TWO elderly women as witnesses to Kate's demeanor

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Morag

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We've known something about Mrs. Fenn's observations for some time. When I was rereading some of colomom's translations from the Portuguese press (and brava to Heather for her diligence), I came across the following:

http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia...dCanal=181&p=0
The deposition of the senior British citizen (Pamela Fenn), who occupied an apartment on the floor above the one that was used by the McCanns, also indicates that Kate sometimes became violent. She lost control, and it was easy to hear the girl’s screams, calling out for her father. Another witness, also a British citizen, refers the same scenario. Kate seemed to have moments of aggression towards her children, while the father, although more absent, revealed more emotional control.
Click to expand...

and this:
http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia...dCanal=181&p=0
The second witness is another elderly woman, who says she saw Kate behaving in a way that raised suspicions about her performance.
Click to expand...
So now we have two British women who are saying that Kate was violent.

I am wondering if the second woman is Dianne Webster (although from her picture, she's not what I would describe as elderly). I've always thought that she would be the witness most likely to tell the whole truth and nothing but. Some thought it odd that she just remained at the table when everyone else took up the Maddie's missing! cry. She likely thought it just another occasion when the McCanns failed to control their children, and that they would find her and return to the table within minutes. Kate's hysterics did not surprise her-'behaving in a way that raised suspicions about her performance.' Is the word performance significant, or just a slightly skewed translation?
And, Oh, would I love to see the pictures she took of the Tapas group that night. There be clues there (National Talk Like a Pirate Day was this week).
 
Morag said:
We've known something about Mrs. Fenn's observations for some time. When I was rereading some of colomom's translations from the Portuguese press (and brava to Heather for her diligence), I came across the following:

http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia...dCanal=181&p=0


and this:
http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia...dCanal=181&p=0
So now we have two British women who are saying that Kate was violent.

I am wondering if the second woman is Dianne Webster (although from her picture, she's not what I would describe as elderly). I've always thought that she would be the witness most likely to tell the whole truth and nothing but. Some thought it odd that she just remained at the table when everyone else took up the Maddie's missing! cry. She likely thought it just another occasion when the McCanns failed to control their children, and that they would find her and return to the table within minutes. Kate's hysterics did not surprise her-'behaving in a way that raised suspicions about her performance.' Is the word performance significant, or just a slightly skewed translation?
And, Oh, would I love to see the pictures she took of the Tapas group that night. There be clues there (National Talk Like a Pirate Day was this week).
Click to expand...
Unfortunately your links didn't work for me.

Were these reported witness statements a "fact" or just rumors reported by our famous "source" from within the PLE.
Boy does he get around!!
 
Morag said:
We've known something about Mrs. Fenn's observations for some time. When I was rereading some of colomom's translations from the Portuguese press (and brava to Heather for her diligence), I came across the following:

http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia...dCanal=181&p=0


and this:
http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia...dCanal=181&p=0
So now we have two British women who are saying that Kate was violent.

I am wondering if the second woman is Dianne Webster (although from her picture, she's not what I would describe as elderly). I've always thought that she would be the witness most likely to tell the whole truth and nothing but. Some thought it odd that she just remained at the table when everyone else took up the Maddie's missing! cry. She likely thought it just another occasion when the McCanns failed to control their children, and that they would find her and return to the table within minutes. Kate's hysterics did not surprise her-'behaving in a way that raised suspicions about her performance.' Is the word performance significant, or just a slightly skewed translation?
And, Oh, would I love to see the pictures she took of the Tapas group that night. There be clues there (National Talk Like a Pirate Day was this week).
Click to expand...
The links were in a different language and I could not see any pictures with a woman that could have been the witness you mentioned.
 
Mrs Fenn has already gone out in the Media saying that she didn't hear anything at all. Can't find the link now, but it's been in the news some days ago.
 
april4sky said:
Unfortunately your links didn't work for me.

Were these reported witness statements a "fact" or just rumors reported by our famous "source" from within the PLE.
Boy does he get around!!
Click to expand...

Sorry about the links- I was just moving them over from the Portuguese press thread. You should be able to find the whole story on that thread. I was traveling when most of those stories were printed. When I read over them, I saw a lot of information that has not been discussed.

Mrs Fenn has already gone out in the Media saying that she didn't hear anything at all. Can't find the link now, but it's been in the news some days ago.
Click to expand...

Yes, I saw that, but she was seemingly telling the media to leave her alone as she can't speak out.
 
I have a some more random thoughts here. I am not sure if I am posting in on the appropriate thread, but no thread here seems to stay on topic, so I'll go for this one.

It has been stated that the McCann's did not use the baby listening service, correct ?

Did any of the others in their party use the service ?

Weren't there more children in the party ?

Yet, the hotel/resort offered this service ? I guess my random thought comes in here. If there were Nanny's listening for other children, you would think one of them would have heard Maddy. I would think that if you are a Nanny, and you heard a child crying out you would still check on it, even if it is not your "job" that night. Thoughts ?
 
IF those reports are true and they saw Kate behaving "aggressive", I would like to know what EXACTLY they saw. There is a big difference between being aggressive and violent. I want to believe if they really saw her doing something to the kids, they would have called the police immediately.
 
From what I've gathered if they are witnesses they aren't allowed to speak with the media because of the secrecy laws there so who knows where the media came up with these accounts. Mrs. Fenn's daughter was also supposed to have made statements to the media but that may have been about the burglary and not covered under the secrecy law for the McCann case and she wouldn't be considered a witness. I did read one report before the one where Mrs. Fenn claimed she didn't say that where it did say she didn't know anything was going on until the initial search started and she offered to call police. In those reports it was where they were saying Kate said the police were already called but there was a time discrepancy.
 
