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  1. #46
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Clarksville, Indiana/Louisville, KY Metro area
    Posts
    45
    We need to consider, too, how this Doe, in the era before the internet, got so much accurate information on Joey Chandler. When you consider that Joey's mother was from Buffalo, NY and his father was from Weatherford, TX and his mother's family still lived in NY at the time of the car accident, how did he know so much genealogical information in order to fill out the request for the birth certificate? South Dakota is not exactly close to Texas. Cleveland, on the other hand, is quite close to Buffalo, NY. If he knew this information because of a family connection, I believe he is most likely connected to the Kaaber side of the family.

    The other possibility is that he was provided this data by someone with access to government computers. One of the Tammen theories is that Tammen was recruited by the CIA or the FBI for deep undercover work. I find it a bit odd that every single fingerprint of this Doe was too smudged to use out of a book that he had read. That is one hell of a convenient coincidence. If, on the other hand, the very people entrusted to hide you are also the same people trying to ID you, they could arrange to make that happen. I'm not convinced that the Doe was a good guy. He may have turned some states evidence in return for witness protection and no prosecution. Unless he has a family connection to Joey Chandler, I think it almost has to be that the government provided him with the info he needed to become Joey Chandler.

    As soon as I am able to get into Ancestry, I am going to do some research on the Kaaber family and the Tammen family to see if those two cross paths at all. I'm also going to try to find out if any Kaaber-associated surnames can be linked to any high profile crimes.
    ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~! ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~

    "Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story..."
    - Desiderata, Max Erhmann, 1927
    _______________

    "Lady O'Leary was F R A M E D!!"
    - Kentuckiana, 2015
    ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~ ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    153
    I like your idea but I thought somewhere Tammen had been ruled out.

    It's a possibility he could have been a truck driver or worked in the railroad industry.
    ~~~~~~~Where is Eetu Vainonen? Where is Beverly Potts? Who were the Cleveland Torso Victims? Who is Strongsville Jane Doe?~~~~~~~

  3. #48
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Clarksville, Indiana/Louisville, KY Metro area
    Posts
    45
    I did spend time on a genealogy website yesterday looking through both family histories. Lo and behold, the Chandler family has a lot of old photos posted and one branch of that family has that nose with the really wide septum, the deep space between the nose and the upper lip and the elongated ears. In some of them it is more pronounced than in others, but several of the girls have it very strong. They would be first cousins once removed to the little boy's father. The boy's paternal grandfather was a brother to their paternal great grandfather. The thick-septum nose appears to have come from their paternal great grandmother as only that branch of Chandlers seems to have it but it shows up in several of them. I think he was a Chandler, possibly through his mother.
    ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~! ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~

    "Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story..."
    - Desiderata, Max Erhmann, 1927
    _______________

    "Lady O'Leary was F R A M E D!!"
    - Kentuckiana, 2015
    ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~ ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    264
    It's worth a check.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    1,349

    Far Away From Ohio

    I was looking through the Washington State Department of Corrections Escaped Offenders Most Wanted (http://www.doc.wa.gov/mostwanted/escapedoffenders.aspx) and noticed an escaped convict named Stanley Dee Rose who reminded me of the faux Joseph Newton Chandler III.

    stanrose_front.jpgstanrose_side.jpg
    http://www.doc.wa.gov/mostwanted/Off...y%20Dee&type=e

    Although the WA DOC describes Stanley Rose as being 5'5", I was able to locate an old article (09/15/1958) describing Mr. Rose as 5'7". It sounds as though Mr. Rose has a history of criminal behavior and using aliases since he was 17. His hair looks darker in the photo than what I would consider blond but that is just IMO. portangelessep151958.jpg

    While I'm not sure if it could be mistaken for a hernia (repair?) scar, at the time of his apprehension for a jewelry store robbery in 1970, Mr. Rose was shot in the lower abdomen and required surgery to have the .38 caliber bullet removed and repair perforations in his small intestine. Also, while he was incarcerated, he studied at Walla Walla Community College then Washington State University through some sort of prison extension program. I wasn't able to find out what he studied, though, so I don't know if it was anything remotely close to electronics or drafting.

