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Thread: FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #4

  1. #151
    This says the FBI and FDLE determined the height.
    Orlando investigators asked for FBI assistance to verify their calculations on that person's height and other physical characteristics, Jones said. Police aren't yet disclosing that information.
    http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/new...lpin.html#more
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  2. #152
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    I still stand by my post stating these opinions:

    There is no obvious crime scene.

    There is no time for the crime.

    There are no witnesses.

    There is no evidence.

    There is no body.

    There is no motive.

    If there are real answers to the above then the detectives on this case should have made an arrest months ago.

    Also I can't forget the comment by the detective in charge of the case at the time:
    'this is as close to a vanishing as I have seen'.
    Just take time to think about what he said.


    My basic reason for the list are these:

    There is no obvious crime scene. My opinion is the car was declared a crime scene because that was all they had. Forensic tests hadn't even been carried out at the time of the declaration.
    Who is to say the victim wasn't bundled into the perpetrator's vehicle and that is the crime scene. The real crime scene could also have been in any unit or house or park or woods.
    Was the abduction at Mosaic or someplace else.

    There is no time for the crime. By time I mean tick tock time not a date. Was it midnight on Monday or 6am Tuesday. Perhaps it was 8:30am when she stopped somewhere on her way to work. It could have been anytime after 10pm on the Monday night.

    There are no witnesses. I have not seen any reports of witnesses coming forward to say they saw Jennifer being abducted. I haven't heard of anyone saying they heard screams or calls for help. That's the kind of witness the investigators need.

    There is no evidence. As far as I'm aware there has been no sign of a struggle. There was no pool of blood, none of her clothing and no jewelry left behind after she was abducted.
    I have heard about partial prints and hair from the car and more recently DNA. It's terrific if they have these but they still haven't produced an arrest. This tells me the suspect isn't on the data bases they use.
    However it means that there is a very good chance that one day there will be a match to the evidence they have.
    Still, until the police confirm publicly they have evidence, forensic or otherwise there is only hearsay to go on.

    There is no body. If this is a homicide a body will show the cause of death and may hold other critical information. Also a body makes for a better case for the DA. Obviously it also confirms the case is a homicide.

    There is no motive. This could have been an abduction, rape and homicide.
    Getting into left field it could have been a sex slave ring or a white slave gang.
    It might have been a thrill kill.
    It may have been triggered by jealousy.
    Was it a professional hit?

    All this stuff is only my opinion and basically thinking aloud.
    It is also subjective.

    We are all on the same side and if we keep chipping away we help keep the case alive and you never know, we might help get a result.

  3. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Myserty64 View Post
    I still stand by my post stating these opinions:

    There is no obvious crime scene.

    There is no time for the crime.

    There are no witnesses.

    There is no evidence.

    There is no body.

    There is no motive.

    If there are real answers to the above then the detectives on this case should have made an arrest months ago.

    Also I can't forget the comment by the detective in charge of the case at the time:
    'this is as close to a vanishing as I have seen'.
    Just take time to think about what he said.


    My basic reason for the list are these:

    There is no obvious crime scene. My opinion is the car was declared a crime scene because that was all they had. Forensic tests hadn't even been carried out at the time of the declaration.
    Who is to say the victim wasn't bundled into the perpetrator's vehicle and that is the crime scene. The real crime scene could also have been in any unit or house or park or woods.
    Was the abduction at Mosaic or someplace else.

    There is no time for the crime. By time I mean tick tock time not a date. Was it midnight on Monday or 6am Tuesday. Perhaps it was 8:30am when she stopped somewhere on her way to work. It could have been anytime after 10pm on the Monday night.

    There are no witnesses. I have not seen any reports of witnesses coming forward to say they saw Jennifer being abducted. I haven't heard of anyone saying they heard screams or calls for help. That's the kind of witness the investigators need.

    There is no evidence. As far as I'm aware there has been no sign of a struggle. There was no pool of blood, none of her clothing and no jewelry left behind after she was abducted.
    I have heard about partial prints and hair from the car and more recently DNA. It's terrific if they have these but they still haven't produced an arrest. This tells me the suspect isn't on the data bases they use.
    However it means that there is a very good chance that one day there will be a match to the evidence they have.
    Still, until the police confirm publicly they have evidence, forensic or otherwise there is only hearsay to go on.

    There is no body. If this is a homicide a body will show the cause of death and may hold other critical information. Also a body makes for a better case for the DA. Obviously it also confirms the case is a homicide.

    There is no motive. This could have been an abduction, rape and homicide.
    Getting into left field it could have been a sex slave ring or a white slave gang.
    It might have been a thrill kill.
    It may have been triggered by jealousy.
    Was it a professional hit?

