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  1. #1
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    Wink No concrete evidence against K & G

    This is the latest from the PJ today. Also -- it appears there is only a two hour window (6:00pm was the last time Maddy was seen in public after eating ice cream with the vacationing group) of time in which she had the accident/was murdered and hidden.

  2. #2
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    Geez, i would hate these two to get away with this!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by BethyC View Post
    This is the latest from the PJ today. Also -- it appears there is only a two hour window (6:00pm was the last time Maddy was seen in public after eating ice cream with the vacationing group) of time in which she had the accident/was murdered and hidden.
    The times have always been, and still are, in question. There were reports of a CCTV tape of her eating a "snack" with Gerry and Russell O'Brien at 6:30PM (this has never been validated). Also there have been many reports that the parents arrived at the Tapas restaurant at 8:45PM (stated by members of the group and the staff).

    I personally believe that the CCTV rumor is false and the 8:45PM arrival time is accurate. Therefore, the timelines that show the children being picked up at the creche at (normal closing time) 5:30PM (see: http://www.markwarner.co.uk/why-choo...f-fun-for-kids) and probably taken back to the apartment to have tea and prepare for bed, and then Gerry played tennis (it was reported that's why they were late to dinner) with the McCann's arriving at the Tapas at 8:45PM, seems like the most likely scenario.

    So, my window is 3 hours and 15 minutes....

    Pure speculation of course.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BethyC View Post
    This is the latest from the PJ today. Also -- it appears there is only a two hour window (6:00pm was the last time Maddy was seen in public after eating ice cream with the vacationing group) of time in which she had the accident/was murdered and hidden.
    http://www.channel4.com/news/article...n+probe/805177

    ~snippet~

    "A Portuguese newspaper reported that a high-ranking officer in the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) - Portugal's CID - said the evidence was not even strong enough to prove whether Madeleine is dead.

    It is now 135 days since the the four-year-old vanished from her bed in her family's holiday apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz.

    The unnamed PJ officer told the 24 Horas newspaper: "We have nothing concrete. There are a lot of indications, but without more elements it's impossible to determine what happened in those four vital hours in the case (between 6pm and 10pm on the night Madeleine vanished).

    "Even if the blood and traces gathered in the car or in the apartment were confirmed to correspond 100 per cent to the little girl's DNA, that wouldn't prove anything.

    "Those elements could only confirm - and that doesn't even happen - that the little girl was in the apartment (which is obvious) and in the car.

    "In either of the cases nothing would prove homicide, just that the body of the little girl had been transferred in the vehicle."

    ~continues~

    I think the word "concrete" is a bit misleading. Seems like, in this context, concrete means absolute proof. Many a case has been tried without absolute proof.

    IMHO.

  5. #5
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    I think that term "concrete" is either inaccurate translation or a slightly "off" word in English chosen by the officer. Typical of the two language issues here.

    We have a very international group of ballet parents (Chinese, Brazilian, French-Canadian, Argentinian, Venezuelan, and New Yorker, LOL) and just sitting and talking with them last night, I can recall many times there was a word pause, or stop to correct and re-word something.

    As for the time line, I have no problem seeing that even two hours would be enough time. As well, the McCanns showed up at the restaurant at 8:45. Anybody showing up later would have had additional time to help them.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by colomom View Post
    http://www.channel4.com/news/article...n+probe/805177

    ~snippet~

    "A Portuguese newspaper reported that a high-ranking officer in the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) - Portugal's CID - said the evidence was not even strong enough to prove whether Madeleine is dead.

    It is now 135 days since the the four-year-old vanished from her bed in her family's holiday apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz.

    The unnamed PJ officer told the 24 Horas newspaper: "We have nothing concrete. There are a lot of indications, but without more elements it's impossible to determine what happened in those four vital hours in the case (between 6pm and 10pm on the night Madeleine vanished).

    "Even if the blood and traces gathered in the car or in the apartment were confirmed to correspond 100 per cent to the little girl's DNA, that wouldn't prove anything.

    "Those elements could only confirm - and that doesn't even happen - that the little girl was in the apartment (which is obvious) and in the car.

    "In either of the cases nothing would prove homicide, just that the body of the little girl had been transferred in the vehicle."

    ~continues~

    I think the word "concrete" is a bit misleading. Seems like, in this context, concrete means absolute proof. Many a case has been tried without absolute proof.

    IMHO.

    I was just coming to post this

    PORTUGUESE police appeared to take a step back from charging Madeleine McCann's parents yesterday after a senior officer said they had "nothing concrete'' to implicate them in her disappearance.


    Detectives may be depending on Kate and Gerry McCann making a confession in order to prove their suspicions, a Portuguese newspaper reported.The couple were declared formal suspects in the case exactly a week ago, and are now back in Britain waiting to learn whether they will be charged.
    A “high-ranking” officer in the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) – Portugal's criminal investigation department – said the evidence was not even strong enough to prove whether Madeleine is dead.
    http://www.independent.ie/world-news...s-1081001.html

  7. #7
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    KOOL LOOK is offline ~~~Sin is the Cause of all Sorrow~~~For this Gal, "Love" is my Vengence
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    Quote Originally Posted by BethyC View Post
    This is the latest from the PJ today. Also -- it appears there is only a two hour window (6:00pm was the last time Maddy was seen in public after eating ice cream with the vacationing group) of time in which she had the accident/was murdered and hidden.
    What I don't understand, though, is how can we use this as truth, evidence or proof, but we can't use anything else being reported as the same?

