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Thread: FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #5

  1. #251
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    Crypto

    If you know, why do most dogs lose the scent?

    Is it because of watering of grass, rain, multiple scents of the same person, multiple scents involving several different people?

    How accurate do you think that dog was in following the pOI's scent?

    Any chance that POI was sniffing Jk's scent? or are we fairly certain that the dog obtained the scent of the last person who sat in JK's driver's seat?

    If the POI lives or works at Mosaic, is it possible to get the dog to find a scent of the pOI somewhere else on the property?

    Have you seen the new technology where scents from a car seat are saved in a vacuum type of system, and used in the future to match suspects with a saved scent?

    What percentage would you give the dogs, related to their accuracy?

    thanks in advance.

    IF you don't have all the answers, I understand

    left

  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftcoast View Post
    Crypto

    If you know, why do most dogs lose the scent?

    Is it because of watering of grass, rain, multiple scents of the same person, multiple scents involving several different people?

    How accurate do you think that dog was in following the pOI's scent?

    Any chance that POI was sniffing Jk's scent? or are we fairly certain that the dog obtained the scent of the last person who sat in JK's driver's seat?

    If the POI lives or works at Mosaic, is it possible to get the dog to find a scent of the pOI somewhere else on the property?

    Have you seen the new technology where scents from a car seat are saved in a vacuum type of system, and used in the future to match suspects with a saved scent?

    What percentage would you give the dogs, related to their accuracy?

    thanks in advance.

    IF you don't have all the answers, I understand

    left
    Wow. When you ask ‘em, you do it all the way.

    Rain or cross contamination of the original scent item used to cue the dog is what I’ve been told are the most common reasons to lose a trail. That’s why your second question is so interesting. My guess is that they used the seat cover as the tracking scent, so JK’s scent may have been mixed in. Since Bo immediately took off from the car at the place it was parked, and JK couldn’t have made that trail, it must be the POI’s, unless the guy is super smart and, for example, puts on one of her socks to confuse things. Sounds like Bo’s pretty accurate. Tracking by trained and proven dogs actually has legal standing as evidence, and from the looks of the tracking, Bo is well trained. Some were describing him as using “improper” sniffing techniques; I’ll have to ask my guys about that one.

    Your question about Bo and finding further scent at Mosaic is one that has interested me from the start. I think what Bo did at Mosaic is being kept under wraps, because the report only goes so far as to say Bo stopped at the stairwell. They don’t seem to say in any report what he did after. Did he go up the steps to the door? Was he allowed in the rest of the complex, or specific rooms? Good questions presently without answers.

    Accuracy varies from dog to dog, but with a good set of conditions, accuracy can be above 85%, i.e. the trail that the dog is following is the trail of the cue scent.

    Yes I have heard of scent preservation. I’ll have to ask how long a scent will “keep” under vacuum. Hope this helps.

    Crypto6

  3. #253
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    Crypto

    Thank you very much for the answers. Thanks for taking the time.

    I'm not a dog expert, but, I basically had the same understanding as what you explained. It makes a lot of sense.

    I would love to know if Bo found the scent anywhere else on the grounds. IT may tell us if the POI was a "visitor", or a "regular" at Mosaic.

    I saw the "scent vacuums" on America's Most Wanted and shared it with the forum. Most people thought it is "voodoo", but it made a lot of sense to me.

    According to AMW, the scent was stored in with the evidence of a case from a bank robbery, and the scent was stored successfully for a couple of years.

    One of my thoughts was that if the POI's scent was "preserved", that maybe some day the scent could be retreived and used to further implicate a suspect.

    In the AMW case, LE was able to confirm two years later, that the scent "preserved", was the same scent of a bank robber who was killed in a shootout.

    Thanks for all the expertise.

    left

  4. #254
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    Hi crypto6
    I once heard the term ... scent pool ... described as a place of conflict.
    Could you elaborate.

  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by shwa View Post
    Hi crypto6
    I once heard the term ... scent pool ... described as a place of conflict.
    Could you elaborate.
    I'll ask the trainers/handlers.
    Thanks for enquiring; I'll learn something new....

