Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 234

Thread: OK - Girl Scout Murders, Lori Farmer, 8, Michelle Guse, 9, Doris Milner, 10, 1977

  1. #76
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    896
    Interesting. Is this guy still alive?

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,629
    When I Google him, his name just comes up in connection with the murders. I did find two articles on newspaperarchives.com from 1977 that said Shroff's house was broken into the same night of the murders, so maybe he didn't have anything to do with it. I copied the link from one of them below. I hope the link comes through okay; it's hard to copy those PDF files from the newspaperarchive site. I can't find evidence yet whether he is still alive. If he is, he would be around 80 this year. Evidently, Jack Shroff's main residence was in Tulsa and he only lived part-time on that farm.

    The article is in about the center of the front page in the link below, and says "Lead Uncovered in Scout Probe." The article is continued on the next page, but it's just a short paragraph and really doesn't say anything relevant.

    http://www.newspaperarchive.com/PdfV...ge=0&fpo=False
    Last edited by MaryLiz; 12-03-2009 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Added sentence

  3. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to MaryLiz For This Useful Post:


  4. #78
    believe09's Avatar
    believe09 is offline For nothing is secret that will not be revealed
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Oh Captain, My Captain
    Posts
    26,177
    So let's ponder why a guy who lived just a mile from the crime scene would not only participate in this heinous set of murders, but also keep the evidence that he participated around on his property???
    email me


    Long Lost Love: The Bob Harrod Story Disappeared/ID Network
    Amazon: Purchase Long Lost Love $1.99


    Bob Harrod SAR


    “The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.”
    ― Maya Angelou

  5. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to believe09 For This Useful Post:


  6. #79
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    896
    I am not one to give the benefit of the doubt, but it is possible that this buys’ farm was broken into and the killer(s) put the evidence there. Does that farm still exist?

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to scriptgirl For This Useful Post:


  8. #80
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,629
    Quote Originally Posted by believe09 View Post
    So let's ponder why a guy who lived just a mile from the crime scene would not only participate in this heinous set of murders, but also keep the evidence that he participated around on his property???
    After reading some more old newspaper articles about it, I guess he wouldn't. But when I first read about him, it was one of those WTH moments, more for the fact that they let him go on the weakness of a passed polygraph. That always surprises me because lie detector tests are reportedly so unreliable. I also didn't know his house was broken into the very same night as the murders until I started reading those old articles.

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MaryLiz For This Useful Post:


  10. #81
    believe09's Avatar
    believe09 is offline For nothing is secret that will not be revealed
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Oh Captain, My Captain
    Posts
    26,177
    Quote Originally Posted by Cambria View Post
    After reading some more old newspaper articles about it, I guess he wouldn't. But when I first read about him, it was one of those WTH moments, more for the fact that they let him go on the weakness of a passed polygraph. That always surprises me because lie detector tests are reportedly so unreliable. I also didn't know his house was broken into the very same night as the murders until I started reading those old articles.
    OH NO-I agree with you completely!!! I had to pull myself back for a moment because I thought you had completely nailed it to be honest....
    email me


    Long Lost Love: The Bob Harrod Story Disappeared/ID Network
    Amazon: Purchase Long Lost Love $1.99


    Bob Harrod SAR


    “The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.”
    ― Maya Angelou

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to believe09 For This Useful Post:


  12. #82
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    259
    The Shroff farm came under the scrutiny of the investigators when the tracking dogs followed the scent from Camp Scott to the farm. It was then that they found that the items from the murder scene matched items that were on the farm.

    It was determined that Mr. Shroff was not even in the LG area on the night of the murders and he passed a poly as well. I personally think that the killer(s) broke into the farm and used it to suit their needs since it was known locally that Mr Shroff did not live there all the time.

