritalin helped my grandsons focus but after awhile made their behavior even worse, the Abilify has totally made them seem almost normal and if it eventually kills them, no one will care except their family.

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txsvicki, I have a friend who was strongly encouraged (threatened with her child being expelled) by a teacher who thought it was in the child's best interest to be on ADHD medication. While she didn't encounter the situation that you did with CPS, she did put her child on the suggested medication. I absolutely hate that in some cases the people we depend on for sound decisions regarding our children, it can turn into such a horrible mess. I pray that your grandchildren are not negatively affected by the Albify. My wish is that "we" could find a different answer than medicating our children. The "say no to drugs" campaign is a great idea but to me it seems we enforce "say no to drugs unless admininstered by an adult"... kind of a mixed message?

(I "had" a tantrum prone child- he's grown now and not prone to tantrums any longer. Had to wait til he was old enough to call the police on him for domestic disturbance. Those were the longest years of my life!)

I have lots to say on the issue of children and Psychotropic medications but for now, I'll leave it at this- a couple of months ago my sons shrink was pressuring me to put my son on Xanax for his anxiety/panic issues that go along with his OCD and I refused! I *know* how addictive Benzodiazepines are and there is no way in hell I'd allow my 13 year old child to so much as look at one single pill from the bottle!!

If you mean me, then what am I supposed to do? I don't trust anyone except myself, but I can't sit around and let the kids end up in alternative schools, juvenile detention under arrest, foster homes, boy's ranch, etc. This is what all I was threatened with due to the boys behavior and I can't move to another state, can't home school due to health issues, and I do believe that there is some underlying mental disease along with severe ADHD. If I don't do something with the behavior getting worse and something bad happens, then I would be blamed and risk having the other grandkids hauled off and ones with problems taken to mental hospitals or jail. This has happened to parents and especially grandparents and their psychologist (who doesn't prescribe medication) was worried that it would happen to us. I'm more worried about the ritalin than the abilify in the longterm though.

txsvicki said:

If you mean me, then what am I supposed to do? I don't trust anyone except myself, but I can't sit around and let the kids end up in alternative schools, juvenile detention under arrest, foster homes, boy's ranch, etc. This is what all I was threatened with due to the boys behavior and I can't move to another state, can't home school due to health issues, and I do believe that there is some underlying mental disease along with severe ADHD. If I don't do something with the behavior getting worse and something bad happens, then I would be blamed and risk having the other grandkids hauled off and ones with problems taken to mental hospitals or jail. This has happened to parents and especially grandparents and their psychologist (who doesn't prescribe medication) was worried that it would happen to us. I'm more worried about the ritalin than the abilify in the longterm though.

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I am not criticizing you or any other parent who has been faced with medicating their child. I am bothered by the fact that some parents have been bullied into it by school districts and doctors.
At the same time, many children have been helped by meds.
The article I posted presented some ethics issues for me between doctors and the drug industry. There are some pretty serious side effects to these medications. I don't think they should be prescribed so quickly. The fact that they've never been tested on children makes these kids guinea pigs.

OneLostGrl said:

I have lots to say on the issue of children and Psychotropic medications but for now, I'll leave it at this- a couple of months ago my sons shrink was pressuring me to put my son on Xanax for his anxiety/panic issues that go along with his OCD and I refused! I *know* how addictive Benzodiazepines are and there is no way in hell I'd allow my 13 year old child to so much as look at one single pill from the bottle!!

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Is he on any meds for that?
I've heard good things about omega 3.

My question is this:

If it isn't allowed to test the drugs on children (which I understand), then how do we find drugs to help children for whom other therapies are not working? What does a parent try when all else has failed? If you fear that your child might die or be locked away forever, would you be willing to try a drug that is experimental or might harm them?

I ask b/c we have a friend whose son is on Risperdal. It is frightening. He is bi-polar and has psychotic episodes.He has had to be put in an inpatient facility for several weeks on multiple occasions. He sees multiple therapists and a social worker, and the family gets family counseling. He goes to a school where he is mainstreamed for much of the day, but also gets behavior and occupational therapy for part of the day.