    Crypto6

  6. #256
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    for the record:

    I went back and re-read the family newsletters to confirm an earlier post of mine related to whether or not the management of Mosaic entered JK's condo on the 24th to check on her well-being.

    I did find that newsletter, dated November 21, 2006, and did confirm that the Mosaic management did in fact enter Jk's condo during the wellness call from Drew and Joyce Kesse.

    Since it was such an important issue, I wanted to make certain my statement was correct. The newsletter also mentions that the Mosaic management found "nothing amiss" in Jk's condo, and then drove the grounds of Mosaic looking for JK's car without success. In addition, Jk's condo door was locked when the management team arrived at her condo.

    AFter this call, the Kesse's started phoning friends, Rob, hospitals, and finally alerted the police.

    I hope this settles any questions.

    left

  7. #257
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    TY LEFT DO you happen to know what time they went into Jenn's apt. and who went in?



    this article in Orlando was interesting today. They are finally getting some help with the rising crime and gang actvity.
    FBI, ATF To Help Orlando Confront Violence
    http://www.wftv.com/news/13427839/detail.html

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beyond Belief View Post
    TY LEFT DO you happen to know what time they went into Jenn's apt. and who went in?

    The newsletter doesnt' say the exact time, or who went in. I'm assuming, just assuming, it was about 11:15-11:30. It sure would be nice to know exactly what time. It doesn't give names, but, if I recall from other articles, there were two people who went to JK's condo.

    http://jenniferkesse.com/family.htm This is the link on the Jk website, just scroll down to the November 21, 2006 newsletter, if you want to read the article.

    this article in Orlando was interesting today. They are finally getting some help with the rising crime and gang actvity.
    FBI, ATF To Help Orlando Confront Violence
    http://www.wftv.com/news/13427839/detail.html
    /////

  9. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftcoast View Post
    The POI

    You know, we can all agree to disagree about how the POI is dressed.

    In my mind, it really doesnt' matter much if he is a chef, bicyclist, sailor, etc. We are all basically making "educated guesses".

    However, when it comes to the height of the POI, that is a very, very, important issue.

    If the majority of the board is correct, and the POI is 4-8 inches taller than the LE estimate, it could turn a "cold" investigation hot quickly.

    Time for LE to put this issue to rest. Send out a team, make a second, third, fourth, measurement, and let the citizens of Orlando know you have the right height.

    While you are there. Do some re-enactments, so you know which colors show up light, and which are dark.

    I just can't believe that nobody in LE has thought of the idea of having other "models" walk in front of that camera. It seems so elementary. I suggested it over a year ago, and still nothing to our knowledge.

    Get out there, spend a day doing experiments, and see if the original estimate is correct. Stop chasing 5"4 illegal aliens who in my opinion are most likely not the POI.

    I just don't get it, the height is the single biggest clue. Heck, it's the only clue, other than evidence in that car.

    This case is cold for a reason. One of LE's assumptions is incorrect, I think it is the height, I also think the POI is wearing something on his head, and doesn't have black hair.

    Time to listen to the majority. Let's settle this height thing once and for all. Show me the downside of checking an estimate.

    left
    leftcoast, I was under the impression LE did have members of their team walk past the camera, for the height and also the color of the poi's shirt. I don't remember where the exact article is now, but there was mention of this, plus the FBI was suppose to have been working of the pictures of the poi.
    --------------

    Crime scene technicians have been working to calculate his height and other information about him. Tuesday, a cadaver dog searched the rooms at an abandoned Orlando resort but found nothing.

    http://www.wftv.com/news/6839223/detail.html

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftcoast View Post
    don't have an IPOD, but I believe they vary in size depending on the model.

    I googled IPOD, and it lists one of the IPOD's as 4.7 X 6.8 X 6. Much larger than fits in a pocket.

    I don't know much about IPOD's, but do know there are various models. Some hold just music, other's pictures.

    I wonder how big JK's IPOD is, what color, etc.

    It sure does fit the size.

    I'll try and find BB's darkened Photo

    If you go to this link, just study the right hand, it is clenched, as if, something is in it, trust me. http://jenniferkesse.com/person/surv3.bmp

    darkened photo http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...sedarkened.jpg

    left
    For some reason I am able to see more in these shots than before. I do have a different computer, so maybe that is it.