    Although the warrant for his arrest is dated October 7, 1980, I was able to locate an article about him escaping in the Walla Walla Union Bulletin dated Friday August 4, 1978 stating that Stanley Rose, a Washington State Penitentiary inmate, had escaped from the prison work release program at the University of Washington Seattle and was reported missing the previous Tuesday (August 1, 1978) at 9 PM. Then it seems as though Stanley Rose drops off of the face of the earth; prior to this, it seemed as though he was regularly in Washington state newspapers for reasons relating to his incarceration. wallawallaaug4_1978.jpg

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,228
    Quote Originally Posted by Ambercat View Post
    I was looking through the Washington State Department of Corrections Escaped Offenders Most Wanted (http://www.doc.wa.gov/mostwanted/escapedoffenders.aspx) and noticed an escaped convict named Stanley Dee Rose who reminded me of the faux Joseph Newton Chandler III.

    stanrose_front.jpgstanrose_side.jpg
    http://www.doc.wa.gov/mostwanted/Off...y%20Dee&type=e

    Although the WA DOC describes Stanley Rose as being 5'5", I was able to locate an old article (09/15/1958) describing Mr. Rose as 5'7". It sounds as though Mr. Rose has a history of criminal behavior and using aliases since he was 17. His hair looks darker in the photo than what I would consider blond but that is just IMO. portangelessep151958.jpg

    While I'm not sure if it could be mistaken for a hernia (repair?) scar, at the time of his apprehension for a jewelry store robbery in 1970, Mr. Rose was shot in the lower abdomen and required surgery to have the .38 caliber bullet removed and repair perforations in his small intestine. Also, while he was incarcerated, he studied at Walla Walla Community College then Washington State University through some sort of prison extension program. I wasn't able to find out what he studied, though, so I don't know if it was anything remotely close to electronics or drafting.

    Although the warrant for his arrest is dated October 7, 1980, I was able to locate an article about him escaping in the Walla Walla Union Bulletin dated Friday August 4, 1978 stating that Stanley Rose, a Washington State Penitentiary inmate, had escaped from the prison work release program at the University of Washington Seattle and was reported missing the previous Tuesday (August 1, 1978) at 9 PM. Then it seems as though Stanley Rose drops off of the face of the earth; prior to this, it seemed as though he was regularly in Washington state newspapers for reasons relating to his incarceration. wallawallaaug4_1978.jpg
    This seems like a very good possibility. I think there are strong resemblances with rose. I just wonder about the age. Not sure it's right.

    I also started thinking of the Vietnam era and navy deserters. I found the following navy ensign that went missing. Although his family believes he was murdered, a court found that the suspect was coerced into a confession. He I think his photo also has resemblances, particularly the eyes, which I have been looking for.


    http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/almuns.htm

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,228
    Quote Originally Posted by Ambercat View Post
    I was looking through the Washington State Department of Corrections Escaped Offenders Most Wanted (http://www.doc.wa.gov/mostwanted/escapedoffenders.aspx) and noticed an escaped convict named Stanley Dee Rose who reminded me of the faux Joseph Newton Chandler III.

    stanrose_front.jpg[ATTACH=CONFIG]y76378[/ATTACH]
    http://www.doc.wa.gov/mostwanted/Off...y%20Dee&type=e

    Although the WA DOC describes Stanley Rose as being 5'5", I was able to locate an old article (09/15/1958) describing Mr. Rose as 5'7". It sounds as though Mr. Rose has a history of criminal behavior and using aliases since he was 17. His hair looks darker in the photo than what I would consider blond but that is just IMO. portangelessep151958.jpg

    While I'm not sure if it could be mistaken for a hernia (repair?) scar, at the time of his apprehension for a jewelry store robbery in 1970, Mr. Rose was shot in the lower abdomen and required surgery to have the .38 caliber bullet removed and repair perforations in his small intestine. Also, while he was incarcerated, he studied at Walla Walla Community College then Washington State University through some sort of prison extension program. I wasn't able to find out what he studied, though, so I don't know if it was anything remotely close to electronics or drafting.

