General discussion thread No. 15

Please continue here.

Justice and peace for Madeleine!!

So Mrs. Fenn "corrects" the record? How very interesting. She has either been hounded to death, and wants to be left alone, or she has been threatened with a lawsuit? Hard to eliminate her statement altogether. I will need to go back, and read the witness statment made by the resort manager.

ok, I have one last post, before I throw my sorry @ss out of here, before you guys do ;]

Rental of the Scenic Car and the Weird Trip to see the Pope
What the hell was up with that European Find Maddie tour? I mean, really! And it seems that it was a peculiarly convenient time to rent the car, have it for one day, and then high-tail it out of the country for a while. Here's where I'm going:

1. Day 1 - The cadaver will begin putrefaction immediately after death, but we are estimating that cadaver dogs will detect a cadaver scent, 2 hours after death. Let this time/date start the clock running - Day 1.

2. Day 7 through day 15This is the interval of time, when technical papers written on the subject of putrefaction, suggest that a cadaver begins to shed hair.

Did anyone in the Tappas 9 group, have the rental agreement on the Scenic Renault, and simply allowed the McCann's to put that same car in the McCann's name?

Someone is thinking...we have to get this "package" out of here. However, you don't want to even be in this country, when it is moved. The McCanns' flight out of the country, could be considered rather a convenient time, for someone else to "move, transport and bury" the body. Most/all eyes were on the McCanns.

3. Day 25 - The McCanns hire the Scenic Renault.
4. Day 26 - The McCanns were reported to shop for needed clothes, before flying out to Rome, etc.

5. Day 27 - The McCanns fly out of Portugal
The Pope, who has been rather "absent" for years, during the perv-priest debacle, is amazingly available to the McCanns. I am dumbfounded. Pope knows a good photo op when he sees one. Pardon my sarcasim.

And the car becomes available to this circle of friends, family and others.
STOP: Here is the where I begin to ponder, how convenient it was, that a car was procured, and the McCanns fly out of the country. Now, we hear that this very car, turns out to have a cadaver scent and bodily fluids in the boot.

This was either a very deliberate staging of events, to move and bury the body; or it was an uncanny coincidence, that the "chain-of-custody" so to speak, for the car, is so hacked up by the communal use of the vehicle, the evidence collected from the car alone, would never convict the McCanns.

The PJ must have something else. Something big.

Ok...showing myself to the door...

Should have put a warning with that link colomom "warning:may cause crying"

That is such a sweet picture.Such a beautiful little girl.

colomom- I love that picture of Maddie. It is so peaceful.
Thanks for sharing!

The PJ must have something else. Something big.

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That's exactly what I think, they are taking their time because what they are gathering or have is HUGE, leaving no doubt on who are the perpetrator/s.

About Mrs. Fenn: I agree, she's probably been hounded to death. And she's bound by the same secrecy laws as the McCanns.

ceeaura said:

Should have put a warning with that link colomom "warning:may cause crying"

That is such a sweet picture.Such a beautiful little girl.

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I am very sorry..you are right, a disclaimer is in order...

It is that sweetness and innocence and newness at life....it just grabs my heart and won't let go (no matter how hard I try to break free).

:blowkiss: ceeaura...I hope she is in the arms of the angels, no matter where she is.

Thanks for the pic Colomom This little girl is PRECIOUS. *sigh* I was looking at a video with the Mc Canns and her in Portugal and she was soooo small! A little angel...

colomom said:

I am very sorry..you are right, a disclaimer is in order...

It is that sweetness and innocence and newness at life....it just grabs my heart and won't let go (no matter how hard I try to break free).

:blowkiss: ceeaura...I hope she is in the arms of the angels, no matter where she is.

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Me too.Safe,happy and Loved!

Why is it that people assume that physician parents are less likely to neglect and/or abuse their children that a poor/uneducated parent?

Society doesn't want to recognize that child abuse has nothing to do with socioeconomics or race. Child abuse is a disease that permeates all of society because we don't want to confront it.

Look at the McCanns actions and put them in this perspective:

Mom is young and black, she leaves her child alone in an apartment so that she can go drinking with her friends just down the street. There isn't a social worker in this country who would defend the actions of this mother.

Why is it that because the McCanns were educated and white their actions become defensible? The McCanns are guilty of child neglect based upon their own admissions. FACT.

Siren, you are ABSOLUTELY right. Unfortunately, society gets caught into the "look"/"race"/"social status" crap that they FAIL to see the real picture. The SAME people who defend the Mc Canns saying they could NOT possibly kill the little girl will NOT defend a woman in the same example you have given, I don't care what they said. THAT'S FOR SURE.

That is the kind of photo anyone would treasure because it shows you what a precious treasure the child is. I keep a photo of my oldest at that age on my nightstand...simply to remind me that she inside, she is always my precious child. You must pass out kleenex next time with a pic like that, dear!

It is infuriating to me as well that educated and wealthy parents are somehow immune to charges of child neglect.

There were two working class parents in southeast Harris County in the past year, they had a 30 minute overlap where one parent was coming home from swingshift and the other had to leave. They left the two young children sleeping in the apartment when they did that, in the early hours of the morning, but there was an electrical short and a fire, and the children died.

They are being charged criminally for the children's deaths. It is sickening to me to compare two people trying to make a living, and working, and the McCanns going out to have dinner with the disposable income to hire babysitters or nighttime daycare, but refusing.

Especially when the two parents involved should have known better than anyone else what can happen to unsupervised children.

Me too, Texana. My daughter is now 22 years old but one of the pics I keep on hand was taken when she was five. I love the picture because it seems to reveal the inner soul of my child, along with her sweet facial features. Even now, I can gaze at the picture and instantly recall what a precious little girl she was...now grown to a beautiful young woman.