    In poi's left hand/arm, I see a large object, which appears to be a large envelope. I really do see the outline of something large.

    In poi's right side I see poi's hand/arm holding onto something rather long. I see poi is clenching or holding something, then look beyond the slat of the fence, there seems to be something the poi is carrying which is showing there beyond the slat.

    Pertaining to the envelope idea, many at the time the pics were first studied, and before the release of the new info, some theorized, the poi may have been a messenger.

    Does anyone know if Jennifer had a tote bag or something similar missing from her car? I doubt LE ever released anything like this tho. Well what I see in the poi's right hand/arm looks to be bulky.

    Reading back, I saw where there were some thoughts about Jenn having a FedEx or similar mailing envelope in her condo.

    I remember seeing a picture of Jenn's desk at one time. It was thought by some posters, there were some large envelopes on her desk. Does anyone know were we could find the old pictures? TIA

  11. #261
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    Here's what I found interesting. In the news video link that was posted here that showed the measurement 30 seconds in or whatever, we saw a "model" officer in a crouched walking position with the rope coming down over her head down to some sort of target board.

    First of all, it appears to me that the rope was coming from down the parking lot, as it looked like the gate was to their right. I'm assuming they are emulating the position of the camera as far as distance and height for convenience sakes, but I don't know. I mentioned before in another post.

    Secondly, are we to believe that they tried these different height people but only happened to have settled on a 5'4" model just as the news crew was filming? Given how shaky the whole operation was, what result would they have ended up with if the measurement guy were the "model"?

    In other words, if looks like they wanted to "prove" what they already "knew".

    Thirdly, what's with the crouching of this "model"? She looked like Bigfoot or a slalom skier or something with that goofy stride. Yes, there's some lowering of the body as you stride versus just standing up, but in the picture the guys head is straight up. She looked like she was charging something.

    And with all that, did they match the portions of the body through the same gaps in the fence as seen in the photo? That's the only way you do it if you actually want to determine an answer, versus confirm preconceived beliefs.

    Lastly, did they perform the same exercise with the different angle camera that took the shots of the car parking?

    The exercise they need to perform is to re-enact through those cameras and duplicate height and colors.

    rd

  12. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaMer View Post
    leftcoast, I was under the impression LE did have members of their team walk past the camera, for the height and also the color of the poi's shirt. I don't remember where the exact article is now, but there was mention of this, plus the FBI was suppose to have been working of the pictures of the poi.
    --------------

    Crime scene technicians have been working to calculate his height and other information about him. Tuesday, a cadaver dog searched the rooms at an abandoned Orlando resort but found nothing.

    http://www.wftv.com/news/6839223/detail.html
    La Mar

    As far as I know, OPD only measured the height, using a rope and a model. http://www.wftv.com/video/6885628/detail.html I must admit, I have only limited knowledge of what has gone on. I have never heard that OPD used models to walk past the camera's, or done re-enactments. I sure hope they did. When OPD learned about their uniforms being dark, and turning up light in the video, I believe it was while they were measuring the height. Rumor has it, that the FBI reviewed the calculations of the height. Whether the FBI did their own measurements, or simply reviewed the OPD work is not known by any of us.

    Many of us simply want it tested again. I think we have some valid arguments, not to mention the case is cold, and the height is probably the most important clue to date of the POI.

    AS far as the pictures of the POI. yes, the FBI is supposedly the agency that enhanced the video. That is also what I heard.

    I don't know if you read my recent post. But, I am wondering if the POI could possibly be carrying JK's IPOD in his right hand versus an envelope.

    left

  13. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaMer View Post
    For some reason I am able to see more in these shots than before. I do have a different computer, so maybe that is it.

    In poi's left hand/arm, I see a large object, which appears to be a large envelope. I really do see the outline of something large.

    In poi's right side I see poi's hand/arm holding onto something rather long. I see poi is clenching or holding something, then look beyond the slat of the fence, there seems to be something the poi is carrying which is showing there beyond the slat.