Morag said:
Yes, I saw that, but she was seemingly telling the media to leave her alone as she can't speak out.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is my take on it too. She wants the media to leave her alone since, by law, she can't disclose anything.
 
Edwards20 said:
I have a some more random thoughts here. I am not sure if I am posting in on the appropriate thread, but no thread here seems to stay on topic, so I'll go for this one.

It has been stated that the McCann's did not use the baby listening service, correct ?

Did any of the others in their party use the service ?

Weren't there more children in the party ?

Yet, the hotel/resort offered this service ? I guess my random thought comes in here. If there were Nanny's listening for other children, you would think one of them would have heard Maddy. I would think that if you are a Nanny, and you heard a child crying out you would still check on it, even if it is not your "job" that night. Thoughts ?
Click to expand...
I read somewhere that the Paynes, David and Fiona, supposedly brought their own baby listening device from home. They have been described as the only parents among the 4 couples who had some kind of child-minding in place.
 
Maryam said:
Mrs Fenn has already gone out in the Media saying that she didn't hear anything at all. Can't find the link now, but it's been in the news some days ago.
Click to expand...

Mrs. Fenn has not gone out in the media disclaiming her earlier statements. Mrs. Fenn has denied additional words and different words ascribed to her by the media. While I don't have the link at hand at the moment, I'm sure they are in the link thread. If you reread it, you will see Mrs. Fenn quoting as saying she did NOT complain about the parents "yelling and screaming." This has nothing to do with hearing Maddie crying for an hour and a half nor any of the other information she "supposedly" gave to the police.

Maryann - my response is directed at you personally, :) just the repeated thought that Mrs. Fenn has contridicted herself. It is my opinion that to date, we have not seen anything that says Mrs. Fenn has recalled or contridicted her "actual" statements to the police.

Salem
 
Salem said:
Mrs. Fenn has not gone out in the media disclaiming her earlier statements. Mrs. Fenn has denied additional words and different words ascribed to her by the media. While I don't have the link at hand at the moment, I'm sure they are in the link thread. If you reread it, you will see Mrs. Fenn quoting as saying she did NOT complain about the parents "yelling and screaming." This has nothing to do with hearing Maddie crying for an hour and a half nor any of the other information she "supposedly" gave to the police.

Maryann - my response is directed at you personally, :) just the repeated thought that Mrs. Fenn has contridicted herself. It is my opinion that to date, we have not seen anything that says Mrs. Fenn has recalled or contridicted her "actual" statements to the police.

Salem
Click to expand...

Have you seen her written statements to the police ? does anyone know exactly what she has said to the police as an official statement - sorry to be blunt but I see contradicting statements every day about what she did or didnt say
 
There was information from Mrs. Fenn (originally called Mrs. Senn here at WS before we knew her real identity) from several sources starting in early August. IMO, the contradicting statements are the result of McCann spin trying to muddy the waters on what happened to their children while in Portugal.

While I'm not willing to commit to whether she witnessed violence on Kate's part towards Madeleine, I firmly believe she heard her crying for her father on May 1, observed the Tapas group looking for her two nights later and had her offer of telephoning the police rebuffed by KM.
 
CaliKid said:
There was information from Mrs. Fenn (originally called Mrs. Senn here at WS before we knew her real identity) from several sources starting in early August. IMO, the contradicting statements are the result of McCann spin trying to muddy the waters on what happened to their children while in Portugal.

While I'm not willing to commit to whether she witnessed violence on Kate's part towards Madeleine, I firmly believe she heard her crying for her father on May 1, observed the Tapas group looking for her two nights later and had her offer of telephoning the police rebuffed by KM.
Click to expand...

Me, too, Calikid, it was in far too many of the real newspapers for me to find it questionable. I agree, the story of "violence" might be overstated or completely untrue, but the crying and the phone call offer ring true.
 
I thought that the rejection of the offer of calling LE was because they thought that a Portuguese speaking person had already placed the call?? Possibly just an assumption on my part......
 
Brefie said:
I thought that the rejection of the offer of calling LE was because they thought that a Portuguese speaking person had already placed the call?? Possibly just an assumption on my part......
Click to expand...
Brefie this is how I remember it too.
 
Maryam - my earlier post was supposed to "this is NOT directed" to you personally. Apparently, I can't type very well early in the morning.:blushing:

Salem
 
CaliKid said:
I read somewhere that the Paynes, David and Fiona, supposedly brought their own baby listening device from home. They have been described as the only parents among the 4 couples who had some kind of child-minding in place.
Click to expand...

CaliKid, are we thinking something comprable to our baby monitors here ?
Wonder what their range would be.
 
Edwards20 said:
CaliKid, are we thinking something comprable to our baby monitors here ?
Wonder what their range would be.
Click to expand...

There are several ways that a hotel might offer a baby listening service. One is for a member of staff to patrol the corridors or apartment complex and listen at doors. Another is for the parents to leave their telephone off the hook and the hotel reception can listen in. The baby monitors which we use at home might be used in a small establishment but they have a limited range and don't work well through thick walls (which many european hotels may have).

We stopped using our baby monitor when we started picking up a neighbour's signal. We switched on our monitor and could hear people talking to their children. We suspect it was a family who live round the corner as they were the nearest with young children.
 
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