The photo of Maddie is heartbreakingly poignant.

Siren said:

Why is it that people assume that physician parents are less likely to neglect and/or abuse their children that a poor/uneducated parent? . . ..

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Because the last studies I ever saw quoted about the subject seemed to indicate the rate of abuse and other crimes was worse in low income households where education was also less. They have more stress and less knowhow to use in dealing with it.

As to the rest of your post which seemed to be bait for racial discussion: I don't think I will respond to such thoughts as that would be "taking the bait".


Has anyone stopped to think that just maybe the parents admission about leaving the children alone for a time was meant to sort of take the heat and suspicion off them for the more serious crime which perhaps only they knew had happened? It is an old old tactic to admit to a lesser sin to avoid having people find out about a much more serious crime.

Look how much wasted time and energy and attention has been spent in people getting angry about the lesser evil of leaving the children alone and whether or not this was child endangerment or not and so on while the attention paid to greater evil of the death of the missing little girl has paled by comparison. Were people then intentionally sidetracked?

Brought over from Theory thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wicket
Could one parent be covering for another? Just suppose one parent has been known to have a quick temper and the other parent has been continuously covering for him/her. In this case, if this was found out, the twins would be taken away during investigation and also their reputations adversely affected. It has happened time and again where a parent professes the innocence of the other parent even when a child is covered with bruises, sexually molested or dead.

OTOH, the mother went through many procedures to have children - what if the father was less interested in fathering than has been depicted?

And around and around I go.......

I too have been going round and round... but I do agree with Wicket's above theory that one parent is covering for the other.

I mentioned on another thread that Maddie's emotionless expressions reminded me of Lisa Steinberg (Hedda Nussbaum's and Joel Steinberg's child that was abused and "accidently" killed). Hedda remained silent out of fear. Is Kate remaining silent and stoic because she's abused, blackmailed, threatened?

My theory of the moment is that Kate's eggs were used for the pregnancy, but not Gerry's sperm. He may have resentments that Maddie isn't truly his and doesn't feel strong emotional love towards her...

(Someone mentioned Gerry being narcissistic/sociopathic, which = not having normal emotions towards others; being capable of killing, covering up, grotesque manuveuring, abuse to the body, etc. ALA Scott P.)

I think the "accident" happened before the dinner. Kate and Gerry used the get-together at the bar as an alibi. I think the many bottles of wine were ordered and consumed to hide their fear and guilt, and to hopefully get their companions intoxicated enough to not notice Kate's and Gerry's demeaner.

Re vomit of a child mentioned:
When the "accident" did happen (whether over-dose, shaking, hitting, throwing) and caused Maddie's death, I think K and G tried CPR to revive her.
When I worked on the medical floor at Children's Hospital (LA), there were many times that we preformed CPR on a child.

Many times with compressions, vomitus would shoot out and all over us and the bed and sometimes the wall, even. (Depending on the contents of the child's stomach and how hard the compressor pressed.)

K and/or G called O'Brian to "help" revive Maddie, and got involved in the cover-up when he found out what really happened.

Maddie was dead and in a separate bedroom from the twins when K and G left for the bar. They told the person doing the "children check" rounds to NOT enter the room, but to just listen to see it if it was quiet in there.

This is my theory for now... until I read someone else's... in a few minutes!

For now, I'm just:

:banghead: :furious: :waitasec: :sick: :doh: :furious:

docwho3 said:

Has anyone stopped to think that just maybe the parents admission about leaving the children alone for a time was meant to sort of take the heat and suspicion off them for the more serious crime which perhaps only they knew had happened? It is an old old tactic to admit to a lesser sin to avoid having people find out about a much more serious crime.

Look how much wasted time and energy and attention has been spent in people getting angry about the lesser evil of leaving the children alone and whether or not this was child endangerment or not and so on while the attention paid to greater evil of the death of the missing little girl has paled by comparison. Were people then intentionally sidetracked?

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That's a good point. It's an old kids' ploy- admit to doing something minor, whether the truth or not, so you don't get nailed for a misbehavior that will land you in deep doo-doo.

Oh my gosh, that picture....

BloodshotEye said:

So Mrs. Fenn "corrects" the record? How very interesting. She has either been hounded to death, and wants to be left alone, or she has been threatened with a lawsuit? Hard to eliminate her statement altogether. I will need to go back, and read the witness statment made by the resort manager.

Click to expand...

I wonder if she's been threatened and is frightened - not necessarily by Team McCann but by supporters.

And I hope the PJ has something big - its impossible to tell IMO. The police investigations and the media relations are so different than in the us that I honestly have no idea whats true and whats false.

In looking at those pictures of them from May 27th, I couldn't help but remember Susan Smith at the grave of her children with the balloons and silly string... *shudder*. These two & their kids should have kept a low profile (in some ways). I don't think the blogs and public appearances were necessary. If they wanted to look like they're searching for Maddie, then the only thing they should have done was publicly appear to search for her. IMHO

Siren, you're absolutely right on how society can't conceive of an upper-class family doing something like this. Their actions are unfathomable.

NY'ers: do you remember this story? An internist/doctor here on Long Island tried to kill himself and was known to be depressed, even though he continued to practice. He finally did it by leaving the car running in the garage for many hours. His wife and daughter came home, and when they opened the door from the inside of the home (into the garage), they instantly died from Carbon Monoxide fumes. He was my doctor. I remember how shocked and angry everyone was because he was a doctor. I'll never forget what my mom said, "just because he has a Dr.'s license doesn't make him more human than you & me."

MG