    Pertaining to the envelope idea, many at the time the pics were first studied, and before the release of the new info, some theorized, the poi may have been a messenger.

    Does anyone know if Jennifer had a tote bag or something similar missing from her car? I doubt LE ever released anything like this tho. Well what I see in the poi's right hand/arm looks to be bulky.

    Reading back, I saw where there were some thoughts about Jenn having a FedEx or similar mailing envelope in her condo.

    I remember seeing a picture of Jenn's desk at one time. It was thought by some posters, there were some large envelopes on her desk. Does anyone know were we could find the old pictures? TIA
    La Mar

    Supposedly, depending on what article you read, Jk is missing, along with her IPOD, her purse, her briefcase, her cellphone, a second cellphone, and the car keys.

    Mystery gave a post of where to find the FOX pictures. I'll try to find it for you.

    left

  14. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by LaMer View Post
    Reading back, I saw where there were some thoughts about Jenn having a FedEx or similar mailing envelope in her condo.

    I remember seeing a picture of Jenn's desk at one time. It was thought by some posters, there were some large envelopes on her desk. Does anyone know were we could find the old pictures? TIA
    Here is the link to the photos: http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,...17,00.html#9_0

    What I see is a large, flat black box with a silver top which I assume is a jewelry case or such on her desk, what looks to be an open papertype insert (like a tv guide perhaps) and a few loose pieces of paper. I don't see anything resembling a fedex package or envelope. One of those would stand out like a sore thumb there. Plus I am not seeing any packing materials, tape, scissors, etc.

    I am of the opinion, she never packaged the cellphone to be sent and would have done so at the time she sent it off...which never happened.

    Left~ Her wallet is also missing.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  15. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftcoast View Post
    La Mar

    As far as I know, OPD only measured the height, using a rope and a model. http://www.wftv.com/video/6885628/detail.html I must admit, I have only limited knowledge of what has gone on. I have never heard that OPD used models to walk past the camera's, or done re-enactments. I sure hope they did. When OPD learned about their uniforms being dark, and turning up light in the video, I believe it was while they were measuring the height. Rumor has it, that the FBI reviewed the calculations of the height. Whether the FBI did their own measurements, or simply reviewed the OPD work is not known by any of us.

    Many of us simply want it tested again. I think we have some valid arguments, not to mention the case is cold, and the height is probably the most important clue to date of the POI.

    AS far as the pictures of the POI. yes, the FBI is supposedly the agency that enhanced the video. That is also what I heard.

    I don't know if you read my recent post. But, I am wondering if the POI could possibly be carrying JK's IPOD in his right hand versus an envelope.

    left
    Leftcoase, Hi! What am I suppose to be looking at the the link? The video about Orlando? I don't recall anything about ropes, but that doesn't mean anything, as it is easy to forget.

    I dunno, but from what I recall, they did use real people to estimate the size and the color of the shirt for the video. I think, as I recall, that is how they realized the color difference. Hey, it's been a long time tho---unfortuneatly too too long. Too long for not being able to find Jennifer.

    I do agree with you, the heighth is very important!

  16. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by crypto6 View Post
    I'm not a police/forensic dog trainer, but my work involves me with several. If the trail remains dry, four days is no problem.

    Crypto6
    I had someone look up the weather report for the days leading up to the car being found, but not the days directly afterward. The dirt/mud had to have gotten onto the car in some way associated with wet ground tho.

    I will go back to try to find that post and check into the weather after. Interesting! (Haven't found it yet!)

    But in this article, they mentioned, "Soil tests could show where the mud caked on the bottom of the car came from". Where would you find mud in less than 24 hours around Mosaic if it hadn't rained?