  13. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to mnegri1973 For This Useful Post:


  14. #83
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    22,198
    The Topix/McAlester link gaia227 references above (#63) has some other items of interest---the series of posts by Julie_A from last month (#72, 74-5) is quite interesting. The poster claims to have been the fourth girl assigned to the tent ("That was the tent I was assigned to, but I was pulled out at the last minute"), and also lists three other possible suspects by name. Julie_A believes Hart was involved but that others participated. The usual caveat for Topix info, but her posts make compelling reading.

    http://www.topix.com/forum/city/mcal...U3RJTRDGU18/p3

    On the first page of that thread, Let The Truth Prevail (from 2007, #12) also names a name. Also of interest: lkk on page two (#27, from 2008), who claims to have at Camp Scott that night with her older sister.
    Last edited by wfgodot; 12-04-2009 at 09:55 PM.
    We are, I know not how, double in ourselves, so that what we believe we disbelieve, and cannot rid ourselves of what we condemn. (Michel de Montaigne)

  15. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to wfgodot For This Useful Post:


  16. #84
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    259
    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    The Topix/McAlester link gaia227 references above (#63) has some other items of interest---the series of posts by Julie_A from last month (#72, 74-5) is quite interesting. The poster claims to have been the fourth girl assigned to the tent ("That was the tent I was assigned to, but I was pulled out at the last minute"), and also lists three other possible suspects by name. Julie_A believes Hart was involved but that others participated. The usual caveat for Topix info, but her posts make compelling reading.

    http://www.topix.com/forum/city/mcal...U3RJTRDGU18/p3

    On the first page of that thread, Let The Truth Prevail (from 2007, #12) also names a name. Also of interest: lkk on page two (#27, from 2008), who claims to have at Camp Scott that night with her older sister.
    I also believe that she posts under the name of Absynthe on the yuku GSM board. I will agree with ya that what she posts makes for good reading but some of it is just so over the top. If you read what she has posted on the other board you will see what I mean.

    As for her suppose to being the 4th girl in tent #8, there is really no way of finding out. She is about the 4 or 5 person however that I have come across to make that claim.

    It makes me wonder if there would be a way to get a release of all girls, counselors, and staff names of who was on the camp property that night and where they were assigned. I know that it would be a huge amount of work but just maybe the key to solving this case is hidden somewhere within WHO was at Camp Scott that night. Hope that makes sense.

  17. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to mnegri1973 For This Useful Post:


  18. #85
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Jersey
    Posts
    208
    Does anyone know where I can watch the documentary on this case? I believe Johnny Cash narrated the film.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Nyla4 For This Useful Post:


  20. #86
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    457
    Okay has anyone checked out the camp counselors? Some things just seem odd to me. First, someone heard one scream. And than quiet. Makes me thinks it was someone that the girls trusted who did it. He said, BE QUIET OR I WILL TELL YOUR MOTHERS YOU'VE BEEN BAD, or something of that nature. Also, it would make sense that a counselor would know which tent did or did not have a counselor inside of it. Also, the fact that someone decided to pitch these girl's tents BY THE BRUSH FOR COVER, etc. It just seems illogical that someone was watching the camp the whole time, and happened to get lucky that the tents furthest away from the other tents and the one closest to the brush were also the tents that DID NOT HAVE A COUNSELOR inside of them. Was there a MAN on the trip? A MAN who was helping to pitch the tents, etc?

  21. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Laura_Bean For This Useful Post:


  22. #87
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    457
    Also we should talk to these girl's families. A court order to have their remains dug up would be needed to check for DNA evidence left on the girls. By checking the DNA against each girl who was raped that night, we could find out if all three were raped by the same man or if there was more than one who did this.

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to Laura_Bean For This Useful Post:


  24. #88
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    7,211
    Interesting question.
    I went to Girl Scout camp in 1984 and 1985. Our counselors were all female; however there were other staff (such as sailing instructors, rock climbing instructors, etc) who were male. We had 'platform' tents, similar to what the military uses when they set up a site for an extended period but not building a permanent building. We did not have a counselor in our tent those years- the counselors had their own tent that was a little ways away. I believe that was the case for all of the different 'color' groups. We had, I believe (memory failing me here) 6 campers per cabin. IMO, thinking back...it would have been entirely possible for someone(s) to enter the cabin in the middle of the night under the pretense of a prank- many counselors played pranks on US- not just the other way around- and therefore have three small girls under their control very quickly.
    IMHO.

  25. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Oriah For This Useful Post:


  26. #89
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    457
    Another thing I just found this posted
    http://boards.aetv.com/topic/Have-An...ders/100001959
    On this board listen guys

    Re: Girl Scout Murders Locust Grove 1977
    Jan 1, 2009 11:00 PM Report Abuse
    I was 7-1/2 years old in 1977, and a girl scout. Unfortunately I was too young to go to Camp Scott that year. My older sister, who was almost 11 was at the camp, when the tragedy happened.