    See, this is where I get confused. I go along with colomom's post here about the timeline. It's as good as we have to stand on for the time being.

    I believe she was killed then hidden for those days then moved.

    I'm also leaning towards her body being in the ocean, but more so somewhere near the church, if not on the property somewhere. The timeline shows there's plenty of time to kill her in this one and colomom's post.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthMom View Post
    Geez, i would hate these two to get away with this!
    I can't understand why you're so adamant they are the killers. Do you have any proof? It seems like you hate them for some reason I cannot fathom and want them drawn and quartered, evidence of guilt or not.

    Maybe I'm wrong, I hope so. If so, can you tell me why you want them punished so badly with no proof of guilt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KOOL LOOK View Post
    What I don't understand, though, is how can we use this as truth, evidence or proof, but we can't use anything else being reported as the same?

    See, this is where I get confused. I go along with colomom's post here about the timeline. It's as good as we have to stand on for the time being.

    I believe she was killed then hidden for those days then moved.

    I'm also leaning towards her body being in the ocean, but more so somewhere near the church, if not on the property somewhere. The timeline shows there's plenty of time to kill her in this one and colomom's post.
    Because this quote actually has a PERSON behind it. It has been ACTUALLY quoted word for word around the media as a SENIOR DETECTIVE as the 'author'.
    THAT'S the difference. What I don't understand, is how come the 'guilty's' among us only ever question reports that suggest the McCann's are possibly innocent?
    For crying out loud, some had no problem taking for gospel that they were swingers with an uncontrollable child that they abused and left alone EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. Madeleine only had to be referred to as a 'handful' before it's believed she was completely uncontrollable and has autism to boot. Now, for those believing she was out of control are trying to hang Kate for possibly using the word 'hysterical'.
    Above is my opinion only

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AfterMidnight View Post
    I can't understand why you're so adamant they are the killers. Do you have any proof? It seems like you hate them for some reason I cannot fathom and want them drawn and quartered, evidence of guilt or not.

    Maybe I'm wrong, I hope so. If so, can you tell me why you want them punished so badly with no proof of guilt?
    Precisely!!! Some have formed the 'guilty' opinion from media reports alone....but the media suggests there is no evidence, suddenly the parents must be 'getting away with it'
    Above is my opinion only


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brefie View Post
    Because this quote actually has a PERSON behind it. It has been ACTUALLY quoted word for word around the media as a SENIOR DETECTIVE as the 'author'.
    THAT'S the difference. What I don't understand, is how come the 'guilty's' among us only ever question reports that suggest the McCann's are possibly innocent? .
    From the article:

    One senior officer .....reported that a high-ranking officer in the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) - Portugal's CID .......unnamed PJ officer told the 24 Horas newspaper.......One "credible" theory of investigators


    Brefie, I don't see this as any more truthstworthy than what some have called gossip. There is not one named official in the story therefore not one shred of "proof" to it legitimacy.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rino View Post
    From the article:

    One senior officer .....reported that a high-ranking officer in the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) - Portugal's CID .......unnamed PJ officer told the 24 Horas newspaper.......One "credible" theory of investigators


    Brefie, I don't see this as any more truthstworthy than what some have called gossip. There is not one named official in the story therefore not one shred of "proof" to it legitimacy.
    Thought I saw a name, perhaps not...couldn't find one just now.

    Anyhoo, for me it's slightly more legitimate. I am not going to try to shove down anyone's throat.


    (ETA: not that you said I was, or anything! )
    Last edited by Brefie; 09-15-2007 at 04:28 PM. Reason: clairification.
    Above is my opinion only

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AfterMidnight View Post
    I can't understand why you're so adamant they are the killers. Do you have any proof? It seems like you hate them for some reason I cannot fathom and want them drawn and quartered, evidence of guilt or not.

    Maybe I'm wrong, I hope so. If so, can you tell me why you want them punished so badly with no proof of guilt?
    If the McCanns are guilty of harming Madeleine, I don't want to see them get away with it either. Every person, especially a child, who has been harmed by someone else deserves to have the perp caught and punished. Some of us are just more convinced of the parents' guilt than others.

    Please stop referring to people who disagree with the McCanns as "hating" them. I don't hate them. I hate what I think they did to Madeleine but not them as people.

  14. #14
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    KOOL LOOK is offline ~~~Sin is the Cause of all Sorrow~~~For this Gal, "Love" is my Vengence
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliKid View Post
    If the McCanns are guilty of harming Madeleine, I don't want to see them get away with it either. Every person, especially a child, who has been harmed by someone else deserves to have the perp caught and punished. Some of us are just more convinced of the parents' guilt than others.

    Please stop referring to people who disagree with the McCanns as "hating" them. I don't hate them. I hate what I think they did to Madeleine but not them as people.

    Thank you calikid. I just posted on fencesitters and I felt I had to keep defending my feelings and saying I dont' hate Kate.

    It got started over there on that thread by a few and it needs to stop.

  15. #15
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    It seems to me that most of the so-called evidence is just falling apart.

    Madeleine: Hair in McCann Renault: It could be anyone's'

    ' British forensic experts have concluded the fragments said to be Madeleine's could belong to any number of people who had come into contact with the silver Renault Scenic.

    This demolishes earlier claims that the hairs would prove the McCanns had hidden Madeleine's body in the car after killing her in their holiday apartment.

    The fragments found did not even allow the scientists to establish the sex or age of the individual. "
    (more at link)

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

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