    This is the same article: "Something happened there and that's my daughter, a living being, and she was taken from that car," Jennifer's father, Drew Kesse, said.
    http://www.wftv.com/news/7162648/det...=orlc&psp=news
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  17. #267
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    la mar

    here is the link to Jk's condo, took a while to find

    http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,...7,00.html#10_0

    http://www.wftv.com/video/6885628/detail.html copy of video where OPD is measuring height. At 30 second mark. Watch this video of the Kesse's viewing HOTG, and at the 30 second mark, you will see OPD measuring the height of the POI by using a "model" who is a OPD female officer who is suppose to be close to the height of the POI.

    left

  18. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    Here is the link to the photos: http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,...17,00.html#9_0

    What I see is a large, flat black box with a silver top which I assume is a jewelry case or such on her desk, what looks to be an open papertype insert (like a tv guide perhaps) and a few loose pieces of paper. I don't see anything resembling a fedex package or envelope. One of those would stand out like a sore thumb there. Plus I am not seeing any packing materials, tape, scissors, etc.

    I am of the opinion, she never packaged the cellphone to be sent and would have done so at the time she sent it off...which never happened.

    Left~ Her wallet is also missing.
    I agree with you, nothing appears to be an envelope. I thought I would mention it, as there were some who thought otherwise, but I could never see anything resembling any type of packaging.

    In addition to her wallet, I believe Jenn was wearing a necklace, which had been a gift from Rob. Maybe that has been mentioned tho. Geez hope I am remember correctly. Think so tho.

    Oh thanks for the link.

  19. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftcoast View Post
    la mar

    here is the link to Jk's condo, took a while to find

    http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,...7,00.html#10_0

    http://www.wftv.com/video/6885628/detail.html copy of video where OPD is measuring height. At 30 second mark. Watch this video of the Kesse's viewing HOTG, and at the 30 second mark, you will see OPD measuring the height of the POI by using a "model" who is a OPD female officer who is suppose to be close to the height of the POI.

    left
    Thank you! Grrr I am getting all audio and nothing else. I will try this again tomorrow. I'm on dial-up, as nothing real high tech, in my area. LOL I don't live where things are real civilized lol No cable here, only DirectTV, and Verizon hasn't reached the area yet. Maybe someday! I can't wait!

    It's so hard to believe there hasn't been one good tip from the pics of the poi. Unbelievable to me. Somebody had to have witnessed/remembered something. I keep remembering Jennifer in my prayers.

  20. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaMer View Post
    Thank you! Grrr I am getting all audio and nothing else. I will try this again tomorrow. I'm on dial-up, as nothing real high tech, in my area. LOL I don't live where things are real civilized lol No cable here, only DirectTV, and Verizon hasn't reached the area yet. Maybe someday! I can't wait!

    It's so hard to believe there hasn't been one good tip from the pics of the poi. Unbelievable to me. Somebody had to have witnessed/remembered something. I keep remembering Jennifer in my prayers.
    You are welcome.

    Yes, I think you need DSL or a cable modem to get the video of OPD doing measurements.

    I agree. It's almost impossible to believe that nobody has recognized the POI, or his MO, or somebody who has scratches, or a new IPOD, or is nervous about the case, etc.

    This case is amazing. One million fliers, zero suspects.

    left

  21. #271
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    Flat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    Here is the link to the photos: http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,...17,00.html#9_0

    What I see is a large, flat black box with a silver top which I assume is a jewelry case or such on her desk, what looks to be an open papertype insert (like a tv guide perhaps) and a few loose pieces of paper. I don't see anything resembling a fedex package or envelope. One of those would stand out like a sore thumb there. Plus I am not seeing any packing materials, tape, scissors, etc.

    I am of the opinion, she never packaged the cellphone to be sent and would have done so at the time she sent it off...which never happened.

    Left~ Her wallet is also missing.
    The large flat box looks like a laptop to me. In fact, it looks just like mine, but I couldn't see a logo on it. I'll go back and take another look.

  22. #272
    I never heard mention of a necklace! Anyone know anything about that?
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  23. #273
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    The box has paper on top of it, so can't tell if there is a logo.

  24. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    The large flat box looks like a laptop to me. In fact, it looks just like mine, but I couldn't see a logo on it. I'll go back and take another look.
    I thought that, too, at first...but realized if it was a laptop..by the time this photo was taken by Greta's staff, LE would have it in their possession and it wouldn't be sitting on her desk.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  25. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    I never heard mention of a necklace! Anyone know anything about that?

    I never heard of a necklace, but, La Mar may have more knowledge than us.

    left

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