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  1. #1
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    What If 911 Wasn't Called?

    Many of us RDIs believe JonBenet's parents reported her kidnapping to 911 because they ran out of time to dispose of her body somewhere outside their home.
    What if the Ramsey's decided not to notify officals with a 911 call that morning? Could they have pulled off getting rid of the body and therefore make a kidnapping and the ransom letter more believable?
    They could contact the rest of the family and the pilot to cancel the trip because Jon Benet was ill.
    Then there would be the problem of what to do with Burke. Could his parents have told him JonBenet was sick and the trip had been cancelled? Her bedroom door could have been closed with her tucked into bed.
    Then further on in the day, perhaps John would pretend he was taking a bundle of clothing or drapes or something bulky to the dry cleaners. (inside would be Jon Benet's body which he would place in a rural lonely area and actually take the items to the dry cleaners.)
    And then the next morning, Dec. 27, the 911 call would be placed and the entire charade would begin.
    Do you think the criminal masterminds, Patsy and John could have pulled this off? And wouldn't the ransom letter and a body not found in the house could have made this a more believable kidnapping? And the suspicion would not have been as stong that RDI.
    OK, whatever. It looks like the plan they did use worked. Neither was ever charged.
    Just wondered how the rest of you felt about the idea of John and Patsy carrying this even further.
    Care to comment?
    The Hokey Pokey Clinic - A good place to turn yourself around:

  2. #2
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    I suppose it COULD have been done any number of ways. But it would have taken more time to plan it out than they actually had. They were in a panic after all, because however way it really happened, and however they planned to get away with it, it was still horrifying to them. I think they just ran out of time and decided to go with hiding the body. They had an early fllght. I think cancelling the trip and using illness on the part of JBR would have been cumbersome, as they did have the Disney Cruise following as well. I think it was easier to hide the body, set it up as a kidnapping, and WANT the body to be found. (Because if it wasn't, then they'd HAVE to dispose of a by-then decomposing child and it wouldn't be nearly as easy).
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by azwriter View Post
    Many of us RDIs believe JonBenet's parents reported her kidnapping to 911 because they ran out of time to dispose of her body somewhere outside their home.
    What if the Ramsey's decided not to notify officals with a 911 call that morning? Could they have pulled off getting rid of the body and therefore make a kidnapping and the ransom letter more believable?
    They could contact the rest of the family and the pilot to cancel the trip because Jon Benet was ill.
    Then there would be the problem of what to do with Burke. Could his parents have told him JonBenet was sick and the trip had been cancelled? Her bedroom door could have been closed with her tucked into bed.
    Then further on in the day, perhaps John would pretend he was taking a bundle of clothing or drapes or something bulky to the dry cleaners. (inside would be Jon Benet's body which he would place in a rural lonely area and actually take the items to the dry cleaners.)
    And then the next morning, Dec. 27, the 911 call would be placed and the entire charade would begin.
    Do you think the criminal masterminds, Patsy and John could have pulled this off? And wouldn't the ransom letter and a body not found in the house could have made this a more believable kidnapping? And the suspicion would not have been as stong that RDI.
    OK, whatever. It looks like the plan they did use worked. Neither was ever charged.
    Just wondered how the rest of you felt about the idea of John and Patsy carrying this even further.
    Care to comment?
    I've thought about that,but I think they were in panic mode with a dead body in the house..it couldn't have been easy.No time to get her out of the house(b/f daylight comes)? OK,then *we'll leave ...and JR knew that plane would be ready to go...I think that's why the 911 call came in so late,or rather,more closely to the time the plane would have been ready for take off.
    If they'd been thinking clearly then that ridiculous rambling ransom note wouldn't have been written in the first place.
    edited,I didn't read that well..I see what you're saying...I think they did have,according to the RN,a previous plan to buy them more time..such as with the lines..'we will call you tomorrow'..the note was 'found' the morning of the 26th...that means it refers to the 27th...(as JR himself even mentioned in DOI)...anyway,that gives them all day to come up with a plan on how to get her out of the house...then the line...'you will need to be rested'...means they need to stay at home..in case anyone notices that they didn't leave the house that day.Then the line..'if we monitor you getting the money early'...ok...that gives them an excuse to leave the house early (with her body,as the note said 'you will also be denied her remains for proper buriel'.that says it all to me...).
    Of course no one knows why they changed their minds,I think in the end it was decided to be too risky..tire tracks,shoe prints,plus where would they put her anyway?What if JR got into a car accident on the way and her body was discovered in the car? I think once daylight came ,JR felt the time for that was come and gone,so they panicked and wanted to leave the state.
    Plus Patsy,once calmed down a bit,probably came to mind of a grand funeral for her in her pageant gown and crown,which is just what she wore.And Patsy herself a lot of attention from it all.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by azwriter View Post
    Many of us RDIs believe JonBenet's parents reported her kidnapping to 911 because they ran out of time to dispose of her body somewhere outside their home.
    What if the Ramsey's decided not to notify officals with a 911 call that morning? Could they have pulled off getting rid of the body and therefore make a kidnapping and the ransom letter more believable?
    They could contact the rest of the family and the pilot to cancel the trip because Jon Benet was ill.
    Then there would be the problem of what to do with Burke. Could his parents have told him JonBenet was sick and the trip had been cancelled? Her bedroom door could have been closed with her tucked into bed.
    Then further on in the day, perhaps John would pretend he was taking a bundle of clothing or drapes or something bulky to the dry cleaners. (inside would be Jon Benet's body which he would place in a rural lonely area and actually take the items to the dry cleaners.)
    And then the next morning, Dec. 27, the 911 call would be placed and the entire charade would begin.
    Do you think the criminal masterminds, Patsy and John could have pulled this off? And wouldn't the ransom letter and a body not found in the house could have made this a more believable kidnapping? And the suspicion would not have been as stong that RDI.
    OK, whatever. It looks like the plan they did use worked. Neither was ever charged.
    Just wondered how the rest of you felt about the idea of John and Patsy carrying this even further.
    Care to comment?
    azwriter,

