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  1. #16
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    Wouldn't the dog be able to distinguish between a scent left hours earlier, and a scent left after showering and changing clothes?

    left

  2. #17
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    Cat

    I read your theory.

    Firstly you are suggesting if I am correct that it was a planned attack and the poi parked their car at HOTG walked to Mosaic, abducted Jennifer and then went back to collect their vehicle from HOTG out of shot by dumping JKs car?

    I believe there is a sign(correct me if I am wrong) that there are cameras at HOTG, by the fence?

    If you were to plan it doesnt HOTG with cameras(albeit poor ones) seem like a crap place to use as your base?

    Even if there isnt a sign if it was properly planned you would presumably check out the area in advance for cameras?

    So you are going to go there twice and potentially get caught on camera twice?

    Also lets say that the poi didnt know there were cameras at HOTG until they first parked their car there in the morning, surely upon noticing the sign you would then not take JK's car back there as you would know you were going to potentially be caught on camera?

    You would say dump her car elsewhere and walk/bus back to HOTG and therefore HOTG would never appear on the radar of the JK case?

    Perhaps I have been looking at this case too long but my feelings about what happened are starting to change a little.

    At first I felt that this was a very well planned crime but now I'm not so sure it was, just because there is a lack of evidence does not mean that it has been a well planned crime, there is such a thing as luck(and a bungled investigation)

    I am of the belief that the poi knew of HOTG but didnt know there was surveillance, if they did they wouldnt have dumped it there = Not very well planned.

    If the suspect had planned the crime very well then I believe something has made them change the plan and have to dump the car quickly and close(This would tie in with the alarm being raised at Mosaic)

    I agree with Myserty something doesnt add up in this case something is missing and you can't put your finger on it.

    The timing of this when she had just got back from vacation is very interesting to me.

    Perhaps some guy had become fixated with JK and then snapped upon her return knowing that she had been away with Rob?

    This guy may have even approached Jennifer/asked her out on occasion but seememd harmless.

    She may have kept this from Rob to stop trouble thinking she could handle it?

    This could tie back into some guy JK vaguely knows who has hit on her yet nobody else in her family does as she hadnt mentioned it.

    He may have approached her again and she felt comfortable that she
    could handle him especially if he is 5ft 3 - 5, much less intimidating that 6ft 2 until they pull a weapon of course!

    She may have voluntarily given him a lift thinking he is just a sweet guy with a little crush?

    Perhaps he seemed harmless enough just a bit of a loser who had a crush, maybe he wasnt intimidating but he's obsession boiled over knowing she was away with Rob?

    This may explain the planned but not very well planned!!!

    Just more thoughts of mine, I think its possible though I know girlfriends of mine in the past have been hit on but not told me because they didnt want a confrontation, they have said No and thought thats the end of it.

  3. #18
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    I added blowups of the first still of the suspect to the blowups of the second still, on either side of the gate.

    The closeup of the head is very similar to the first one and doesn't reveal anything new. It is not quite as sharp in detail as the other one.

    The tshirt logo in the first shot is a little clearer, but not readable. But perhaps someone will recognize the general pattern of the ring insignia on the front with what looks like streamers across the shirt below the logo.

    http://www.justiceforchandra.com/for...pic.php?t=3033

    rd

  4. #19
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    Good point about the dog left.

    I am one of the believers in Bo. I have never understood why Bo's efforts were so readily discounted, even by Jennifer's parents.

    In one of Ann Rules books I read about this guy who has these amazing bloodhounds that are used for finding bodies in cold cases.
    I understand they have had some very good results.
    I shall look through the books and see if I can find the details.

    I truly believe Jennifer's parents have to move outside the box.
    Sorry to harp but I cannot understand why they don't try something different.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myserty64 View Post
    Good point about the dog left.

    I am one of the believers in Bo. I have never understood why Bo's efforts were so readily discounted, even by Jennifer's parents.

    In one of Ann Rules books I read about this guy who has these amazing bloodhounds that are used for finding bodies in cold cases.
    I understand they have had some very good results.
    I shall look through the books and see if I can find the details.

    I truly believe Jennifer's parents have to move outside the box.
    Sorry to harp but I cannot understand why they don't try something different.
    Thanks Myst.

    I am a huge believer in dogs. My dog would know every time I came home and I was around another dog. It was as if I got caught cheating.

    Part of me thinks that LE didn't want the dog information in the public realm. Just like the Kesse's had to lie about the car being parked, maybe, the dog is the same.