    All this stuff is only my opinion and basically thinking aloud.
    It is also subjective.

    We are all on the same side and if we keep chipping away we help keep the case alive and you never know, we might help get a result.
    Agree. spot on post.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    This says the FBI and FDLE determined the height.
    Orlando investigators asked for FBI assistance to verify their calculations on that person's height and other physical characteristics, Jones said. Police aren't yet disclosing that information.
    http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/new...lpin.html#more

    SS

    If you go back to the previous Thread, Part 2, I gave a link which shows how LE estimated the height of the POI. Included in the link is video of the Kesse's walking the property at HOTG.

    I beleive after the local police took their estimate, rumor is the FBi reviewed the measurements.

    left

  5. #155
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    Mystery

    I agree with every single item in your post.

    Mystery:

    Where did you hear these rumors about hair and prints in the car? IF true, did LE confirm this? IF true, How does Le know the DNA is from the perp., and not from a friend of Jk's, a valet, a relative, a co-worker, neighbor, or anyone who has ridden in Jk's car. We all lose hair everyday, so shouldn't there be some hairs scattered in the car? Maybe, LE was able to gather hairs from the headrest of the driver's seat. Not, that would be very damaging.

    Same question for the prints.

    I've said it before, I think a print is a much better chance. The 10 seconds that LE fast forwarded the tape, maybe, the POI touched the outside of the car, went into the trunk, etc. and LE got a partial. Let's hope so. Plus, how does LE know the prints aren't from JK? Does anyone know if she was ever printed?

    IF LE has DNA or prints, this case should have been solved long ago. Just get samples from suspects, compare, and also compare the body structure, height, to the POI. I don't get why its' not solved if LE has prints or DNA. Only case, would be a complete stranger, who has escaped the "tip line".

    Does anyone know if LE has requested DNA or prints from suspects? For example, family members, Rob, Logan, should all have given their prints and DNA to exclude them as the print and DNA sample (assuming they rode in JK's car).

    Mystery: How much faith do you have in the rumor about the DNA and print evidence?


    left

  6. #156
    OK so suppose LE is right. If it is a male at 5' 4"...first thing that comes to mind is a horse jockey. I realize that is stereotyping...but in Florida...jockeys are pretty abundant in Ocala, Fl which is only an hour away. Just a thought. Could explain the odd clothing tho.

    I got too busy to call the Mall of Millenia to inquire about the clothing worn by their Valet and Security. I will try to remember to do that Tuesday. (And if he is only 5' 4"...I think we can safely rule out security guard! LOL)
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  7. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by leftcoast View Post
    SS

    If you go back to the previous Thread, Part 2, I gave a link which shows how LE estimated the height of the POI. Included in the link is video of the Kesse's walking the property at HOTG.

    I beleive after the local police took their estimate, rumor is the FBi reviewed the measurements.

    left
    Yes, I remember that post. That is why I thought this was interesting...for them to say the FBI and FDLE did it. I would like to know if they did just review the measurements tho or if they actually went back and measured it out more accurately.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    Yes, I remember that post. That is why I thought this was interesting...for them to say the FBI and FDLE did it. I would like to know if they did just review the measurements tho or if they actually went back and measured it out more accurately.
    Correct. I would love to know that the FBi did an independent test using their own measurements, lasers, etc. I don't know if they did or not. One would have to assume the measurement is accurate. I certainly hope so.

    I hope whomever released the tape of JK's car being parked to the media in error, isn't the same person who estimated the POI's height.

    left

  9. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by leftcoast View Post
    Correct. I would love to know that the FBi did an independent test using their own measurements, lasers, etc. I don't know if they did or not. One would have to assume the measurement is accurate. I certainly hope so.

    I hope whomever released the tape of JK's car being parked to the media in error, isn't the same person who estimated the POI's height.

    left
    LOL I totally agree! Altho...wouldn't you find it odd that a little man could take complete control of Jennifer? She would tower over him and probably even outweigh him! If the man IS 5' 4"...he is very thin in the video putting him probably less than 130 lbs. (AND has HUGE feet!)

    OR we are actually looking at a female and we have been mistaken all these months about it being a male. Next logical question would be: Why would a female be dropping off her car? Was she the perp? Does she have a male partner in this? What possible reason would a female have for abducting Jenn? Does Rob have any past gf's who would be suspect?