    Although the warrant for his arrest is dated October 7, 1980, I was able to locate an article about him escaping in the Walla Walla Union Bulletin dated Friday August 4, 1978 stating that Stanley Rose, a Washington State Penitentiary inmate, had escaped from the prison work release program at the University of Washington Seattle and was reported missing the previous Tuesday (August 1, 1978) at 9 PM. Then it seems as though Stanley Rose drops off of the face of the earth; prior to this, it seemed as though he was regularly in Washington state newspapers for reasons relating to his incarceration. wallawallaaug4_1978.jpg
    This seems like a very good possibility. I think there are strong resemblances with rose. I just wonder about the age. Not sure it's right.

    I also started thinking of the Vietnam era and navy deserters. I found the following navy ensign that went missing. Although his family believes he was murdered, a court found that the suspect was coerced into a confession. I think his photo also has resemblances. I should note that the suspect later pled when a court of appeals upheld the confession. I think he looks a lot like him though.

    http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/almuns.htm

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,228
    I am really curious to know whether military servicemans' fingerprints from the Vietnam era are in NCIS.

    I keep thinking of this guy whose prints didn't make it to the NCIS.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...fault%7Ctitle=

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    1,349
    John Newton Chandler III's was born on 03/11/1937; Stanley Dee Rose's birthday is 11/21/1941. There's roughly a four year difference.

    I don't think Vietnam era servicemen's prints are in available in a computer database just because of how long it took the LA County Coroner to ID Buddy Stuart (IMO). I really do wish that there was more information available about people believed to have gone AWOL during the 1970s to early 1980s but that has to do with trying to ID Randy Kraft's unidentified victims.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    21,751
    What a fascinating thread!
    Media thread for Abby and Libby.


    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...5#post13163455

    WebSleuths Lingo thread.

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...bsleuths-Lingo

    Unless I provide a link, every one of my posts are to be considered rumor, Speculation, or simply MY OWN OPINION.

    We are the watchers. We are witnesses. We see what has gone before. We see what happens now, at this dangerous moment in human history. We see what's going to happen - what will surely happen - unless we come together: we - the Peoples of all Nations - to restore peace and harmony and balance to the Earth, our Mother.


    THE IGNORE BUTTON IS YOUR FRIEND!


  11. #56
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,228
    N
    Quote Originally Posted by Owutatangledweb View Post
    This seems like a very good possibility. I think there are strong resemblances with rose. I just wonder about the age. Not sure it's right.

    I also started thinking of the Vietnam era and navy deserters. I found the following navy ensign that went missing. Although his family believes he was murdered, a court found that the suspect was coerced into a confession. He I think his photo also has resemblances, particularly the eyes, which I have been looking for.


    http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/almuns.htm
    I keep coming back to the picture of this man. It's those eyes that I keep coming back to, but as I look closer at the picture, everything else seems right on to me... The nose is right, the facial structure, the mouth, and particularly the chin right down to where indentations or shadows appear on the chin, and the chin shape. I know his family wants to consider him exhonorated and considers him deceased, but what if they're wrong? I don't believe they'd ever cooperate with DNA and theyd have to exhume the UID to do it.

    Had anyone else here examined his photo closely?t


    Note: I edited my previous post to say the court of appeals said the confession was not coerced but for some reason That edit doesn't show up in this repost.

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,228
    I just saw that DNA tests are submitted but are not complete on the UID.

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,228
    Another pic of the navy ensign at this link

    http://www.allthingscrimeblog.com/20...drew-lee-muns/

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    13
    Original newspaper article that ran in Yonkers NY about the auto accident. http://tinyurl.com/nwqjfom

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    13
    A few more links to case files and other correspondence with regards to this case I have just come across..
    Case Part 1: http://www.scribd.com/doc/267598309/...II-Case-part-1
    Case Part 2: http://www.scribd.com/doc/267598508/...II-Case-part-2
    Case Part 3: http://www.scribd.com/doc/267598502/...II-Case-part-3
    I do have the unedited crime scene photo links, but did not post them due to the graphic nature... I am new here and not sure what is allowed and what is not.

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