    Yes, it is time to think outside the box. Try anything new.

    What is the definition of insanity: "trying the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result"

    Everyone in the world has seen the POI, either his name is called in, the measurements are off, he is in a trusted position such as law enforcement or security, or he just doesnt' look like the picture.

    left

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myserty64 View Post
    BTW using CatLynette's scenario, especially with the perpetrator behind JK with a gun, it makes it even easier for them to drive past the guard at the gate.
    If the guard wasn't even looking Jennifer couldn't have even 'mouthed' the word help.

    I like Cat's scenario, everything fits.
    So who and where is the perpetrator?

    With this scenario it even explains why nobody recognized the suspect from the security camera photos from when he had walked to the Mosiac earlier that morning. He had the opportunity to change his clothes before dropping off Jennifer's car at the Huntington On The Green. The suspect was most likely dressed differently when he walked to the Mosaic earlier that morning at the time of the abduction.

    If the scenario that my husband and I came up with is correct then the suspect would definitely not be a Mosaic resident or a Mosaic worker. The suspect would have needed to know Jennifer's address, including the exact building. This was definitely not a carjacking because the suspect wasn't interested in keeping Jennifer's car and most likely it wasn't a robbery either. In my opinion, the suspect was only interested in Jennifer. The abduction of Jennifer was premeditated, in my opinion.

    The amount of gas in Jennifer's car, from when it was found, seems to indicate that her car wasn't driven very far that morning. The gas tank in Jennifer's car was about half full, which police indicated was about right for a drive from Fort Lauderdale to Ocoee and then back home to the Mosaic. I seriously have my doubts that the suspect went to a gas station and put gas in Jennifer's car. There is a chance that the suspect took Jennifer to his own apartment/condo/house. Who knew Jennifer and resides only a short distance from the Mosaic? These are the people who Law Enforcement should be looking at.

    In viewing the security camera footage, the broad shoulders, large feet and long stride while walking seem to suggest that the suspect is a male.

    I hope this is not taken the wrong way, however, if my scenario is correct, then the suspect's own vehicle wouldn't have been an expensive type. The Huntington On The Green Condominiums is not in an upper class, expensive neighborhood. If the suspect's vehicle was an expensive type it would have been noticed and remembered since it would have been parked at Huntington On The Green for at least four and a half hours. The suspect's vehicle must have fit in with the other vehicles parked there.

    Just my own opinion

  7. #22
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    Left

    I know nothing about tracker dogs however do we know on what basis the dog was supposedly not tracking correctly?

    What I don't get is what are the chances of the dog tracking back to JKs stair well if it was tracking wrong?

    Isnt that a fantastic coincidence the dog could have gone anywhere surely?

    Or am I being dense?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by UK Sleuth View Post
    Left

    I know nothing about tracker dogs however do we know on what basis the dog was supposedly not tracking correctly?

    What I don't get is what are the chances of the dog tracking back to JKs stair well if it was tracking wrong?

    Isnt that a fantastic coincidence the dog could have gone anywhere surely?

    Or am I being dense?
    No, I totally agree with you UK

    I don't know who started the rumor about the dog not tracking properly.

    Some people on the internet, pretend to be experts on everything, and start rumors.

    I've never heard OPD say the dog was not tracking properly

    That dog could have gone in any direction, heck,. the most likely was to an apartment at HOTG, yet, he pulled the handler back to Mosaic.

    If that dog made the same trek around the pool fence, and back to Mosaic, my money is on the dog.

    LIke I've said, maybe, LE didn't want the dog information getting out, so, someone started a rumor about it.

    If dogs were worthless, customs wouldn't have them at each and every airport.

    left

  9. #24
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    Regarding the security cameras at Huntington On The Green Condominiums, I am sure that most people wouldn't notice the cameras mounted within the peaks of the roof of the pool house. The security camera within the window of the side of the pool house is even more difficult to notice.

    The signs, which indicate in writing about the security cameras, are on the two gates of the fence surrounding the pool. If the suspect parked his own vehicle on the opposite side of the pool and buildings and closest to Americana he could have used a different entrance into Huntington On The Green which was from Americana. The suspect probably used the Texas Avenue entrance when parking Jennifer's car. The first time the suspect saw the gate sign regarding security cameras could have been when he was walking past the pool gate to retrieve his own vehicle located in the parking lot at Huntington On The Green next to Americana, which was in the direction he was walking.