    Check this out! I wonder if LE thinks this might be a female, too?
    February 12, 2006
    ORLANDO -- Investigators put out a warning Saturday night to anyone who may have played a part in Jennifer Kesse's disappearance: Speak up now or pay the price later.
    Orlando police investigators also implied for the first time that more than one person may be involved in her disappearance, though they would not confirm or deny it.
    Sgt. Rich Ring said those responsible for Kesse's disappearance are watching the coverage.
    "If this is a situation where there's more than one person involved and you may have got caught up in something that was an accident, something that you didn't want to get caught up in, now is the time to distance yourself from the person that is mainly responsible," he said.
    "Don't wait because the deals won't be there later on in the game," he said.
    http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/new...sse/index.html
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  10. #160
    I don't recall ever hearing that her briefcase was also missing. I wonder why that was never picked up on.


    Her cell phone and credit cards have never been used, her purse and briefcase never found. There was no sign of violence in her condo, no sign of violence in her car, and there were valuables left behind, so robbery was not a motive.



    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...orl-home-promo
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    LOL I totally agree! Altho...wouldn't you find it odd that a little man could take complete control of Jennifer? She would tower over him and probably even outweigh him! If the man IS 5' 4"...he is very thin in the video putting him probably less than 130 lbs. (AND has HUGE feet!)

    OR we are actually looking at a female and we have been mistaken all these months about it being a male. Next logical question would be: Why would a female be dropping off her car? Was she the perp? Does she have a male partner in this? What possible reason would a female have for abducting Jenn? Does Rob have any past gf's who would be suspect?
    Well, I wouldn't rule out anything. JK could have been followed from Ft. Lauderdale after her vacation.

    Remember, the crazy NASA woman. Well, women are capable of violence.

    My personal opinion is that this a man. The shape, the shoulders, but, I would leave open any possibility. When someone has a gun, size doesn't really matter, especially if you are scared for your life.

    Yes, many people have noticed the big feet. A have a friend who is 4 inches shorter than me, and wears shoes that are two sizes larger than me. So, shoe size is not always indicative of height.

    I think the picture of the POI is extremely misleading. With the black and white, it is impossible to tell what type of outfit it is. Heck, it could be sweats, skateboard shoes, who Knows?

    left

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    I don't recall ever hearing that her briefcase was also missing. I wonder why that was never picked up on.


    Her cell phone and credit cards have never been used, her purse and briefcase never found. There was no sign of violence in her condo, no sign of violence in her car, and there were valuables left behind, so robbery was not a motive.



    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...orl-home-promo
    Ya, early on, there was a mention of JK's briefcase missing. Supposedly, her briefcase, her purse, two phones, wallet.

    I don't see how someone can conclude the motive. The motive could have been robbery, and JK fought back. Or burglary, and the perp. didn't think JK was coming home.

    But, obviously, sexual battery is the most likely motive. OR for that matter, if it was a woman, murder.

    I agree, I sure hope LE is asking everyone, men, woman, etc, for alibi's for the time of 10pm -noon on the 24th. And why not take photographs of suspects, especially profiles, and compare with the POI.

    left

  13. #163
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    SS

    Some of what LE releases is meant to "play games" with perp's. It is a cat and mouse game. LE was bluffing, trying to make the POI think that all LE had was that POI photo, and that the POi would say, "ya, it's me, but, I was just walking by" and then LE would show him or her the video, and it's jail time.

    But, this POI is not an idiot, and didn't fall for it. Plus, the release of that video allowed the POI to get rid of evidence, such as the clothes, shoes, hat?, etc. Some perp.'s even change their appearance after crimes.

    I don't think LE has ever thought this case involved multiple perp.'s. IMO, if more than one perp, then why didn't the partner pick up the POI? Why didnt' the POI dump the car farther away, and get picked up by the partner?

    My gut tells me, one perp., probably male, and the motive is jealousy.

    However, only fools rule out other scenario's and put the blinders on.

    left

  14. #164
    I guess what I am getting at is if she normally left it in the car (most people I know do), why would the perp take it? Her purse I can understand, but a briefcase filled probably with just files from work? It would have no value to the perp. Unless there was something IN the files perhaps?
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    I don't recall ever hearing that her briefcase was also missing. I wonder why that was never picked up on.


    Her cell phone and credit cards have never been used, her purse and briefcase never found. There was no sign of violence in her condo, no sign of violence in her car, and there were valuables left behind, so robbery was not a motive.



    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...orl-home-promo
    What valueables were left behind??????????????

    Hmm, that is an interesting statement. Was Jk's briefcase, or purse, or ipod left in the car? What does that mean, "Valueables left behind"

    Good pick up.

    left

  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by leftcoast View Post
    SS

    I don't think LE has ever thought this case involved multiple perp.'s. IMO, if more than one perp, then why didn't the partner pick up the POI? Why didnt' the POI dump the car farther away, and get picked up by the partner?
    We don't know the person didn't get picked up for certain. They could have been picked up right outside the view of the cams. Of course, that would mean the dog wasn't tracking properly.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    I guess what I am getting at is if she normally left it in the car (most people I know do), why would the perp take it? Her purse I can understand, but a briefcase filled probably with just files from work? It would have no value to the perp. Unless there was something IN the files perhaps?
    Correct. I agree. That was one of my arguments regarding the place of the crime. Who is to say that JK didn't leave her briefcase and her ipod in her car. So, all that is missing would be her purse and the two cellphones, which could have been laying next to, or in her purse. Logical.

