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  1. #1
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    Most Important Piece of Evidence

    What is the one single fact/piece of evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey case that prevents you from going to the "other side" - innocent or guilty.

    I know there could be more than one, but: what is that one thing, and who do you think did it.

    I'll go first:

    One piece of evidence: The note

    Who do I think did it: Burke (with his parents covering up/Patsy writing note)

    ~Angel~
    This post is my opinion.

  2. #2
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    Ditto, K. The note.

    The note, as written, serves no purpose except to (vainly, IMHO) suggest somebody other than the Rs was in the house that night.

  3. #3
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    JonBenet's body was moved a substantial distance within the house from the time when the crime was initiated to when it concluded. This is unprecedented in intruder murders of children, and not uncommon in parental or acquaintance murders of children. I have to play the odds on this one. I can either go with a theory that has never happened before, or one with ample precedent, and I choose to go with precedent.

    Edited because I left out the second response you looked for:

    I believe JonBenet was moved to the basement to keep Burke from even the remotest possibility of finding her body. And there is also ample evidence to say this is true. Burke was not even allowed to see JonBenet's body at the funeral home, nor was he allowed to leave her one last gift as every single other member of his family was allowed to do. I am inclined to see Patsy as the perpetrator of JonBenet's death, but on this matter I can see how it would fit more with a John-did-it scenario, since he was the parent who made sure to hustle Burke out of the house. If by some chance JonBenet had been kidnapped and managed to get away, she would have run home to greet her happy parents, while her own brother was miles away being denied the opportunity to experience the family's reunion. John made sure this would be true, while Patsy in her utter selfishness did not seem to care one way or the other.
    "That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." -- Anne Elk

  4. #4
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    The lie on the 911 tape was probably the most important item of evidence. It verified that all three Ramseys conspired in a coverup to distant Burke from the crime. IMO Burke killed JonBenet or knows who killed her.

    JMO

  5. #5
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    The pineapple. That child...was awake when they got home. The pineapple proves that. No intruder who breaks into someone's home would waste time feeding his victim - and the victim sure wouldn't be in the mood for eating after being awakened by a stranger.

    I think Burke did something to start the whole ball rolling, then the parents took over from there.

  6. #6
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    The pertinent bit of information for me is that John and Patsy passed a polygraph. By all accounts they were emotionally distraught and devastated by JBR's death. If they had been involved in any way, IMO, they would have failed.(BTW, I have taken several polygraphs, the results of one proving to be inconclusive, although I was honest and had nothing to hide. Anxiety caused the inconclusive result.)

    I believe Gary Oliva did it. Nothing that is known about Gary Oliva is incongruent with what is known about the crime. A sample of his handwriting written 3 years after the crime shows many similarities between individual letters and how groups of similar letters appear in different words. In writings obtained by a poster on another forum he misspelled words with double consanants 5 times( including the RN). His phrasing and sentence structure seems to be consistant with the RN. Some have speculated that JB's death resulted from unseen perversions or dysfunctions or anger in the Ramsey family. Curiously, all these seem to be a part of the crime yet they are found in Gary Oliva. He had been diagnosed or evaluated by someone connected to his past criminal history as having a paraniod schizophrenic personality. In any case, he was convicted of sexual assault against a 7 year old girl, tried to strangle his mother, and prior to the murder had reportedly been acting more bizarre than usual. DNA? The author of the RN stated that he was familiar with LE countermeasures and tactics.
    This is my opinion, and change is good.

  7. #7
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    The Bible.

  8. #8

    Arrow It's the preverbial

    'a criminal always returns to the scene of the crime'

    In particular, the items the Ramsey's asked Pam Paugh to remove from the crime scene.

    http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-pam-removed.htm

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by K777angel
    What is the one single fact/piece of evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey case that prevents you from going to the "other side" - innocent or guilty.

    I know there could be more than one, but: what is that one thing, and who do you think did it.
    The one single piece of evidence is the "ransom note" that was NOT a ransom note.

    Because of my OWN (and not anyone else's) handwriting analysis of the ransom note using the tools of forensic graphology, I know Patsy Ramsey penned the note.

    Because of my OWN (and not anyone else's) linguistic analysis of the ransom note using my training in the field, I know Patsy Ramsey penned the note.

    I get so tired of people saying not all the forensic document examiners agreed, and on a scale of blah blah blah (which doesn't exist) ... no one can say Patsy was the ransom note author.

    I CAN say it, and I will.

    There were at least two examiners who gave Patsy a 100% chance of writing the ransom note (Epstein and Wong) ... but even then, I do not base my opinion on theirs. I base my analysis on what I personally KNOW.

    Patsy tried to disguise her handwriting, and she probably wore gloves since there were no fingerprints on the note. In addition, she used a felt tip pen which makes forgery analysis more difficult, AND she was under great emotional and mental stress. Despite all of these facts, there is still enough similarity that most document examiners cannot rule her out.

    Graphology does not need EXACT matching exemplars, but instead looks at the strokes, presentation and writing as a whole subconscious revelation of personality. The spacing of letters within words, the spacing of words and spacing between lines; the connection of letters, speed, rhythm, pressure, size of letters and case zones are just a few of the areas analyzed.