    Just my own opinion

  10. #25
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    I see

    Quote Originally Posted by leftcoast View Post
    No, I totally agree with you UK

    I don't know who started the rumor about the dog not tracking properly.

    Some people on the internet, pretend to be experts on everything, and start rumors.

    I've never heard OPD say the dog was not tracking properly

    That dog could have gone in any direction, heck,. the most likely was to an apartment at HOTG, yet, he pulled the handler back to Mosaic.

    If that dog made the same trek around the pool fence, and back to Mosaic, my money is on the dog.

    LIke I've said, maybe, LE didn't want the dog information getting out, so, someone started a rumor about it.

    If dogs were worthless, customs wouldn't have them at each and every airport.

    left
    Thanks for clearing that up could never really work that out.

    In that case I would go 200% with the dog being correct therefore we could say we 'know' as well as we can know that the poi went back to mosaic.

    The next question is why?

    4 possibilities I think.(please add more!)

    1) He had to because of work or residence.
    2) JK was still there, somewhere.
    3) To rob the place but got scared off by the commotion
    4) To collect his vehicle or bicycle or whatever

    I would discount 3 as it doesnt appear to be a robbery, he did not attempt to use her cards and seemingly had a reasonable period of time to do so.

    I also don't fancy 4 either who would leave their vehicle or bicycle in the vicinity of an abduction, first off LE could swarm the place take photos etc(3 is based on the pot not being a resident)

    Talk about leave a huge clue, I'm still of the opinion the poi didnt have a vehicle of any kind but again it is only my opinion not fact.

    I certainly don't think they had a car because if they had I can see no reason whatsoever to involve JKs car and expose yourself.

    This leaves options 1 or 2 in my opinion.


  11. #26
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    Hate to bring this up, but I must.

    Anybody think this could just be a random, Denis Radar type of thing.?

    Remember, Radar would use the victims car to avoid his car being seen on the premises.

    Radar would cut the phone line, carry a duffel bag with a kit, and actually do recon. on his target.

    Sure, Radar left the victims behind, but, with DNA, the scum of today are changing their practices.

    Sorry to bring it up, I know it isn't a pleasant thought, but maybe it applies here.

    left

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatLynnette View Post
    Regarding the security cameras at Huntington On The Green Condominiums, I am sure that most people wouldn't notice the cameras mounted within the peaks of the roof of the pool house. The security camera within the window of the side of the pool house is even more difficult to notice.

    The signs, which indicate in writing about the security cameras, are on the two gates of the fence surrounding the pool. If the suspect parked his own vehicle on the opposite side of the pool and buildings and closest to Americana he could have used a different entrance into Huntington On The Green which was from Americana. The suspect probably used the Texas Avenue entrance when parking Jennifer's car. The first time the suspect saw the gate sign regarding security cameras could have been when he was walking past the pool gate to retrieve his own vehicle located in the parking lot at Huntington On The Green next to Americana, which was in the direction he was walking.

    Just my own opinion
    Cat

    Thanks for the info clearly you have been to the scene and know a lot more of the logistics than me, heck Im on a different continent.

    What is your take on it being planned yet the CCTV?

    What I'm saying is planned to me means a proper reconnaisance mission, a dry run as it were.

    Surely if HOTG was the base then you would checck the place for cameras in advance or maybe you think our poi isnt that bright just lucky?

    Planned crimes such as bank robberies tend not to go full circle like this they tend to start at point A go to B rob bank go to C then end up at D using different vehicles along the way to break any leads to follow up.

    Using HOTG as the place to park your car and then dump JKs to get yours seems to dangerous to me in a 'planned' crime you are completing the circle by literally almost parking Jks car next to yours(the same applies by leaving your vehicle at Mosaic in the morning)

    This is why I still think this may not be so planned certainly not meticulously anyway.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftcoast View Post
    Hate to bring this up, but I must.

    Anybody think this could just be a random, Denis Radar type of thing.?

    Remember, Radar would use the victims car to avoid his car being seen on the premises.

    Radar would cut the phone line, carry a duffel bag with a kit, and actually do recon. on his target.

    Sure, Radar left the victims behind, but, with DNA, the scum of today are changing their practices.

    Sorry to bring it up, I know it isn't a pleasant thought, but maybe it applies here.

    left
    A definite possibility left however whats your take on it being as soon as she has returned from hols, they would have to have intimate knowledge of her schedule?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by UK Sleuth View Post
    Cat

    Thanks for the info clearly you have been to the scene and know a lot more of the logistics than me, heck Im on a different continent.