    Especially since she had to bring her luggage into her condo from her vacation. Maybe she brought her luggage in, went back out late at night to get her briefcase, and was attacked? who knows?

    I keep wondering if LE has video of JK in the car with the Perp. I just get a feeling that we are not seeing all the evidence. And with that seat all the way back, it makes me very suspicious.

    left

  18. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by leftcoast View Post
    What valueables were left behind??????????????

    Hmm, that is an interesting statement. Was Jk's briefcase, or purse, or ipod left in the car? What does that mean, "Valueables left behind"

    Good pick up.

    left
    I assumed the 'valuables' they were talking about were at the apartment. Jewelry, cameras, etc.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    We don't know the person didn't get picked up for certain. They could have been picked up right outside the view of the cams. Of course, that would mean the dog wasn't tracking properly.
    You are right. But, it would mean the dogs weren't tracking properly, and the accomplice picked up the POI down the street. I think this is unlikely. don't you agree?

    PLus, at least 90% of this type of crime are down by individuals, versus partners.

    left

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    I assumed the 'valuables' they were talking about were at the apartment. Jewelry, cameras, etc.
    Good point. But, in making such a statement, isn't LE admitting that the condo could have been the crime scene?

    Who's to say that the POI wasn't planning on returning to Jk's condo to steal her belongings, but, was scared off with all the commotion.

    Some people think that when a person goes missing, and their condo door is locked, that the crime scene happened elsewhere. Not always true. The experienced criminals know how to trip up LE, clean up a crime scene, and leave false clues.

    left

  21. #171
    True on the individual part, but all this time...I was going on the suspect in the pic being a taller male. Now, looking at it from a 5' 4" point of view...I am seriously thinking female. A male could have asked his gf to drop off a car for him. She would have been suspicious about him not following her into the complex to pick her up...so she would have had to know why.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  22. #172
    You know, reading that statement again..it is strange. They aren't really saying WHERE the valuables were left, are they? So yes..they are leaving open that it could have been in the apartment.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    True on the individual part, but all this time...I was going on the suspect in the pic being a taller male. Now, looking at it from a 5' 4" point of view...I am seriously thinking female. A male could have asked his gf to drop off a car for him. She would have been suspicious about him not following her into the complex to pick her up...so she would have had to know why.
    So, you are convinced the height is accurate? I think and hope it is.

    Do you see any features of the POI that look either male or female?

    The problem with the POI picture, is that it is enhanced. IMO, the POI is actually thin, in very good shape. Some of the enhanced photos make the POI look thicker than he or she is.

    You have a point about maybe a woman. Remember, the NASA astronaut wore a disguise, a wig, trenchcoat,etc. Maybe the POI is wearing a disguise, wig, etc.

    It really is a tough case. Which means it was thought out, planned, by an experienced criminal. IMO

    I think someone who knew of JK, got wind of the vacation, thought about it for the entire weekend, and made a plan for the first time she arrived back at her condo. To me, it is just too much of a coincidence that she goes missing her first night back. Somebody had to be watching her.

    left

  24. #174
    Did you see the POI pics where they had them put all together including the pic of the car? This is where they had them in full color.

    I downloaded that so I could study it. I just figured something out while studying it...they have a color pic of Jenn's car parked next to the white truck in color...and it appears to be taken from the left side by the pool far above which means it would be from another camera on the building, right?!
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    Did you see the POI pics where they had them put all together including the pic of the car? This is where they had them in full color.

    I downloaded that so I could study it. I just figured something out while studying it...they have a color pic of Jenn's car parked next to the white truck in color...and it appears to be taken from the left side by the pool far above which means it would be from another camera on the building, right?!

    SS

    I know which picture you are talking about. IS it the one next to the phone pole?

    IF so, I "think" it is from a tv "boom" camera, or a "helicopter" camera. I'll tell ya why. It is in color, the other camera's are not. PLus, no date, time, stamp like the other cameras.

    Also, that camera is pointed right at the spot where Jk's car is parked. IT seeems the other camera's are pointed at the pool, or the pool gates.

    I've seen aerial photos of the property, and I think Drumstick has visited the property, and I don't believe there is a "fixed" camera there.

    However, I am not 100% certain.

    Do you agree?

    left

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