    Burke is aware of what happened prior to JonBenet's death, and most likely aware of some of the events that followed, even if he does not know the full details.

    He can tell us if he sipped tea while JonBenet snacked pineapple, he can tell us who served JonBenet the pineapple, he can tell us where JonBenet went after snacking pineaple, e.g. did she go to bed, did she stay with Patsy, did she stay with John?

    They could have avoided the 911 call by dumping JonBenet's body outdoors somewhere locally, making sure her body was well hidden.

    John could have used his car to effect this, saying he went looking for JonBenet but could not find her, personally this is just as suspicious as discovering her body in the basement, but less incriminating. It would make the intruder abduction scenario much more plausible.


    .

  5. #5
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    I don't think there was ever a plan to remove JonBenet's body from the house. Dumping JonBenet out in the woods where she could have been torn apart by animals and her body frozen? I don't see that.

    I don't think you can use the ransom note to decipher their plans because the ransom note is a work of fiction.

    I think one of the biggest obstacles to understanding this case is the staging, as was intended. A lot of staging is involved and staging isn't real. Yet people use bits and pieces of the staging to intrepret the crime.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert18 View Post
    I don't think there was ever a plan to remove JonBenet's body from the house. Dumping JonBenet out in the woods where she could have been torn apart by animals and her body frozen? I don't see that.

    I don't think you can use the ransom note to decipher their plans because the ransom note is a work of fiction.

    I think one of the biggest obstacles to understanding this case is the staging, as was intended. A lot of staging is involved and staging isn't real. Yet people use bits and pieces of the staging to intrepret the crime.
    ALBERT18, good point about the staging and the fake ransom letter (I prefer to call it a Letter). I am sure law enforcement recognized all the fakery and the staging, but yet the real mystery is why neither or both the parents were ever charged. Unless that third person in the household, who shall remain unnamed, was the real killer and could not be charged because of the state's laws. But then why would LE continue to investigate this crime which takes time and money?
    jmo
    The Hokey Pokey Clinic - A good place to turn yourself around:

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by azwriter View Post
    ...but yet the real mystery is why neither or both the parents were ever charged. Unless that third person in the household, who shall remain unnamed, was the real killer and could not be charged because of the state's laws. But then why would LE continue to investigate this crime which takes time and money?
    jmo
    I no longer think incompetence.

    It must involve a twisted set of values and a form of corruption that doesn't involve money. Because of their status the Ramsey's were owed this favor. What was done by the authorities in this case wasn't viewed as being wrong because they were just doing the Ramsey's a favor and it is their right to grant these kind of favors.

    I think this kind of crap has been going on forever but the internet and non-network television makes it more difficult for it to be kept quiet. I think the Natalie Holloway case is basically the same.

  8. #8
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    JB body wasn't just staged,it was staged and then *restaged,for a reason..plans changed.A fake sexual assault was implemented,that was abandoned and she was wiped down,redressed and covered.Why else would that be? Why the change,if there was no change in plans and an original plan was already in place and adhered to?
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    azwriter,

    Burke is aware of what happened prior to JonBenet's death, and most likely aware of some of the events that followed, even if he does not know the full details.

    He can tell us if he sipped tea while JonBenet snacked pineapple, he can tell us who served JonBenet the pineapple, he can tell us where JonBenet went after snacking pineaple, e.g. did she go to bed, did she stay with Patsy, did she stay with John?

    They could have avoided the 911 call by dumping JonBenet's body outdoors somewhere locally, making sure her body was well hidden.