    What is your take on it being planned yet the CCTV?

    What I'm saying is planned to me means a proper reconnaisance mission, a dry run as it were.

    Surely if HOTG was the base then you would checck the place for cameras in advance or maybe you think our poi isnt that bright just lucky?

    Planned crimes such as bank robberies tend not to go full circle like this they tend to start at point A go to B rob bank go to C then end up at D using different vehicles along the way to break any leads to follow up.

    Using HOTG as the place to park your car and then dump JKs to get yours seems to dangerous to me in a 'planned' crime you are completing the circle by literally almost parking Jks car next to yours(the same applies by leaving your vehicle at Mosaic in the morning)

    This is why I still think this may not be so planned certainly not meticulously anyway.

    Keeping in mind the guard at the guardhouse, it would help explain IF the suspect chose to park his vehicle at the Huntington On The Green and then walk to the Mosaic to abduct Jennifer in her own car. The suspect didn't want to take a chance of being seen driving into or exiting the Mosaic by the guard in the guardhouse.

    I don't think that the security cameras are very noticeable at Huntington On The Green. If the suspect used the Americana entrance, if there was a dry run and then again on the actual day for parking his own vehicle, this side of the parking lot is away from the cameras and away from the gates to the pool. A person would have to be very near the gates to read what the signs said about the security cameras. The suspect dropped off Jennifer's car at the Huntington On The Green and so he was not careful and was probably very upset with himself when he read that sign on the gate.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by UK Sleuth View Post
    Thanks for clearing that up could never really work that out.

    In that case I would go 200% with the dog being correct therefore we could say we 'know' as well as we can know that the poi went back to mosaic.

    The next question is why?

    4 possibilities I think.(please add more!)

    1) He had to because of work or residence.
    2) JK was still there, somewhere.
    3) To rob the place but got scared off by the commotion
    4) To collect his vehicle or bicycle or whatever

    I would discount 3 as it doesnt appear to be a robbery, he did not attempt to use her cards and seemingly had a reasonable period of time to do so.

    I also don't fancy 4 either who would leave their vehicle or bicycle in the vicinity of an abduction, first off LE could swarm the place take photos etc(3 is based on the pot not being a resident)

    Talk about leave a huge clue, I'm still of the opinion the poi didnt have a vehicle of any kind but again it is only my opinion not fact.

    I certainly don't think they had a car because if they had I can see no reason whatsoever to involve JKs car and expose yourself.

    This leaves options 1 or 2 in my opinion.
    UK

    I think you are probably right on

    However, I wouldn't discount the fact that the POI could have been sitting in his car and waiting for JK to come down to hers.

    If jk was at her car, it would be easier to get one into her car, and less traumatic. For example, maybe, the perp. says all I need is a ride, and some money for a bus ticket, or some lame excuse. IF a perp. tried to get jk into his own car, then JK would know he was not just wanting money.

    Let's think about this rationally. You are the perp., you just kipnapped someone at a place that you live or work. You have to make LE think the crime occurred elsewhere, especially if you think you could be a suspect.

    I've said if before, JK could have been in the shower, or just left her door, someone is lurking is those "stupid" dangerous hallways. The person could put her into a vacant unit, or even their own place. Then, used JK's car to get rid of evidence, and leave it at a place close enough to get back to Mosaic.

    UK I think your ideas are the most likely. Of all the places for the dog to track,he goes to Mosaic.

    I sure wish the handler (if possible) could have taken the dog around the entire campus to see if that scent was anywhere else. If not, one would think the perp. was simply a visitor, and not a resident or worker, which is entirely possible.

    Uk another possible scenario is a "date rape" type of thing, where Jk knew the person, got out of hand, and an accident happened. I wouldn't discount this theory at all (like Arruba) . Maybe JK gave someone a ride, to or from work, and something happened on the way. I don't know Jk's habits.

    It's also possible, that someone showed up unannounced at Jk';s door Monday night, hysterical because she was gone with Rob all weekend. I'm still not convinced the abduction happened tuesday am. That phone sure did get turned off quickly. LIke someone knew Jk's habits. Heck, I can barely use a cellphone, and this guy finds hers, and turns it off quickly. hmm

    Uk I think you and I are thinking alike. However, we need to keep an open mind. I wouldn't rule anything out, especially a "random' opportunity crime by a resident of Mosaic or visitor.

    One scenario that I don't buy is one that happens away from Mosaic. I just find that so unlikley. Wouldn't rule it out, but very unlikely.

    left

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