    Because I know Patsy wrote the ransom note, I know there was no intruder. Ergo, someone in the family caused the injury to JonBenet, and Patsy was, at the very least, in on the cover-up.

    To answer the second question, I do not know WHO caused the initial injury to JBR, but the person is someone Patsy would be willing to protect ... most probably herself or Burke.



    IMO


    Edited for clarity.
    Last edited by Cherokee; 02-20-2004 at 02:05 PM.

  10. #10
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    The note is the only piece of evidence that is positively connected to the crime. Seeing Patsy's exemplars for myself convinced me beyond a doubt that Patsy penned it (See Shylock's posts for the URL) and that Patsy, John, or Burke killed JonBenet.

    The Ramseys knew they had to come up with "proof" of an intruder. Writing a phony ransom note was the only way they could do this. No note = no evidence of an intruder.

    IMO


  11. #11
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    I'm with Shylock on this one --

    PINEAPPLE...

    Which somewhat narrows it down to Patsy or Burke...(sometimes I lean toward JAR)
    IMO -

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=vicktor]The pertinent bit of information for me is that John and Patsy passed a polygraph. By all accounts they were emotionally distraught and devastated by JBR's death. If they had been involved in any way, IMO, they would have failed.(BTW, I have taken several polygraphs, the results of one proving to be inconclusive, although I was honest and had nothing to hide. Anxiety caused the inconclusive result.)


    First of all, you have NO idea whether or not the Ramsey's "passed" a PAID FOR BY THEM polygraph. The first set they took - Patsy did NOT "pass."
    Her results were inconclusive - if that.
    The Ramseys REFUSED - and still do to this day - to take an FBI (that is to say un-fugded) administered polygraph. WHY?? Don't regurgitate their sorry excuse that they "don't trust them" - because we know they DO in fact trust the FBI (when it benefits THEM). They have just recentley announced to the public their thrill at having the FBI test the "DNA" from JonBenet's underwear.
    Wait a minute - I thought the FBI was corrupt and could not be trusted?
    They cannot have it both ways.
    It is quite clear that they are simply AFRAID of having a bona fide polygraph done on them by true experts that are NOT paid by the Ramseys to give a favorable result they can announce at a press conference - and who will NOT allow them to take DRUGS that will affect the outcome of the test.
    How dumb do they think the public is?

    Secondly - there is a reason that polygraph results are not allowed as "evidence" in court. While it is true that they can be a useful "tool" in an investigation, they are not foolproof either.
    Perfect example: Gary Ridgeway - the pathetic and brutal Green River Killer.
    He murdered AT LEAST 48 women - and he PASSED his polygraph.
    Not "inconclusive" - he PASSED.
    So - even if the Ramseys didn't cheat on their polygraphs in any way - it is in NO way a conclusion of innocence because they "passed" a paid for by them
    polygraph.
    It would carry MUCH more weight had it been administered by a non-partial
    party like the FBI who would ensure that the Ramseys entered into the test
    drug-free and that the test was given under the strictest protocols.

    (By the way - my son recently went on a search with his unit looking for one of the bodies of a Green River Killer victim. That was quite interesting! They found nothing. Word is that the GR Killer purposely leads the authorities on a wild goose chase to get out of the prison and go on rides in the country.
    Loser.)
    This post is my opinion.

  13. #13
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    Ed Gelb, the Rs' polygrapher, is the same polygrapher who passed the five Arizona men who claimed to have witnessed one of their friends being abducted by space aliens in 1975, even though a renowned polygrapher who'd tested the so-called "abductee" before Gelb was called in, said the polygraph he administered indicated the "abductee" was being deceptive.

    Gelb was the only polygrapher the Ramsey team could find who didn't demand the Rs be given urine tests for drugs before administering their polygraphs. Gelb and his mentor, Cleve Backster, took the Ramsey project on together.

    Who is Cleve Backster?

    http://gemart.8m.com/ramsey/polygraph/

    Cleve Backster was involved with the Ramsey polygraph tests in a capacity that Lin Wood described as, "quality control." Ed Gelb ran the actual polygraph machine and asked the questions, and his buddy Backster scored the finished tests based on the numerical standards he had developed.

    Info on Backster...

    Twenty years ago, Cleve Backster was doing some experimenting when he decided to hook up his polygraph machine to a house plant. Backster then claimed that not only could he read the plant's emotions, but the plant could read his mind. Backster took his experiment further by devising a machine that would dump live brine shrimp into boiling water at random intervals. The shrimp-machine was placed in front of the polygraph-attached plants and turned on. Backster claimed the machine "showed" that the plants exhibited "emotional" reaction to the shrimps' demise. The plants were supposedly also able to sense the death of a yogurt culture.

    Gelb and Backster...what a team! LOL

    IMO

  14. #14
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    IMO the most important evidence is the DNA that will one day identify the killer.
    The pineapple is only interesting in that there was a kitchen knife on the upstairs sink,one often used to pare fruit. It's a hmmmm..
    IMO

  15. #15
    Unfortunately the DNA can't be dated to the murder. It's use is negated. There is no proof there was a new package of panties. The 10 day search of the home did not produce any such item. It was only years later that the Ramseys themselves produced a package to enter as evidence.

    IOW the panties were not new and freshly removed from a sterile type package as you probably invision.

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