    John could have used his car to effect this, saying he went looking for JonBenet but could not find her, personally this is just as suspicious as discovering her body in the basement, but less incriminating. It would make the intruder abduction scenario much more plausible.


    .
    This would have to imply that JR knew his daughter was dead while it was still dark enough to drive away unnoticed. (which of course, is true anyway). They CLAIM that PR found the note around 5:30 am. Unless you had an idea who had your child (where they lived, what kind of car they had, etc.) you wouldn't go driving around to find her, like you would a lost dog. It's not like she just wandered off. It would raise too many questions, least of all why you'd leave the house if you were "expecting kidpappers to call". The only way that would have made sense is if they claimed to have discovered her missing from the house and THEN found the note that said she'd been kidnapped.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    This would have to imply that JR knew his daughter was dead while it was still dark enough to drive away unnoticed. (which of course, is true anyway). They CLAIM that PR found the note around 5:30 am. Unless you had an idea who had your child (where they lived, what kind of car they had, etc.) you wouldn't go driving around to find her, like you would a lost dog. It's not like she just wandered off. It would raise too many questions, least of all why you'd leave the house if you were "expecting kidpappers to call". The only way that would have made sense is if they claimed to have discovered her missing from the house and THEN found the note that said she'd been kidnapped.
    DeeDee249,

    The 911 did not need to made when it was, and
    The only way that would have made sense is if they claimed to have discovered her missing from the house and THEN found the note that said she'd been kidnapped.
    Whichever method works, but who would not believe Patsy rising , showering, makeup, dressing etc, looking in on JonBenet to discover her missing, alerts John, who dresses fast, they discover the note, and John decides to go looking for JonBenet, but returns 5 minutes later with no JonBenet, at some point they decide to dial 911. I think it is a much better plan that leaving JonBenet in the basement, both scenarios point the finger at the parents, but the outdoor version, less so, since the domestic link is far more difficult to demonstrate?

    .


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    DeeDee249,

    The 911 did not need to made when it was, and

    Whichever method works, but who would not believe Patsy rising , showering, makeup, dressing etc, looking in on JonBenet to discover her missing, alerts John, who dresses fast, they discover the note, and John decides to go looking for JonBenet, but returns 5 minutes later with no JonBenet, at some point they decide to dial 911. I think it is a much better plan that leaving JonBenet in the basement, both scenarios point the finger at the parents, but the outdoor version, less so, since the domestic link is far more difficult to demonstrate?

    .
    it is,but for whatever reason,they didn't go through with it.they weren't thinking logically anyway,had they been then that ridiculous RN wouldn't have been written.remember that,not having lived in Boulder previously,they may not have known any place where she could be left inconspicously,without having to worry about tire tracks and foot prints being left.Plus,what if he'd been in an accident w her body in the car?I think they staged/(restaged) it as best they thought they could(cleaning up the prior staged sexual assault),pointed the finger at JM in the note,and called 911 in an attempt to hopefully still be able to get on the plane that was set to go to MI after the body was found.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  12. #12
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    If PR discovered her daughter missing from her room/bed, wouldn't you do a thorough search of the HOUSE first before getting in your car to search a darkened neighborhood? Or you'd call her friends to see if she had somehow wandered over there. That wood latch on the wineceller door is like a red flag to me, because it is so obvious that a latch like that can't be locked by mistake or from the inside. Any person, dead or alive, in that room was left there by someone else. Only someone OUTSIDE that room could lock that latch, just like the chair placed against the train room door. No one could pull a chair close to a door that opened OUT after they were already in the room, no matter how "clever" JR said the "kidnappers" were.
    The 911 call had to be made as early, because of the early scheduled flight.
    But TOO early (as in the middle of the night), and it would have been too close to the time they were KNOWN to have left the White's, and also making several more stops. It would make it too hard to belive they were sound asleep long enough not to have heard that scream.
    When you put it all together- there just wasn't enough hours to arrive home, put the kids to bed, stay up getting ready for the trip (which PR says she did do), feed her pineapple (or have her sneak downstairs after her parents were asleep to eat it), sexually abuse her, make and apply the garrotte, bash her head, clean up any blood (I am sure there was SOME) think of what to do next, write the note, get the blanket, etc. It's all too much in too short a time. And poice arrive quickly after a 911 call. It all had to be done before they arrived.
    Remember that BR (much later) admitted to being awake and hearing voices and scurrying about (NOT screaming, as would be the case if their parents had found their child's body). And NO parent of a truly missing child would let their other kids sleep - you'd want to ask if they heard/saw anything.
    That 9:30- 10pm time frame for the Rs arriving home that night- That's just their say-so, right? I don't recall ever seeing where the friends they visited after leaving the White's were asked if they could give a time that they remembered the R's dropping off their gifts.
    I just don't see another time when that call could have been made.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    If PR discovered her daughter missing from her room/bed, wouldn't you do a thorough search of the HOUSE first before getting in your car to search a darkened neighborhood? Or you'd call her friends to see if she had somehow wandered over there. That wood latch on the wineceller door is like a red flag to me, because it is so obvious that a latch like that can't be locked by mistake or from the inside. Any person, dead or alive, in that room was left there by someone else. Only someone OUTSIDE that room could lock that latch, just like the chair placed against the train room door. No one could pull a chair close to a door that opened OUT after they were already in the room, no matter how "clever" JR said the "kidnappers" were.
    The 911 call had to be made as early, because of the early scheduled flight.
    But TOO early (as in the middle of the night), and it would have been too close to the time they were KNOWN to have left the White's, and also making several more stops. It would make it too hard to belive they were sound asleep long enough not to have heard that scream.
    When you put it all together- there just wasn't enough hours to arrive home, put the kids to bed, stay up getting ready for the trip (which PR says she did do), feed her pineapple (or have her sneak downstairs after her parents were asleep to eat it), sexually abuse her, make and apply the garrotte, bash her head, clean up any blood (I am sure there was SOME) think of what to do next, write the note, get the blanket, etc. It's all too much in too short a time. And poice arrive quickly after a 911 call. It all had to be done before they arrived.
    Remember that BR (much later) admitted to being awake and hearing voices and scurrying about (NOT screaming, as would be the case if their parents had found their child's body). And NO parent of a truly missing child would let their other kids sleep - you'd want to ask if they heard/saw anything.
    That 9:30- 10pm time frame for the Rs arriving home that night- That's just their say-so, right? I don't recall ever seeing where the friends they visited after leaving the White's were asked if they could give a time that they remembered the R's dropping off their gifts.
    I just don't see another time when that call could have been made.
    DeeDee249,
    The 911 call had to be made as early, because of the early scheduled flight.
    Lets say anytime after 5.00am, but once JonBenet is discovered missing, according to the Ramsey version, they can phone anytime they like after say 5:30am, because they are no longer flying that schedule is out the window, so if they phoned at 6:15am thats not critical, since John can say I was out looking for JonBenet in my car?

    The pineapple residue in JonBenet's stomach estimates her time of death somewhere between 11pm and 2am, that leaves approx 4 hours to work out a plan and setup the staging.

    .

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    If PR discovered her daughter missing from her room/bed, wouldn't you do a thorough search of the HOUSE first before getting in your car to search a darkened neighborhood? Or you'd call her friends to see if she had somehow wandered over there. That wood latch on the wineceller door is like a red flag to me, because it is so obvious that a latch like that can't be locked by mistake or from the inside. Any person, dead or alive, in that room was left there by someone else. Only someone OUTSIDE that room could lock that latch, just like the chair placed against the train room door. No one could pull a chair close to a door that opened OUT after they were already in the room, no matter how "clever" JR said the "kidnappers" were.
    The 911 call had to be made as early, because of the early scheduled flight.
    But TOO early (as in the middle of the night), and it would have been too close to the time they were KNOWN to have left the White's, and also making several more stops. It would make it too hard to belive they were sound asleep long enough not to have heard that scream.
    When you put it all together- there just wasn't enough hours to arrive home, put the kids to bed, stay up getting ready for the trip (which PR says she did do), feed her pineapple (or have her sneak downstairs after her parents were asleep to eat it), sexually abuse her, make and apply the garrotte, bash her head, clean up any blood (I am sure there was SOME) think of what to do next, write the note, get the blanket, etc. It's all too much in too short a time. And poice arrive quickly after a 911 call. It all had to be done before they arrived.
    Remember that BR (much later) admitted to being awake and hearing voices and scurrying about (NOT screaming, as would be the case if their parents had found their child's body). And NO parent of a truly missing child would let their other kids sleep - you'd want to ask if they heard/saw anything.
    That 9:30- 10pm time frame for the Rs arriving home that night- That's just their say-so, right? I don't recall ever seeing where the friends they visited after leaving the White's were asked if they could give a time that they remembered the R's dropping off their gifts.
    I just don't see another time when that call could have been made.
    I think FW said they left about 8:30,while the R's said it was an hour later than that.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    DeeDee249,

    Lets say anytime after 5.00am, but once JonBenet is discovered missing, according to the Ramsey version, they can phone anytime they like after say 5:30am, because they are no longer flying that schedule is out the window, so if they phoned at 6:15am thats not critical, since John can say I was out looking for JonBenet in my car?

    The pineapple residue in JonBenet's stomach estimates her time of death somewhere between 11pm and 2am, that leaves approx 4 hours to work out a plan and setup the staging.

    .
    I think they set the RN up to buy them some time,if they decided to do so.The 'we will call you tomorrow',and they find it the morning of the 26th..gives them a full day,had they decided to do it that way.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

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