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  1. #1
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    this is my opion of course

    I know that the case of the Ramsey child is old and has been hashed to death, there are a lot of people who have already formed the opinion that the parents did it. Partner ship in a crime always has a weak point in it, there has to be someone in charge, to keep the weak one from breaking down and confessing. If it was a joint venture there has to be a lot of hard thinking after the crime or accident, imagine one of the parents after the shock of the death, it is hard to do if it is the first time, to sit down and write a lengthily ransom note, there has to be a lot of emotions running through the parent to keep a clear head and concentrate on making deliberate errors in spelling, quoting lines from different movies that seems kind of odd for the Ramsey’s to be watching those kind of films. The zodiac killer quoted from his favorite movie in his lengthy coded script. But he was a serious killer, no emotions ran through him, in a sadist situation were the male keeps his wife and companion in crime, isolated from family and friends to create a zombie like partner for his pleasure that was completely reliant on him. Does John sound like that kind of person? His wife was outgoing and involved in pageants with her daughter, she does not sound like a person whom was being controlled by her husband. How weak was she not to turn her husband in for murder or molestation of their daughter. Looks like a strong team to me, I know the lawyer thing turned everybody off about them, but look at it this way, you and I know that when a crime like this is in the news, family and relatives are always the first suspects, no matter how much grief that I’m in, you can bet that I need protection from media and over zealous cops and detectives. I’m not writing this to make the Ramsey’s look innocent but to have a serious conversation with someone on this site that will and can think this out step by step, someone that had done reading on psychopaths, sociopath, there has to be a lot of soul searching into the working of a killer, serious questions it is not a contest to see whom is the smartest or how much you can joke about what color was the shoes the detective was wearing, but a serious slow and meticulous thought process, is there anyone interested in this enough to spend the time and energy? I do not believe that because it has not been solved that it cannot be solved.



    _______________
    IMO

  2. #2
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    You seem to be under the assumption that JonBenet's death was due to a purposeful killing. That is not what most believe and not what the evidence indicates. This was most likely a tragic "accident" that led to her death.
    Accident in the sense that the goal was NOT for her to die or even be seriously wounded - but an accident in the sense that injury was impulsively inflicted on JonBenet in a moment or flash of RAGE.
    The perp then panicked at what had just occured - thought JonBenet was already dead from the head blow, needed to have her body indicate something VISIBLE as to "why" she lay dead - and came up with a cord around her neck to suggest she was strangled to death. Little did the perp/stager know that there was indeed a tiny speck of life left in little JonBenet and the tightening of the cord simply hurried the inevitable. Leaving minor tell-tale marks of asphyxiation.
    This "strangling" was not violent as usually seen. There was no damage to the strap muscles in her neck and no damage to the hydoid bone - as is almost always the case.
    To further go along with this aspect of the crime as being staging and not purposeful - is the re-dressing, wiping down and bundling like a baby of the body. And placed on a blanket. Actions taken by someone who cared and had remorse over what had happened.

    JonBenet had dust on the bottom of her feet. She obviously must have walked in that basement room that night.
    The blow to the head logically would have taken place as she was standing.
    It would have been extremely awkward - and would make no sense - for the perp to choose that kind of action (swinging an object against the side of her head) while she is laying down on the floor.
    And she could not have been standing had she been strangled first OR "stun-gunned."

    I believe it is possible that JonBenet was being molested, fought back - possibly running away (giving reason for the dust on her bare feet) - was struck by the perp in the head rendering her unconscious (or to the perp/stagers "dead") and the staging began to cover it all up.
    I think it is possible that the one who started the whole affair was her older brother Burke - and the parents stepped in and have taken over to this day covering it all up.
    Their actions - and lack of certain actions - make this scenario the most likely given the evidence we know.

    One curious aspect of the crime that I believe needs more pondering but is an important clue - is the fact that JonBenet's arms were RAISED above her head when she died and there was no attempt to lower them by the stager.
    Either - she was in rigor mortis when the stager stumbled upon her body, or
    this was a decision by the stager when her hands were "loosely" (no purpose other than staging) tied by the cord.
    This post is my opinion.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by K777angel
    One curious aspect of the crime that I believe needs more pondering but is an important clue - is the fact that JonBenet's arms were RAISED above her head when she died and there was no attempt to lower them by the stager.
    Either - she was in rigor mortis when the stager stumbled upon her body, or
    this was a decision by the stager when her hands were "loosely" (no purpose other than staging) tied by the cord.
    Which always makes me think of the comment by John Walsh when he said something like "....after John [Ramsey] cut her down..."

