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  1. #1
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    Teen Girls Face Hate Crime Charges Against Gays

    This subject is about NOTHING I have ever discussed from my point-of-view here on websleuths...but here it is...
    I attended the Baptist church while younger, (not with my parents) but quit after awhile...I am still young, only 28, and alot of people I know are gay...not that I am necessarily am on good terms with them....but even though, even when I was a child, gay people never bothered me. My outlook was always "it's not me, and it's not directly affecting me, so why should I care?"
    My view to this day is that it is SO hard to find true love in this world today, so WHENEVER you can find it you better hang on to it no matter what...that's my view, if the Baptists wanna renounce me so what...I don't care, thats my view and I am sticking to it.
    I think what these girls did was wrong...one of them, the one with marijuana possession, and many other charges, WHO IS SHE TO JUDGE ANYONE?????
    WOODSTOCK, Ill. — A pair of 16-year-old girls face hate crime charges after they allegedly handed out anti-gay fliers targeting a classmate at their northern Illinois high school.
    The girls were arrested May 11 after handing out fliers in the parking lot of Crystal Lake South High School that depict a male student kissing another boy and contain hateful language about gays.
    Officials say the fliers targeted a male classmate, who is also a neighbor of the girls. The two girls had apparently been feuding with the boy.
    Earlier today, a judge rejected bond for one of the girls, citing her home environment and already lengthy juvenile record — 13 run-ins with the cops. Instead of home detention, the girl will be held at the Kane County Juvenile Justice Center while the case is pending, according to the Daily Herald.
    Click here to read the Daily Herald story.
    Within the past year, the girl has been charged for marijuana possession, driving without a license, consumption of alcohol by a minor, possession of tobacco by a minor, trespassing and three curfew violations, according to McHenry County court records.
    (more at link) http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,275096,00.html

  2. #2
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    Unhappy Whats up with these girls

    Rights for gays and lesbians are a subject dear to my heart, and which I will fight for till they receive them. I do not understand why they are not allowed to support and care for their families they way you or I do.
    It seems every 20 years or so we (as a society) seem to pick a group to discriminate against. Whether it is blacks, Hispanics, women, interracial marriage, ect. I have such a hard time living in this world of hate I am raising my children in. As a parent I want to raise my children to embrace diversity, not spit on it!! These parents should be ashamed with what their children are doing. And the one girl who has had more then 13 run ins with the law needs to focus on her own life, instead of who the neighbor boy down the street is kissing!!

  3. #3
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    Sounds like at least one of the girls has no supervision at home, 13 run-ins with the police. I would have been on lock down for life after one. They more than likely, the girls ,learned this from their respective parents who more than likely make hateful comments at home that they heard their parents make and so on. It's a cycle that someone would have to satde up to break, and at 16 being able to do what you please why would you do that? Not that I think what they did is OK just that it's learned behavior.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by snvoigt View Post
    Rights for gays and lesbians are a subject dear to my heart, and which I will fight for till they receive them. I do not understand why they are not allowed to support and care for their families they way you or I do.
    It seems every 20 years or so we (as a society) seem to pick a group to discriminate against. Whether it is blacks, Hispanics, women, interracial marriage, ect. I have such a hard time living in this world of hate I am raising my children in. As a parent I want to raise my children to embrace diversity, not spit on it!! These parents should be ashamed with what their children are doing. And the one girl who has had more then 13 run ins with the law needs to focus on her own life, instead of who the neighbor boy down the street is kissing!!

    I couldn't have said it better myself.
    I am so sick of the people of this world hating, degrading, and hurting people who are different than they are.

  5. #5
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    ok here is what i dont get. if 2 girls have face a trial for handing out anti gay pamplets why is there no way to stop that so called church that pickets funerals?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
    Sounds like at least one of the girls has no supervision at home, 13 run-ins with the police. I would have been on lock down for life after one. They more than likely, the girls ,learned this from their respective parents who more than likely make hateful comments at home that they heard their parents make and so on. It's a cycle that someone would have to satde up to break, and at 16 being able to do what you please why would you do that? Not that I think what they did is OK just that it's learned behavior.

    This little girl sounds like serious trouble. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that if it wasn't a "gay" issue, she'd have come up with something else. They need to do something serious with this girl or she'll be getting her GED in a women's prison someday.

  7. #7
    tennessee is offline Blew out my flipflop. Stepped on a pop top . . .
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    Quote Originally Posted by snvoigt View Post
    Rights for gays and lesbians are a subject dear to my heart, and which I will fight for till they receive them. I do not understand why they are not allowed to support and care for their families they way you or I do.
    It seems every 20 years or so we (as a society) seem to pick a group to discriminate against. Whether it is blacks, Hispanics, women, interracial marriage, ect. I have such a hard time living in this world of hate I am raising my children in. As a parent I want to raise my children to embrace diversity, not spit on it!! These parents should be ashamed with what their children are doing. And the one girl who has had more then 13 run ins with the law needs to focus on her own life, instead of who the neighbor boy down the street is kissing!!


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  8. #8
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    There are a number of new posters in this thread and I want to say welcome, one and all!

    I have defended the concept of hate crimes here in the past, but this isn't my favorite way of using that sort of law.

    (For new posters, I am gay and I think what the girls did is horrible. I'm just concerned that criminalizing flyers will trivialize the issue.)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    There are a number of new posters in this thread and I want to say welcome, one and all!

    I have defended the concept of hate crimes here in the past, but this isn't my favorite way of using that sort of law.