I have no idea what more could be done for this child. His parents have done everything that they can find to do, but when he is off the meds he is violent and frightening. He runs away, and has run into traffic as if he's in a trance, at night, in the rain. He is strong enough that he cannot be controlled by his mom alone, and she frequently needs to call for backup. He has hurt her in the past - scratches that break the skin, bruises on her head, arms, face, neck and legs. Even on the meds he sometimes has "bad days."

He is only 10. What will he be like when puberty hits? It is scary.

It is not right for doctors to be paid by drug companies. I would think that violates some kind of ethics rule; it is conflict of interest.

txsvicki said:

My grandsons take Abilify for their problems and it really worries me even though it dramatically and immediately improved their behavior the next day after taking it. I felt forced to put them on this and ritalin thanks to the creeps down at the local school. I was harassed for over a year because they were not on a stimulant but were taking an antidepressant that I felt was safer. Finally, the school turned me into CPS over the matter and that was all I could take even though it was not legal for them to do this or for CPS to bring this up. They grilled and grilled one child and finally got him to say that my husband threatened to use duct tape over the mouth several years ago during a screaming tantrum. That's all they could even come up that the kids might think was mean that we said or did, but was all it took to make the CPS call which was really about the medication and those horrible women's insistence that the kids take stimulants. Many kids are on this stuff because of teachers who think they are Gods and who make their own diagnosis and force parents with harassment and threats. Ritalin helped my grandsons focus but after awhile made their behavior even worse, the Abilify has totally made them seem almost normal and if it eventually kills them, no one will care except their family.

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AMEN...this happen's all the time. What a terrible story.

xxxxxxoooo
mama:blowkiss:

angelmom said:

My question is this:

If it isn't allowed to test the drugs on children (which I understand), then how do we find drugs to help children for whom other therapies are not working? What does a parent try when all else has failed? If you fear that your child might die or be locked away forever, would you be willing to try a drug that is experimental or might harm them?

I ask b/c we have a friend whose son is on Risperdal. It is frightening. He is bi-polar and has psychotic episodes.He has had to be put in an inpatient facility for several weeks on multiple occasions. He sees multiple therapists and a social worker, and the family gets family counseling. He goes to a school where he is mainstreamed for much of the day, but also gets behavior and occupational therapy for part of the day.

I have no idea what more could be done for this child. His parents have done everything that they can find to do, but when he is off the meds he is violent and frightening. He runs away, and has run into traffic as if he's in a trance, at night, in the rain. He is strong enough that he cannot be controlled by his mom alone, and she frequently needs to call for backup. He has hurt her in the past - scratches that break the skin, bruises on her head, arms, face, neck and legs. Even on the meds he sometimes has "bad days."

He is only 10. What will he be like when puberty hits? It is scary.

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Sadly and I mean 'sadly' drugs are the main things that help these people and many Doctor's mis-diagnose what type of Mental Illness a person has. The only way they have of doing this to prescribe a drug which has helped someone else who is mentally ill and having those same symptoms. BUT a doctor MUST observe the symptoms and carefully access the history and the course of the illness over six months, in order to make a correct diagnosis. A WHOLE lot of Doctor's do NOT do this!

My daughter was bi-polar with psychotic episodes, but few psychotic moments. She was diagnosed at age 21 with schizophrenia.. period!
That was on the first day this Doctor had ever met her! JERK!

I walked her right out of that office so fast you wouldn't belive it!
Because I knew a number of good doctors.........I took her to someone else who really cared about my and daughter and our family.

From what you say, my guess is that this child has to be given his meds and the RIGHT meds and take them all the time.....what this family should do is to privately take him to another doctor and a second diagnosis.
A 10 yr. old with those symptoms sounds to me more like just schizophrenia but I'm not a Doctor I know for a fact that schizophrenia shares many of the same symptoms as "bi-polar with psychotic episodes!" A doctor observes the symptoms of schizophrenia and carefully assesses the history and the course of the illness over six months, ONLY he or she can almost always make a correct diagnosis.