    IMO

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICU
    I’m not writing this to make the Ramsey’s look innocent but to have a serious conversation with someone on this site that will and can think this out step by step, someone that had done reading on psychopaths, sociopath, there has to be a lot of soul searching into the working of a killer, serious questions it is not a contest to see whom is the smartest or how much you can joke about what color was the shoes the detective was wearing, but a serious slow and meticulous thought process, is there anyone interested in this enough to spend the time and energy?IMO
    Sounds like a call for BrotherMoon.

    IMO

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by Nehemiah
    Which always makes me think of the comment by John Walsh when he said something like "....after John [Ramsey] cut her down..."
    As much as I adore John Walsh and admire what he does, I've never heard that he's been privy to any more information on the JBR case than we are. Also, I've never heard that John Ramsey had a knife or scissors with him with which he could have cut JonBenet down.

    I think Walsh might have heard a rumor that JonBenet was hanged by the neck or by the wrists and assumed it was true, or he reached the conclusion on his own, because the wrist cords would have been useless to restrain JonBenet (for one thing, her wrists were tied in front of her), and because the ligature has often been described as a noose.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah
    Sounds like a call for BrotherMoon.

    IMO
    I'm here to help.

    I think it was deliberate. There was no lasceration on the head, no external swelling but petechial hemorrhaging, ergo, strangulation first, head blow second. Too many aspects of the staging do not make sense in terms of staging for police, ergo, staging for viewing by the perp.

    There are many, many concurrences (not coincidences) between the case and literature Patsy is known to have been associated with. The rn is full of symbolism known only to the writer. Many aspects of the staging are symbolic. DOI is full of symbolic and mythic references.

    I think the event was carried out in a state of psychosis, which often has a mythic nature. Patsy believes she was saved from death by an interventionist super being, and that her daughter is now with that God in a non-dimensional, eternal realm awaiting her mother's arrival. Both are irrational conclusions, the tip of the psychotic iceberg. This was a one time event with the goal being achieved; JonBenet is in heaven, in a state of perfection and Patsy has that link and that hope. This ain't the first time this has been done and it won't be the last.

    I'm here to answer the call.
    Last edited by BrotherMoon; 03-04-2004 at 03:25 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy
    and because the ligature has often been described as a noose.
    But it was not constructed like a noose, it did not slip, it held until it was cut off. It had two knots. Ivy, look up knots in a dictionary.

  8. #8
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    BrotherMoon, did I say I thought it was a noose? NO. I said it has often been described as a noose. I should have clarified by adding "in the press and on Internet forums." No way was the device a noose, imo.

    IMO

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy
    BrotherMoon, did I say I thought it was a noose? NO. I said it has often been described as a noose. I should have clarified by adding "in the press and on Internet forums." No way was the device a noose, imo.

    IMO
    Have you seen the autopsy photos?



    _______________
    IMO

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrotherMoon
    But it was not constructed like a noose, it did not slip, it held until it was cut off. It had two knots. Ivy, look up knots in a dictionary.


    Have you seen the autopsy photos?



    _______________
    IMO


  11. #11
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    Does anyone know if the Mother of the child was being treated for
    Bipolar Disorder?


    _______________
    IMO

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICU
    Partner ship in a crime always has a weak point in it, there has to be someone in charge, to keep the weak one from breaking down and confessing. If it was a joint venture there has to be a lot of hard thinking after the crime or accident...
    Never underestimate the power of self-preservation. Gives ordinary people superhuman strength.

    Besides, weaknesses are considerably fortified when a perp has clout and means and can avoid/control LE access to him/herself. Hiding behind lawyers gives a perp plenty of time and space to pull him/herself together.

    Does John sound like that kind of person? His wife was outgoing and involved in pageants with her daughter, she does not sound like a person whom was being controlled by her husband. How weak was she not to turn her husband in for murder or molestation of their daughter. Looks like a strong team to me...
    Exactly. I think you answered your own point. Furthermore, if two perps are equally invested in self-preservation (e.g. one is the molester, one is the killer), both would be sufficiently motivated to keep it together and wouldn't need controlling by the other.

    I’m not writing this to make the Ramsey’s look innocent but to have a serious conversation with someone on this site that will and can think this out step by step, someone that had done reading on psychopaths, sociopath, there has to be a lot of soul searching into the working of a killer, serious questions...
    Add "narcissists" and various "personality disorders" to the list, as well as research on incest and expert interpretation of physical/medical evidence and crime scenes.

    Welcome ICU
    The intruder is innocent! JMO

  13. #13
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    Aug 2003
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    I think the knot at the neck was a slip knot that formed a noose, and at one time gently slid to adjust the tightness A/O looseness (diameter) of the noose.

    IMO the noose was being used for non-consensual EA on JonBenet. However, after the perp violently pulled on the stick as if he were trying to start up a cantankerous lawn mower, the slip knot collapsed to pull JonBenet's hair into it to form a tight double knot that couldn't be undone.

    The opposite end (the handle end) of the cord was wrapped twice around the neck and close to the head, thus also pulling hair into that once bulky and loosely tied knot on the stick at the same time the perp violently yanked on the handle. Both knots (one at the neck and the other on the stick) tightened simultaneouslly -- pulling hair into them.

    JMO

  14. #14
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    Feb 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by K777angel
    You seem to be under the assumption that JonBenet's death was due to a purposeful killing. That is not what most believe and not what the evidence indicates. This was most likely a tragic "accident" that led to her death.
    Accident in the sense that the goal was NOT for her to die or even be seriously wounded - but an accident in the sense that injury was impulsively inflicted on JonBenet in a moment or flash of RAGE.
    The perp then panicked at what had just occured - thought JonBenet was already dead from the head blow, needed to have her body indicate something VISIBLE as to "why" she lay dead - and came up with a cord around her neck to suggest she was strangled to death. Little did the perp/stager know that there was indeed a tiny speck of life left in little JonBenet and the tightening of the cord simply hurried the inevitable. Leaving minor tell-tale marks of asphyxiation.
    This "strangling" was not violent as usually seen. There was no damage to the strap muscles in her neck and no damage to the hydoid bone - as is almost always the case.
    To further go along with this aspect of the crime as being staging and not purposeful - is the re-dressing, wiping down and bundling like a baby of the body. And placed on a blanket. Actions taken by someone who cared and had remorse over what had happened.

    JonBenet had dust on the bottom of her feet. She obviously must have walked in that basement room that night.
    The blow to the head logically would have taken place as she was standing.
    It would have been extremely awkward - and would make no sense - for the perp to choose that kind of action (swinging an object against the side of her head) while she is laying down on the floor.
    And she could not have been standing had she been strangled first OR "stun-gunned."

    I believe it is possible that JonBenet was being molested, fought back - possibly running away (giving reason for the dust on her bare feet) - was struck by the perp in the head rendering her unconscious (or to the perp/stagers "dead") and the staging began to cover it all up.
    I think it is possible that the one who started the whole affair was her older brother Burke - and the parents stepped in and have taken over to this day covering it all up.
    Their actions - and lack of certain actions - make this scenario the most likely given the evidence we know.

    One curious aspect of the crime that I believe needs more pondering but is an important clue - is the fact that JonBenet's arms were RAISED above her head when she died and there was no attempt to lower them by the stager.
    Either - she was in rigor mortis when the stager stumbled upon her body, or
    this was a decision by the stager when her hands were "loosely" (no purpose other than staging) tied by the cord.
    The problem with a blow to the head before strangulation is that it does not leave petechial hemorrhaging. It seems to me that you have the idea that it was an accident, what kind of accident would cause someone to fake a murder, If you are married and have kids, one of the kids accidentally strangles the other one, do you think that it would be logical to bludgeon the dead child? And could you do that? In the case of Lizzy Borden even when she struck the step mother on the back of the head, there was really not that much blood, sometimes the head will not bleed profusely from a blunt instrument.


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICU
    The problem with a blow to the head before strangulation is that it does not leave petechial hemorrhaging.
    _______________
    IMO

    Sure it could. If she was not yet dead after the head blow, and the cord was tightened around her neck it would cause the petechial hemorrages that she had on her body.

    It makes more sense that it happened this way than the other way around.
    If you believe that she was strangled first - obviously she could not be "standing up" when the head blow was delivered. And it makes no sense to consider that the perp chose to - or was even ABLE to - swing that object and strike her (while she is lying down) on her head where contact was made.

    I think the head blow came first, her heart was barely beating (thus the small amount of bleeding in the brain) - but beating just enough to cause the petechial hemorraging found after the cord was tightened. The perp/stager very possibly thought she was already dead after the head blow and therefore did not believe any more "harm" was really being done to her by the cord.
    This post is my opinion.

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