    I remember this very well. I had to stay with my older brothers girlfriend while he drove to Locust Grove to find out what was going on, of course he was denied information. The parents of the all the girls were waiting on the busses to return to Tulsa (where I was from at the time) and the magic empire refused to tell the scouts parents' which children were killed. I thought this to be terribly traumatic just waiting, hoping and praying to see your daughter get off the bus.

    In July 1977 we moved to Locust Grove within oh 4 miles of the camp where the tragedy occured. It was very hard for my sister, as I recall. She told me, she was in the tent across from where the girls that were murdered stayed. She remembered talking to them and were goin to go outside and play after dark (which wasn't allowed) but those in my sisters tent couldn't find their shoes. I believe this is a miracle or their could easily have been more vitcims. She said she never heard anything during the night. The next morning all they were told to go swimming while they waited for the busses to return them to Tulsa. They were unaware of what had happened till after they returned.

    I grew up and graduated Locust Grove highschool in 1987 and lived in NE Oklahoma all of my life. This has affected my life and enhanced the belief that justice is overrated and ususally the sentence doesn't fit the crime and if it does the parole system gives them the opportunity to commit again.

    I so prayed when they retested the evidence something would have come out of that, but alas the hopes of all of us in Mayes County who remember this were very disappointed. Feel free to contact me.

    It had to be someone in the camp. These girls couldn't find their shoes to go outside after dark. Someone had to be thinking about this. Hide their shoes so no one comes out while the men are doing what they are doing. It may not have been a blessing after all. I think it is a huge coincidence that these girls were going to go out and play after dark and suddenly their shoes are gone so they don't go. Someone I think planned this VERY CAREFULLY.

  27. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Laura_Bean For This Useful Post:


  28. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    322
    Were the counselors, male and female not vetted before being hired? Were there no references and background checks done, to weed out the perverts,etc. Surely LE did this once the crime had been committed? LauraBean, I have relatives in neighboring Cherokee County; mighty pretty country up there in NE Oklahoma.

  29. The Following User Says Thank You to Stella For This Useful Post:


  30. #91
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    457
    In 1977? I doubt much if any background checks were done. As for the police, it sounds like they decided this escaped convict was the killer, and just went with it. People liked things easily solved back than, no offense, but it's true. Someone had to pay, convict went missing not long before it happened, and because he was native american welp he must have been hiding in the woods cause he could so... Easy case. Done, solved. And when he got off because the jury said there wasn't enough evidence, the police were off the hook by than. Now it's the jury's fault this bad man went free, right?

  31. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Laura_Bean For This Useful Post:


  32. #92
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    457
    I mean do you really believe this was all a big series of coincidences? let's look at them all stella and I mean it would have to be just the strangest set of coincidences to happen the way it did.

    The troop leader's daughter is supposed to be sleeping in the tent with the girls who were murdered but that day she gets pulled out and put in another tent. Strange coincidence. So she is spared death and being raped just for no other reason than someone decided to move her?

    Than, the girls in the tent with the daughter of the troop leader make plans with the girls from the death tent, (let's just call it that for now), and when the time comes to leave their shoes are mysteriously missing. Another real oddity.

    The death tent just happens to be set up furthur away from the other tents and right by some brush so the murderer has easy access to the girls? I mean that's just downright strange, and a little TOO coincidental when added with the other things, don't you think?

    And THAN, someone decides the girls in the death tent, who are closest to the brush and farthest away from the other tents, DON'T need a scout leader to be with those girls... Okay, can we say this is getting just way too crazy for words? How can all of these things happen on the same evening?

    The scream. One scream is heard. There are three girls in the tent, and only one brief scream, short and small enough that no one thinks twice about it? How could someone handle three girls and only one scream from all of them?

    So your telling me someone just decided to put those three girls alone in a tent next to lots of brush without a counselor and to move the leader's daughter out of the tent, and than the three girls from the other tent misplaced their shoes, ALL of them misplaced their shoes, and the other two girls were asleep and didn't wake up when they were raped and murdered but one happened to be awake and screamed and somehow did not awaken her friends thus only one small scream? It just seems too freaky.