Now, back to taking new meds. You have GOT to have a good Doctor. They're hard to find! Yes, you have to belive and throughly trust a Doctor.

Also I am suggesting if your friend hasn't already done so to join (free) NAMI which is THe National Alliance on Mental Illness"

Here's the website. RUN, don't walk there"

http://www.nami.org/

They have Chapters in every state..........and the amount of information and help they will get is absolutely amazing! Please, have your friend go to a meeting.
You can call them anytime........they are wonderful people!

Keep us posted. I'd like to hear what happens......

I feel terrible for this family. Mental illness is a cancer, worse than anything kind of cancer you can imagine. It is a non-fault brain disease....which had carried a stigma for many years. It's got to end!

xxxxxxxooo

mama:blowkiss: :blowkiss:

OneLostGrl said:

I have lots to say on the issue of children and Psychotropic medications but for now, I'll leave it at this- a couple of months ago my sons shrink was pressuring me to put my son on Xanax for his anxiety/panic issues that go along with his OCD and I refused! I *know* how addictive Benzodiazepines are and there is no way in hell I'd allow my 13 year old child to so much as look at one single pill from the bottle!!

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Good for you OneLostGrl. Glad you're posting here. Hope all is well with you and your extended family!

xxxxxxooooooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

Thank you for that link, LM. I forwarded it to the mom. Unfortunately, they are the same family I posted about on the prayer thread. Very difficult.

csds703 said:

Is he on any meds for that?
I've heard good things about omega 3.

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The only medication I have given into for him to take thus far is an antidepressent (Celexa). Although it does not take away all of his symptoms it does help to slow down his thoughts, his ticks and his anxiety. I keep a very close eye on him, his diet and sleep patterns as they are very important for those with mental illnesses.

I'm trying to give him coping skills rather than make him dependent on medications. I'm trying to teach him that no medication will take every one of his symptoms away but if he stays on the one (Anti-depressent), it will make it possible for him to be more aware and have more control over the other symptoms.

Who knows how it'll all turn out- I just pray he doesn't end up like I did!!

I suspected that the boys' doctor might be getting some sort of kickback for getting kids to go on the metadate (ritalin) patch, because he was so insistent about the issue. I refused the patch because of fears that the older boy might take his off at school or let another kid handle it and then be arrested and charged with having a controlled substance.

OneLostGrl said:

The only medication I have given into for him to take thus far is an antidepressent (Celexa). Although it does not take away all of his symptoms it does help to slow down his thoughts, his ticks and his anxiety. I keep a very close eye on him, his diet and sleep patterns as they are very important for those with mental illnesses.

I'm trying to give him coping skills rather than make him dependent on medications. I'm trying to teach him that no medication will take every one of his symptoms away but if he stays on the one (Anti-depressent), it will make it possible for him to be more aware and have more control over the other symptoms.

Who knows how it'll all turn out- I just pray he doesn't end up like I did!!

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Have you ever tried bio feedback for the anxiety and tics. Cognitive behaviorial therapy also works for some.
You probably know more about all this stuff than I can ever know.:doh:

I really just hope to hear that both you and your son are doing well and happy.

txsvicki said:

I suspected that the boys' doctor might be getting some sort of kickback for getting kids to go on the metadate (ritalin) patch, because he was so insistent about the issue. I refused the patch because of fears that the older boy might take his off at school or let another kid handle it and then be arrested and charged with having a controlled substance.

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This is sort of a catch 22 for me.
If the medication being prescribed really is a good match for someone's symptoms, should it matter if the doc is getting a kick back.

csds703 said:

This is sort of a catch 22 for me.
If the medication being prescribed really is a good match for someone's symptoms, should it matter if the doc is getting a kick back.

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But what prompted the doctor to prescribe the drug? The kick back. If something is truly a good product, word of mouth will spread and drs will prescribe it w/o having to get payback for it.

Ang50 said:

But what prompted the doctor to prescribe the drug? The kick back. If something is truly a good product, word of mouth will spread and drs will prescribe it w/o having to get payback for it.

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You are right but doctors get paid all the time for participating in drug studies amongst other things.