    (For new posters, I am gay and I think what the girls did is horrible. I'm just concerned that criminalizing flyers will trivialize the issue.)
    Intentional Infliction of Emotional Damage. THAT is what they should criminalize. Oh wait - they did. I doubt seriously the girls are even anti gay, they just went for the jugular since this boy and they were in an arguement. Some people go way over the top to hurt someone.
    FUN... is a renewable resource!

  10. #10
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    Oh, I think they probably ARE homophobic (at least to the extent of their understanding). It's a rather popular bias.

    But distributing a flier is a felony? Or was "resisting arrest" the felony? I'm not sure from the article.

    Hate speech in connection with violence or threats of violence is one thing. But if we're going to make everyone who is ignorant a criminal, we're going to have to build a lot more jails.

    Maybe I'm not understanding what the fliers said...


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Oh, I think they probably ARE homophobic (at least to the extent of their understanding). It's a rather popular bias.

    But distributing a flier is a felony? Or was "resisting arrest" the felony? I'm not sure from the article.

    Hate speech in connection with violence or threats of violence is one thing. But if we're going to make everyone who is ignorant a criminal, we're going to have to build a lot more jails.

    Maybe I'm not understanding what the fliers said...
    It was a direct attack on this boy due to other issues they had with him though - that's what makes me think they were using OTHER people's ideas of hate against him to embarass him. If the original arguement was about him being gay, I'd say the girls were beyond "bad seeds" but if they used his being gay against him just because they were trying to get even for something, it might not be that they are against gays so much as just the kind of person to take your weakness (any weakness) and stomp on it.

    Let's say he wasn't gay, but he was overweight, or short, or flunking out of school. The signs could have easily said "So and So is a retard" and hurt him, too.

    They might not have been thinking things through.

    Or they could be pigs who hate gay people - but it doesn't seem like it's the big thing to hate people for that now days. Perhaps it's because of the "gay-like" behavior of Emo bands and stuff, but it sure seems like bisexuality and being gay or lesbian is the new "thing" sort of like interracial dating was several years ago.

    As for it being a popular bias- speedos were once popular, too. Eventually, most people realized that speedos were incredibly tacky and didn't make you look good. Eventually, people will realize that being hateful is incredibly tacky and doesn't make you look good, either.
    FUN... is a renewable resource!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlitchWizard View Post
    It was a direct attack on this boy due to other issues they had with him though - that's what makes me think they were using OTHER people's ideas of hate against him to embarass him. If the original arguement was about him being gay, I'd say the girls were beyond "bad seeds" but if they used his being gay against him just because they were trying to get even for something, it might not be that they are against gays so much as just the kind of person to take your weakness (any weakness) and stomp on it.

    Let's say he wasn't gay, but he was overweight, or short, or flunking out of school. The signs could have easily said "So and So is a retard" and hurt him, too.

    They might not have been thinking things through.

    Or they could be pigs who hate gay people - but it doesn't seem like it's the big thing to hate people for that now days. Perhaps it's because of the "gay-like" behavior of Emo bands and stuff, but it sure seems like bisexuality and being gay or lesbian is the new "thing" sort of like interracial dating was several years ago.

    As for it being a popular bias- speedos were once popular, too. Eventually, most people realized that speedos were incredibly tacky and didn't make you look good. Eventually, people will realize that being hateful is incredibly tacky and doesn't make you look good, either.
    I think with young to mid-teens, homophobia is still pretty popular, though it seems you are right that college-age kids are more relaxed on the subject. But I was only speaking in general.

    If your point was that the anti-gay stuff was chosen for convenience to get back at a boy they had a grudge with, I imagine that is true, too.

  13. #13
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    That's the impression I got from the article - they were essentially bullying this boy.

    High school students enjoy VERY limited free speech rights in school. They are not protected when the speech is disruptive to the learning environment. Hazelwood is the most recent 7th Circuit case on point.

    I'm not sure I agree with the hate crime charge here, only b/c the issue could have as easily been fatness, mental capacity, and so on - so far unprotected classes. And it seems to be overkill for what is needed for these girls. (Nova - I'm interested in your evaluation of the charge here...)

    The flyer itself and the "anti-gay" message seemed to be side issues, at least from my read of the article.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlitchWizard View Post
    It was a direct attack on this boy due to other issues they had with him though - that's what makes me think they were using OTHER people's ideas of hate against him to embarass him. If the original arguement was about him being gay, I'd say the girls were beyond "bad seeds" but if they used his being gay against him just because they were trying to get even for something, it might not be that they are against gays so much as just the kind of person to take your weakness (any weakness) and stomp on it.

    Let's say he wasn't gay, but he was overweight, or short, or flunking out of school. The signs could have easily said "So and So is a retard" and hurt him, too.

    They might not have been thinking things through.
    I think you expressed it well - a hate crime, IMHO, should be charged when it is the "class" of the person that is the target, but not the person themselves.

    Here, the boy seemed to be the target, and not whether or not he was gay. The photo of him kissing another boy was a means to an end - to embarrass him and use other's biases against him.

    While I think the girls are homophobic, I think that issue was secondary to them. First in importance was singling out this particular boy.

  15. #15
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    I'm not sure I understand this. Don't they have the right to free speech and handing out whatever literature they choose? The one girl sounds seriously troubled but I don't see the anti-gay message as being illegal.

    Where's the ACLU when you need them?? (I can't believe I just said that ).

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