    On a side note, in the boys camp which was not that far away, a man is now claiming he awakened in the middle of the night to three campers arguing and yelling and one begging the others not to tell cause he did not want to get in trouble. Is that another coincidence?

  33. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Laura_Bean For This Useful Post:


  34. #93
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    457



  35. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Laura_Bean For This Useful Post:


  36. #94
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    457
    An actual photo of the tent the girls were in when they were killed got it off a police station website

  37. The Following User Says Thank You to Laura_Bean For This Useful Post:


  38. #95
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    457


    Doris Milner




    Michelle Guse

    http://www.findmissingkids.com/2006m...LoriFarmer.gif

    Lori Lee Farmer

  39. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Laura_Bean For This Useful Post:


  40. #96
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    457


    Let's try that again - This is Lori Lee Farmer

  41. #97
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    457
    http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3D2%26hl%3Den


    An article I think may help has many details. Copied below or u can go to the website above.


    Camp Scott, a 610 acre summer camp for Girl Scouts and Brownies, was located three miles southeast of Locust Grove, Oklahoma. It was the site of the brutal bludgeoning deaths of three little Girl Scouts on June 13, 1977.

    Police arrested Gene LeRoy Hart, a Locust Grove native, and charged him with the murders of Lori Lee Farmer, Michelle Guse, and Doris Denise Milner.

    Operated by the Magic Empire Council of Girl Scouts since 1928, Camp Scott was perfect for boating, hiking, fishing, and camping. Girl Scouts had come from the Tulsa metropolitan area to attend the summer camp.

    Introduced as roommates on the first night of camp, Lori Lee Farmer, Michelle Guse, and Doris Denise Milner went to their tent, Kiowa tent # 8. Their tent was located at the outer edge of the wooded camp and isolated from the other tents. A last minute change left Tent # 8 one girl short.

    As night fell upon the camp, counselors checked to make sure that the one hundred Girl Scouts were in their assigned tents. As counselors walked away from the Kiowa tents, they saw a dim light in the woods which then disappeared. The counselors thought the light in the woods was some sort of a prank and went to their tent.

    At 2:00 a.m., counselors heard some Girl Scouts making noises and went to quieten the campers. Several Girl Scouts told them that a man looked into their tents and then walked away. Others said they heard someone outside their tent. Another Girl Scout heard a girl screaming "Momma! Momma!" at 2:00 a.m.

    Also, girls said a man grabbed them as they walked toward the bathroom. One girl became hysterical in the woods when she thought she saw a man. The counselors told the Girl Scouts to go to sleep, and went back to their own tent. They didn't look around for the strange man that several of the Girl Scouts had told them about.

    At 6:00 a.m. on Tuesday, June 13, Carla Sue Wilhite, a counselor at Camp Scott, went to take an early shower. She walked on the trail and noticed some things under a large tree. As she got closer, she noticed some sleeping bags. Then, she saw Doris Denise Milner's nude body (W & W 10). At that time, Carla couldn't see the other two dead bodies. The other bodies were still zipped up in their sleeping bags and naked from the waist down.

    At 6:30 a.m., Mayes County District Attorney Sidney Wise said all three of the small victims had died from blunt trauma to the back of the head and strangulation. All of the girls had lengths of cord around their necks and had been gagged and bound with two-inch wide black electrical tape. All of the victims had been sexually molested. Officers found their clothes a few feet from their bodies. The killer or killers carried the bodies approximately one hundred to one hundred and fifty yards from their tent and piled the young victims under a large tree.

    At the scene, detectives found a large roll of black duct tape and a red and white nine-volt flashlight near the bodies (W & W 19). The lens of the flashlight was partially covered to allow only a mere pencil of light through. Inside the death tent, detectives found the bloody footprint of waffle-type jungle boots. It appeared too large to be one of the victim's prints. Large pools of blood were found near the beds of two of the girls. The other girl could have been strangled to death after being pulled from the tent.

    Shortly after the discovery of the bodies of the Girl Scouts, Governor David Boren ordered a task force of Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agents and highway troopers to assist the Mayes County authorities in the investigation. Govenor Boren also arranged the use of three bloodhounds from Pennsylvania to help track down the killer or killers of the three little Girl Scouts.

