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  1. #1
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    New member, and a theory

    Hi, just finished watching PMPT, and was prompted to come read the forum.

    I noticed that only a few people over the years (2003 until present) specifically postulated that this crime was generational:

    Quote Originally Posted by K777angel
    There are some deep, dark secrets in that family. It is probably "generational" as it usually is. (10/27/03)
    What I'm wondering is why nobody seemed to take this to the logical conclusion?

    People have said that they characterized one of the potential actors in this case as an 'Intrusional Narcissist'

    We know that sometimes the female/mother in an abuse scenario will enable, cover up, deny or collude with the father/abuser.

    We also know that the next generation will act out, and will sometimes cover up, deny or collude with the acts.

    Sometimes a few members of the family (here, one of the daughters) will be spared the abuse. They may be more likely or equally likely to cover up, deny or collude with the abuser. Actually, due to embarrassment and being in denial, even the formerly abused children will deny or cover up.

    The characteristic of the intrusive narcissistic wife/mother will often be a weak husband/father. This person might not feel satisfied in a relationship with an adult.

    To maintain the balance in the relationship the wife/mother will often cover up the deeds of the husband/father, sometimes to the point of blaming the victim.

    Anyone with me?

    To me, the answer to this case is like a large elephant in the room. Everyone talks about it, walks around it, but due, perhaps, to some aspect of the case, omits the scenario from their theory.

    One thing that seems to make the case more complex is that the abuser and the killer may have been different people but intimately related.

    So, in their characterizations, the 'experts' try to profile and mix the two making the resultant 'killer/abuser' seem to be some kind of monster, where as individually they may just have been an abuser/enabler pair.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Pain View Post
    Hi, just finished watching PMPT, and was prompted to come read the forum.

    I noticed that only a few people over the years (2003 until present) specifically postulated that this crime was generational:



    What I'm wondering is why nobody seemed to take this to the logical conclusion?

    People have said that they characterized one of the potential actors in this case as an 'Intrusional Narcissist'

    We know that sometimes the female/mother in an abuse scenario will enable, cover up, deny or collude with the father/abuser.

    We also know that the next generation will act out, and will sometimes cover up, deny or collude with the acts.

    Sometimes a few members of the family (here, one of the daughters) will be spared the abuse. They may be more likely or equally likely to cover up, deny or collude with the abuser. Actually, due to embarrassment and being in denial, even the formerly abused children will deny or cover up.

    The characteristic of the intrusive narcissistic wife/mother will often be a weak husband/father. This person might not feel satisfied in a relationship with an adult.

    To maintain the balance in the relationship the wife/mother will often cover up the deeds of the husband/father, sometimes to the point of blaming the victim.

    Anyone with me?

    To me, the answer to this case is like a large elephant in the room. Everyone talks about it, walks around it, but due, perhaps, to some aspect of the case, omits the scenario from their theory.

    One thing that seems to make the case more complex is that the abuser and the killer may have been different people but intimately related.

    So, in their characterizations, the 'experts' try to profile and mix the two making the resultant 'killer/abuser' seem to be some kind of monster, where as individually they may just have been an abuser/enabler pair.
    Max_Pain,

    I think most of the theories and their variations have been aired, the basic ones are:

    JDI: John Did It.
    PDI: Patsy Did It It.
    BDI: Burke Did It.
    IDI: Intruder Did It.

    Since your theory encompasses the family, then its a collective RDI, in the sense that you suggest its origins may lie in what I usually eupemestically describe as the Dysfunctional Ramsey Lifestyle.

    I reckon a lot of people will agree with your psychological profile.


    .

  3. #3
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    It is unfortunately all too common that mothers deal with the sexual abuse of their daughters by ignoring,denying,blaming the child or all of the above. It's seen time and again. It is also common for abused kids to grow up to abuse their own. Sometimes abused kids abuse a sibling or playmate. It's like a pebble in a pond- the horror of that abuse doesn't stop when the abuser stops the abuse.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    Max_Pain,

    I think most of the theories and their variations have been aired, the basic ones are:

    JDI: John Did It.
    PDI: Patsy Did It It.
    BDI: Burke Did It.
    IDI: Intruder Did It.

    Since your theory encompasses the family, then its a collective RDI, in the sense that you suggest its origins may lie in what I usually eupemestically describe as the Dysfunctional Ramsey Lifestyle.

    I reckon a lot of people will agree with your psychological profile.


    .
    I don't think any of those you mentioned did it, though they surely helped cover it up.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    It is unfortunately all too common that mothers deal with the sexual abuse of their daughters by ignoring,denying,blaming the child or all of the above. It's seen time and again. It is also common for abused kids to grow up to abuse their own. Sometimes abused kids abuse a sibling or playmate. It's like a pebble in a pond- the horror of that abuse doesn't stop when the abuser stops the abuse.
    Yes, but I think people may be looking in the wrong place; or they're just not saying openly. I can't tell which.

  6. #6
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    Where do you think the guilt lies? Another family member? A friend or business associate? Or a stranger?
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    Where do you think the guilt lies? Another family member? A friend or business associate? Or a stranger?
    A stranger? Generational. That means within the family. So, no, not a stranger or a friend.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Pain View Post
    I don't think any of those you mentioned did it, though they surely helped cover it up.
    Max_Pain,

    Well two of the other main candidates were supposedly not present on the night of JonBenet's death?

    Can you demonstrate that your suspect had the opportunity and a motive to kill JonBenet?


    .

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    Max_Pain,

    Well two of the other main candidates were supposedly not present on the night of JonBenet's death?

    Can you demonstrate that your suspect had the opportunity and a motive to kill JonBenet?


    .
    Yet the authorities did journey and take a DNA sample...allegedly.

    I believe I heard a quote from PR, early on:

    "There were six of us in the house that night"

    Motive? Sure. Generational child abuse.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Pain View Post
    Yet the authorities did journey and take a DNA sample...allegedly.

    I believe I heard a quote from PR, early on:

    "There were six of us in the house that night"

    Motive? Sure. Generational child abuse.
    Max_Pain

    Sure I agree that is a tenable motive, but do you have evidence that places your suspect in or near the vicinity of the Ramsey house on the night of JonBenet's death?

    Bear in mind J. M. Karr was released because they could not place him in Boulder on the night JonBenet was killed.



    .


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    Max_Pain

    Sure I agree that is a tenable motive, but do you have evidence that places your suspect in or near the vicinity of the Ramsey house on the night of JonBenet's death?

    Bear in mind J. M. Karr was released because they could not place him in Boulder on the night JonBenet was killed.



    .
    Could you please provide the source of that quote from Patsy regards six in the house that night.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    Max_Pain

    Sure I agree that is a tenable motive, but do you have evidence that places your suspect in or near the vicinity of the Ramsey house on the night of JonBenet's death?

    Bear in mind J. M. Karr was released because they could not place him in Boulder on the night JonBenet was killed.



    .
    Whoa, I didn't say I had proof.

    My main point is that no one is discussing this particular theory.

    But, first, we are not 'insiders' as to this case. We do not have access to the evidence.

    Suffice it to say the BPD thought it important enough to travel to obtain evidence from these people. Why do that if they had air-tight alibis for the night(s) in question?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by coloradokares View Post
    Could you please provide the source of that quote from Patsy regards six in the house that night.
    I may have been able to pull something up back in 1996-7, but I've been away from the case for 10 years.

    Again, whoa. I did not say it was a quote. I said I believe I heard someone report, or PR say that there were 'six of us in the house that night'. This is as close as I can get to a quote.

    I did google that and did not find it but the phrase rings in my memory after all this time.

    Again, I'm not alleging I know the specifics, just that no one is discussing this theory of generational abuse and just jumps all around it, ignoring a possible suspect, or pair of suspects.

    Just because someone seemed 'cleared' on the surface does not keep people from discussing this chain of generational abuse.

    Why has it not been discussed?

    It seems to me that they are completely missing the dynamics of generational abuse.

    I also believe a creditable theory can be constructed which answers some of the questions that still seem puzzling in the case if you use this model of abuse.

    Does that make sense?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Pain View Post
    Whoa, I didn't say I had proof.

    My main point is that no one is discussing this particular theory.

    But, first, we are not 'insiders' as to this case. We do not have access to the evidence.

    Suffice it to say the BPD thought it important enough to travel to obtain evidence from these people. Why do that if they had air-tight alibis for the night(s) in question?
    Max_Pain,

    The theory of generational abuse has been discussed before, it is one of my alternate theories.

    The use of pageants and generational film stars as feminine models for JonBenet to copy and mimic via videotape and movies, along with the role played by extended family members leading up to and beyond JonBenet's death, has been debated before.

    Feel free to expand upon your theory, I'm sure many new and long standing members would be interested.


    .

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    Max_Pain,

    The theory of generational abuse has been discussed before, it is one of my alternate theories.

    The use of pageants and generational film stars as feminine models for JonBenet to copy and mimic via videotape and movies, along with the role played by extended family members leading up to and beyond JonBenet's death, has been debated before.

    Feel free to expand upon your theory, I'm sure many new and long standing members would be interested.


    .
    OK, but I'm still not sure you know what I mean.

    But since you mentioned it - what is your alternate theory of generational abuse as it relates to this case? I searched the forum and only found one or two threads that even mention this.

    Thanks.

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