    Three days after the brutal slayings, the hunt for evidence moved less than a mile west of Camp Scott to the 110 acre ranch of 58 year old Jack Shroff. The hunt moved because the bloodhounds lead the lawmen to his home and pond. Lawmen searched for a murder weapon and other possible evidence. During the search, officers found a roll of black duct tape and rope. The evidence matched the items found on the three little Girl Scouts. Several rocks, a tire tool, and a crowbar were discovered at the ranch, but the items were not connected with the slayings. Detectives found a footprint that matched the print in the death tent at Camp Scott. Mr. Shroff submitted to a lie detector test and passed.

    Camp director Barbara Day said she knew that the camp had received several threatening notes. The notes claimed that four little girls would be killed. Also, she said the camp had been burglarized several weeks before the camp opened, but she never considered the notes or the burglaries to be serious.

    The task force polygraphed many suspects and all passed. Also, Ben Woodward, ranger and custodian at Camp Scott, was polygraphed. He passed.

    On June 24, local, county, and sate lawmen launched a massive air and ground search. Although lawmen would not say how they linked their investigation to the prime suspect, they looked for a convicted rapist, Gene LeRoy Hart (Kelley). Mayes County authorities charged Hart with three separate counts of first degree murder in connection with the brutal slayings of Lori Lee Farmer, Michelle Guse, and Doris Denise Milner.

    Gene LeRoy Hart was convicted on October 14, 1966, on two counts of first degree rape and kidnapping. On March 16, 1969, Hart was paroled from Granite State Penitentiary. He was sent to McAlester State Penitentiary where he would serve forty to one hundred and forty years on a charge of rape, two counts of kidnapping, and two counts of burglary.

    In 1973, Gene LeRoy Hart and two other prisoners hacksawed their way out of the Mayes County Jail. Lawmen found the other two prisoners, but Hart, a Locust Grove native, had remained free since the jail break. Even though he was a convicted rapist, no one looked for him. While at the Mayes County Jail, Hart had been awaiting a postconviction hearing.

    On June 24, 1977, Locust Grove natives spotted a man who resembled Hart running from a cave near where the three Girl Scouts had been slain. He was supposedly armed with a 20-gauge shotgun and a .22 caliber rifle. He had supposedly stolen these guns from Jack Shroff's farm.

    At the cave, local, county, and state lawmen searched for Gene LeRoy Hart. The lawmen searching in the wooded area had thousands of ticks crawling on them. When they got inside the cave, lawmen found no ticks. The lawmen's theory was that Hart had used Indian medicine to ward them off.

    On a cave wall, lawmen found a written message. It said that the person who killed the Girl Scouts had been living in the cave since the murders. The person who wrote the message called the lawmen fools.

  42. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Laura_Bean For This Useful Post:


  43. #98
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    7,211
    Quote Originally Posted by Laura_Bean View Post


    This is EXACTLY the way I recall our girl scout camp tents in 1983/84/85.
    The way I was trying to describe as platform tents of the military-type when they are not set up for an extended period of time, but not a short period of time either. The platforms remain- the canvas can go up or down.

    Thank you, Laura Bean- although now I have the chills.

  44. #99
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    7,211
    Question for anyone who may have this information (and apologies in advance for it's horrific factor):

    Do we know whether or not these children were sexually assaulted before or after death? From all of the articles I have read it would appear that possibly two were sexually assaulted after death, and one while alive. Or perhaps all after death. IMHO- major info and indicator of the type of person(s) who committed this heinous crime.

  45. #100
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    7,211

    Thread Title change?

    Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this question- newbie here, not sure on this type of stuff- but I believe the girls were 8, 9, and 10 years old. Not 7, 8 and 9 years old.. Is this correct? If so- is there a way to correct that in the thread title?

Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. MN MN - Michelle Meiser, 22, St. Paul, 11 March 1977
    By Odyssey in forum 1970's Missing
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-23-2013, 03:26 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-24-2013, 05:19 AM
  3. New DNA Testing Done In 1977 Girl Scout Murder Case
    By SeriouslySearching in forum Crimes in the News
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 07-18-2008, 09:15 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •