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  1. #1
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    Regarding the heart...

    this has probably been posted before,but I thought it worth a repeat lately,the following is from here (there is also info on the pineapple,TOD and other evidence):www.geocities.com/Area51/nebula/9337/profile.html:




    This is the photo circulated on the internet by the Boulder Investigation Team. If the investigators were so anxious to find the source of the Bear, why did they wait so long to ask the help of the public. I'll never understand that. After their request was widely posted they had their information in days. The photo remained on an obscure web site for months with no results. WHY DID PATSY RAMSEY TURN WHITE WHEN SHE WAS SHOWN A PHOTO OF THE SANTA BEAR PICTURED ABOVE?
    Go back and look carefully at the left paw of the bear. It's the paw with the Santa sleeve pulled up to completely expose the paw.
    There was a reason for that.
    If you will notice, there is a "white section" that shows that a portion of the photo has been deleted. That portion of the photo showed a "heart" drawn on the paw of that bear. Of course she would turn "white" and deny ever seeing the bear or drawing a heart on it's paw. The information about the heart on the paw of the bear is my intuitive opinion. I "know" it's there. There is also a deleted section of the photo at the ear on the same side of the photo.
    Can the police find the red marker or pen that drew that heart on the palm of the paw? I hope so.
    PATSY RAMSEY DENIES ANY KNOWLEDGE OF THE BEAR OR HOW IT CAME TO REST ON A BED IN JONBENET'S ROOM.
    The Ramsey housekeeper has been questioned and denies seeing the bear at the Ramsey home.
    BUT WAIT
    The obscure web site I discussed originates in Michigan, the site of the Ramsey vacation home. I believe the bear was located at the Michigan home and not the Boulder house. If this is true the housekeeper at the Boulder residence would not have seen it.

    All types of pens and markers are mentioned on the Warrant Evidence Lists. The color black is mentioned in reference to some writing utensils but the color red is not mentioned in any description of pens or markers.
    Early on I had the impression that a bear was involved in the case but my impression was that the bear was used as a Christmas decoration on the staircase. I also "knew" that the Santa Suit was important, but I thought it was the one in the basement and had something to do with the duct tape.

    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  2. #2
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    the above link isn't going to the same page on the site,here's the rest from it:

    FORENSIC SCIENCE AND THE MURDER OF JONBENET RAMSEY

    More Than You Wanted To Know First let me say that I have an interest in Forensic Science. I am not trained in Forensic Science. The opinions and conclusions you see here are those of a lay person. The quotes you read here will be quotes from experts in their field. All information taken from my research will be identified.
    Thus far in the JonBenet Ramsey Murder investigation we have heard the name of Dr. Henry Lee time and again in connection with the examination of the forensic evidence collected for analysis in the JonBenet Ramsey Murder.
    Is Dr. Lee the "be all" and "end all" of forensic science? There are some who think not!
    What follows is a quote from Richard Saferstein in his book CRIMINALISTICS
    An Interduction to Forensic Science

    "There perhaps is no better example of the phenomenon of people seeing what they expect to see working to the prosecution's very definite disadvantage than the situation with one of the defense's expert witnesses, Dr. Henry Lee, director of the Connecticut State Forensic Science Laboratory, is reputed to be the preeminent dean of American forensic scientists, the "top forensic sleuth", as it were. But I think we all know by now how suspect reputations can be, and if Lee's testimony in the Simpson case is any indication at all of his abilities, he is nothing short of incompetent. At best, he's an example of how Mark Twain once described an expert: "Just some guy from out of town."
    (end quote)

    I quote from Dr. Saferstein because we are going to discuss "shoe prints". Dr. Saferstein is at odds with Dr. Lee in regards to Dr. Lee's court testimony regarding shoeprints found at the Simpson crime scene.
    THE RAMSEY CRIME SCENE SHOE PRINTS
    It is generally believed that two unidentified shoe prints where found at the Ramsey crime scene. One print what found inside the "body room", and another unidentified print is said to have been found outside the house near the black iron grate over the basement window area. We hear that these two prints are from different brands of shoes. I have no information as to the suggested size of the foot that made the prints or any right or left description of the prints.
    Press reports tell us that the police identified the manufacturer of each of the shoes or boots that made the prints.

    Why Do I Believe The Ramseys DON'T WANT THE PRINTS IDENTIFIED?
    This question brings a short and simple answer. As long as the prints cannot be matched to a known person, there will always be an "unknown" person attached to the shoe prints. It's strange that the person most important to the Ramsey family is an unknown and unidentified person. The Ramseys want to keep it that way. Those "unidentified shoe prints" are now part of the Ramsey family "saving grace"....AND THEY HAVE TRIED TO KEEP IT THAT WAY!
    HOW?
    There is much more "hard" information and speculation than I will highlight here. But I want to lay some background on the possible source of the one of the unidentified shoe prints that I believe the Ramsey Family "forgot" to mention to the Boulder Police Department. I must make the comment that it is very easy to "withhold" important information from a police department when you refuse to speak with them. Yes we know they did speak with them early on, but as the police department's ongoing investigation brought more and more questions that could only be answered by the Ramseys, they chose to be "unavailable".
    We now have good reason to believe that the Ramsey family was away from the house prior to the Thanksgiving Holiday. During the time that they were away from home they arranged for a kitchen remodel. Their condition to the contractor was that the work be completed before Thanksgiving.
    That's understandable. It is likely that they would be having Thanksgiving dinner guest and the kitchen would be bright and new.
    I have reason to believe that the Ramsey family NEVER told the Boulder Police Department that contractors were in and out of the house during that remodel period. They knew if they revealed that information the contractors would be contacted by Boulder Police.
    HEAVEN FORBID THAT ONE OR BOTH OF THOSE PRINTS COULD BE MATCHED TO A KNOWN PERSON.


    HOW DID I FIND OUT ABOUT THE CONTRACTORS BEFORE THE POLICE??
    The Ramseys weren't talking, but others were.
    Mr. T.J.Colfax, (alias) is now incarcerated in the Boulder County Jail. He came into a position to be in contact with a person who is interested in the Ramsey murder and posted information and opinion on a JonBenet Ramsey discussion forum.
    Mr. "Colfax" met an inmate in the Boulder County Jail. I will not mention the name here. The inmate told Mr. Colfax that he was one of the persons who had worked on the Ramsey kitchen during the month of November prior to the murder.

    The house water supply was disconnected during this work, and it is reported that the construction people went down into the Ramsey basement and retrieved water from the water heater. It's also possible that they visited other areas of the basement where paint and tools were stored.
    DID ONE OF THESE WORKERS LEAVE THE HOUSE SHOE PRINT?
    This information was unknown to the police (as far as I know) until recently. I believe this because immediately after the information was posted on the internet, the Boulder Police Department visited Mr. Colfax and his information source in the Boulder County Jail with questions regarding the remodel, when it occurred, and who was at the house. The Ramsey family had this information, and never turned it over to the police. Those two prints may have led to the killer.
    The Ramseys say they are desperate to find the killer.
    The ramseys don"t want the prints investigated and the person who wore the shoes cleared. They cannot afford to lose the mysterious unidentified intruder with the "shoe prints".
    The owner/s of the shoe/s represent a great prize to the police department, and Salvation to the Ramseys as long as the wearer is unidentified.
    Sue Bennett AKA "Jameson" claims to have visited the Ramsey home and inspected the house and basement. "Jameson" reports that the shoe print found in the body room was captured in an area with white mold on the cement floor. The description given by "Jameson" of the "mold" reminds me of the small white circles of a white "cotton candy" like substance from spiders that you sometimes find on objects that have long been undisturbed.
    If the disturbed material was mold, I believe the print would have been a partial print, and if it was from spider web substance the same condition would apply.
    I have speculated that the enclosed windowless room may have been covered with dust. The more I thought about this the more I came to realize that the dust may not have been as great as I thought since there was no window to the area and the door was said to have been kept closed.
    There is another important aspect of the "shoe print" that must be considered. Photos show that the hall that leads to the cement room is carpeted and the room itself is bare cement.
    It seems logical to me that anyone walking down that hall to the cement room would have left most of the residue from their shoes on the carpet in the remainder of the basement and adjacent hall. Did the shoe leave residue in the cement room from something that was transferred in the room itself?
    Could a shoe contain residue that failed to transfer to an area of carpet near a window or the basement stairs and retain enough of that residue to deposit it on the cement floor of the death room? That doesn't make much sense to me. It seems more logical that the transfer carried by the shoe came from within the room itself.
    WE MUST REMEMBER THAT IF AN INTRUDER LEFT THE PRINTS THEY WERE DEPOSITED IN THAT ROOM AFTER THE KILLER ENTERED AND WALKED THROUGH A CARPETED HOUSE BEFORE JONBENET WAS PLACED ON THE CEMENT FLOOR.
    We do know that the Ramsey decorated artificial Christmas trees were kept in that room along with paint cans, boxes, window screens, a fireplace poker, and a rug covering a floor safe.
    There must have been activity in the room when the summer screens were removed from the windows and placed there. There was activity in the room when the housekeeper removed the artificial trees to the upper floors of the house for the Christmas season. It's possible that the contractors entered the room when they remodeled the Ramsey kitchen.
    It's interesting to me that there has been much talk about how many Ramsey house keys may have been floating around Boulder, but no mention was ever made of the kitchen remodel by the parents.
    Contrary to popular belief the actual remaining Christmas decorations were kept in a separate room at the opposite end of the basement maze.
    BUT LET'S GET BACK TO THE SHOE PRINTS
    HAVE THE POLICE REACHED A DEAD END REGARDING THE PRINTS?

    I DON'T THINK SO
    BACK TO DR. SAFERSTEIN
    "If an impression is encountered on a surface that cannot be submitted to the laboratory, the investigator may be able to preserve the print in a manner that is analogous to lifting a fingerprint. This is espically true of impressions made in light deposits of dust or dirt.
    Here, it is desirable that a lifting material large enough to lift the entire impression be used. One product that is excellent for lifting impressions, called "handprint," is available from the Kinderprint Co.,Martinez, California. Carefully place the lifting material over the entire impression. Use a fingerprint roller to eliminate any air pockets before lifting the impression off the surface.
    Another and more exotic aproach to lifting and preserving dust impressions involves the use of a portable electrostatic lifting device known as Pathfinder. The principle employed is similar to creating an electrostatic charge on a comb and using the comb to lift small pieces of tissue paper. A mylar sheet of film is placed on top ot the dust mark, and the film is pressed against the impression with the aid of a roller. The high-voltage electrode of the Pathfinder is then placed in contact with the film while the Pathfinder's earth electrodes are placed against a metal plate.
    A charge difference develops between the mylar film and the surface below the dust mark so that the dust is attached to the lifting film. In this manner, dust prints off chairs, walls, and floors and the slide can be transferred to the mylar film."
    (end quote)

    But the good Dr. mentions something very "low tech" that appeals to me.
    You may not be able to match the exact print to a shoe owned by an individual, but it may be possible to match ware areas on the sole of the shoe to known shoes of an individual. We all walk in a different manner and after a while form a distinct wear pattern on our shoes. It's not a fingerprint, but it's better than nothing.
    Where are Patsy Ramsey's Boots?

    SHE WON'T SURRENDER THEM TO THE POLICE! There is speculation that the Boulder Police Department has the boots. I don't know the facts of this contradiction. Susan Bennett reports on her web page that the boots are in the possession of the Boulder authorities. She states that they were turned over to the police by the Ramsey family.
    Susan has followed this case as have I since the murder. She has a reputation of submitting her speculation as fact.
    It is believed the Patsy Ramsey wore beaver trimmed boots the night of the murder. She was seen again wearing the same boots when she submitted her handwriting samples.
    The Ramseys were asked to turn over all clothing worn the night of JonBenet's murder. Everthing was turned over to the police with the exception of two minor items: Patsy Ramsey's Boots.
    WHERE ARE PATSY RAMSEY'S BOOTS?
    PATSY RAMSEY KNOWS!

    Shoes, Shoes, Shoes: Det. Lou Smit is very interested in the victim's shoes. What about a suspect's shoes? He doesn't seem to be too concerned about those shoes.

    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  3. #3
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    ..and the rest:





    WHAT IS A PHOTO OF PAM PAUGH DOING ON THE FORENSIC PAGE?
    During her numerous recent appearances on radio and national television she accused the Boulder Police Department of gross incompetence in their collection of swabbed saliva evidence. To this date she remains unchallanged.
    What a coup.
    She witnessed the fact that the police contaminated a saliva swab. I imagine the swab was one taken from her father.

    I'll mention again that Pam Paugh is the sister of Patsy Ramsey and appearently has been selected by the family to represent their view in media interviews.
    Pam Paugh is "outraged". She observed an officer collect a swabbed saliva sample and reports that the officer returned to his car holding the swab in the open air. She just couldn't believe the blatant contamination of the evidence. Of course that sample is useless......
    NO IT ISN'T PAM!
    UNFORTUNATELY THE BOULDER POLICE CAN'T RESPOND, BUT I CAN!
    LET'S GO BACK TO DR. SAFERSTEIN
    I'll bet PAM slept through his class.
    Quoted from Dr. Saferstein's section of the book on Forensic Serology:
    "In cases relating to the typing of seminal stains, laboratory submissions must include saliva so that the secretor status of both the suspect and victim can be determined. To obtain saliva, the individiuals in question should be asked to thoroughly saturate a clean piece of filter paper with saliva. THE SALIVA SHOULD THEN BE AIR-DRIED OUT OF DIRECT SUNLIGHT OR HEAT. The donor should hot have anything in his or her mouth for 25 minutes before giving this sample-this includes gum. cigarettes, cigars, and the like. In addition, a sample of whole blood from both victim and suspect should be obtained for blood typing."
    (end quote)

    Does this mean that the saliva sample should be dry before it is packaged for examination? That's what it sounds like to me. Pam, the information is on page 394.
    LET'S TALK ABOUT FINGERNAIL SCRAPINGS....PAM PAUGH DID.
    Pam Paugh also made numerous public statements regarding the the sloppy work preformed by Dr. Meyer, the Boulder Coroner. She claims that JonBenet's fingernails were trimmed quite far down into the nail bed with contaminated clippers. I don't know how she obtained this information, but that is the jest of her public statement. We now know that the media has released information stating that a small piece of matallic material was found in the fingernail scrapings.

    Of course her point is that any forensic conculsion obtained from the scrapings is useless.....
    I DON'T THINK SO PAM!
    Quoted from Dr. Saferstein's section of his book on Forensic Serology.
    "Scrape the undersurface of the nails with a dull object over a piece of clean paper to collect debris. Use separate paper..for each hand."
    (end quote)

    Pam, this information can be found on page 397.
    If you can't dispute the evidence, attack the analysis. Who is coaching you Pam? I'm sure you will change your tune as you have done in the past regarding your failure to reveal the identity of the killer to the mother of the dead JonBenet Ramsey.
    Pam Paugh will backtrack and re-invent the circumstances surrounding the investigation, but what's done is done!


    WHEN DID JONBENET DIE?
    WE KNOW THAT HER BODY WAS IN FULL RIGOR WHEN JOHN RAMSEY CARRIED HER INTO THE LIVING ROOM AT APPROXIMATELY 1:05 P.M. ON DECEMBER 26TH.
    The following graph showing the time frame for rigor was adapted from PRACTICAL HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION,Tactics, Procedures, and Forensic Techniques. Third Edition Vernon J. Geberth.
    Thank you Nora and Lizzie

    rendering by RG

    WHAT WE THINK WE KNOW ABOUT THE TOD (time of death) INVESTIGATION.
    The TOD was not indicated on the offical autopsy report released to the press. The coroner may have made an indication on his personal notes. We don't know. We do know that the TOD is extremely important. There are some indications of evidence that may help us.
    THE BIG RED FLAG
    LITTLE PIECES OF PINEAPPLE

    Let's take a look at what the coroner, Dr. Meyer, told us in the autopsy report.
    FINAL DIAGNOSIS:
    "LIGATURE STRANGULATION"
    "CRANIOCEREBRAL INJURIES"

    I believe JonBenet suffered trauma to the head twice at two different times and strangled twice at two different times. The second time for each injury was to cover evidence of the first. I have nothing on which to base this opinion other than my opinion.
    "The stomach contains a small amount (8-10cc) of viscous to green to tan colored thick mucous material without particulate matter identified......The proximal portion of the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple."
    Let's see what Vernon Geberth has to say about establishing TOD with the aid of Gastrointestinal Tract Contents.

    "Although commonly referred to as stomach contents, this also includes digested and undigested matter withn the entire body. The presence of food particles in the stomach and upper small intestine provides still another source of information to the pathologist regarding time of death. From an investigator's point of view, the presence of food on the table may offer some assistance if the victim maintained a routine eating time.
    When and what the deceased ate for his last meal is important information for the pathologist who will do the autopsy.

    Various ingested food materials remain within the stomach for variable periods of time, depending on the nature and size of the meal. It has been determined though extensive research that under ordinary circumtances the stomach empties its contents four to six hours afer a meal.
    If the stomach, at autopsy, is found to be filled with food, and digestion of the contents not extensive, it is reasonable to assume that death followed shortly after the meal. If the stomach is entirely empty, death probably took place at least 4 to 6 hours after the last meal. If the small intestine is also empty, the probability is that death took place at least 12 or more hours after the last meal.
    In certain cases the medical examiner will be able to determine the type of food which still remains in the stomach, if matched with the last known meal, this can help establish a time period........in certain cases it is good procedure to obtain a control of food products found at the crime scene.........."


    SO WHAT CAN THIS MEAN?

    Dr. Meyer states that the "pineapple" material was found in the Proximal Portion of the small intestine and the remainer of the small intestine is "unremarkable". The material left the stomach and was just beginning it's journey through the small intestine.
    It appears that the "pineapple" was eaten on an empty stomach, and was not digested along with a meal. We can see that it takes 4 to 6 hours to digest a meal. It must have been less than 4 hours before death when JonBenet ate pineapple on an empty stomach. I think somewhere between 2 and 3 hours would be a good guess. Patsy Ramsey denies any knowledge of JonBenet eating any pineapple at the White's home or the Ramsey home.
    The press reports a bowl with pineapple residue was taken into evidence by the Boulder Police Department during their investigation. The bowl is said to have Burke's prints on it.
    The food that JonBenet ate eariler in the day had already made it's way through the entire small intestine and into the large intestine.
    Dr. Meyer tells us. "The large intestine contains soft green fecal material." This must be the remains of any food that JonBenet ate while at the White's home before she arrived at her home at approximately 10:00 p.m..


    I BELIEVE THAT JONBENET DIED SOMETIME BETWEEN MIDNIGHT AND 1:00 A.M. AND THAT SHE HAD JUST ENTERED FULL RIGOR WHEN HER FATHER CARRIED HER UPSTAIRS AT 1:00 P.M. THE NEXT AFTERNOON.

    Think about the pineapple and go back up and take another look at the graph.
    DNA A CURSE OR BLESSING?
    "HOW ABOUT THAT, MR. FUNG"?
    THE DREADED QUESTION ON THE MINDS OF THE RAMSEY GRAND JURY

    Three weeks ago, it looked liked the Grand Jury was ready to wrap things up. One way or another they were finished with a long and exausting job. The alternates were released and instructed not to discuss the Ramsey inquiry. The Country watched the news, held it's collective breath and waited....and waited and is still waiting.
    WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
    IT'S MICROSCOPIC REMENTS OF ORGANIC TISSUE NOT BELONGING TO JONBENET FOUND UNDER HER FINGER NAILS/NAIL AND MINGLED THROUGHOUT HER BLOOD FOUND IN HER PANTIES.

    When I say her panties, it is a misnomer. JonBenet wore a size 6 panties and the ones the coroner removed were size 12. Another mystery within a mystery. Would Patsy Ramsey put a size 12 underpant on her daughter Christmas Day? It's possible, but it's not the most likely scenario. Did JonBenet require a change of panties at the White's Christmas Dinner? She may have, but Fleet White's daughter is approximately the same size as JonBenet and would not have worn a size 12. Patsy Ramsey says she removed Jon Benet's outter clothing and placed her in bed. The parents tell us she was asleep in the car when they arrived home. John Ramsey says he removed her shoes as was his custom and Patsy took care of the remainder of her bed time routine.
    During another statement made at another time by John Ramsey he indicated that he read to her at bed time. Did she fall asleep in the car and then request a bed time story after her Father removed her shoes. It's possible but it's not the most likely scenario.
    Lately Patsy Ramsey has added more to her story. She now claims that she and JonBenet recited the Lord's Prayer before JonBenet actually went to sleep. The more we hear the more time each parent says they spent with JonBenet on that last goodnight.
    DR. LEE TALKS ON LARRY KING LIVE ON MAY 18, 1999
    BUT WHAT DID HE SAY.......ACTUALLY NOTHING!
    Of course we heard nothing that was directly connected to the case. We did hear some "case examples" to determine time of death. Did we learn something new when we heard that the last person to see the victim alive can help? Did we learn something when we heard that a smashed watch recorded the time of death of one victim? Did we learn something new when we heard that rigor cannot give us anything more than a "good estimate" of the time of death? I'm sure Dr. Lee "knows his stuff", but he's not telling us.
    Check back soon for more information and opinion on the shoe prints, the cord, the tape, the pineapple, the bear, the palm print, the DNA and more

    Visit more of my pages.


    The Mystery of JonBenet Ramsey

    THE JAMESON FACTOR
    What does SUE BENNETT from Hickory North Carolina have to do with the Ramsey Murder Case?

    The Almost Perfect Murder Of JonBenet Ramsey


    THE KILLING FIELD
    Visit the House On 15th Street and the Ramsey Basement.

    SEX LIES AND VIEDO TAPE
    A conversation with JonBenet about the 48 HOURS TELEVISION REPORT.


    Ruth Gerstenkorn
    E-Mail me with thoughts and questions
    Last Modified May 18,1999



    I'm Always under construction.



    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  4. #4
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    If you Google "Jonbenet Ramsey autopsy" Ruth's site will pop up- she has lots more. Sadly, she passed away shortly after she did this site, which is why there have been no updates.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    If you Google "Jonbenet Ramsey autopsy" Ruth's site will pop up- she has lots more. Sadly, she passed away shortly after she did this site, which is why there have been no updates.
    Yes,I remember reading somewhere that she'd died.I'm glad her sites are still up,she seemed to be right on target about so many things.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  6. #6
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    The Red Heart..

    I have said this a thousand times, but I will say it again...to me, the "heart" looks like a smiley face....two straight lines, with a mouth...sort of like this....= )...only turned upright, and not sideways. My six year old draws smiley faces that way.
    "This time we get it right."

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    I have said this a thousand times, but I will say it again...to me, the "heart" looks like a smiley face....two straight lines, with a mouth...sort of like this....= )...only turned upright, and not sideways. My six year old draws smiley faces that way.
    I forgot you'd said that,but yes,could very well be.I wonder if there was a section of the bear cut out in the pic,though,and if so,did it look like what was drawn on her hand? Not that an intruder would have done that,it likely would have been JB.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    I forgot you'd said that,but yes,could very well be.I wonder if there was a section of the bear cut out in the pic,though,and if so,did it look like what was drawn on her hand? Not that an intruder would have done that,it likely would have been JB.
    Hey, I meant to add this link to the "heart on her hand", in my orginal post, but forgot. I swear, the only thing that I see is a Smiley face...= ) turned right side up..and not side ways. I have yet to see a heart.

    http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenethandheart.jpg
    "This time we get it right."

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    Hey, I meant to add this link to the "heart on her hand", in my orginal post, but forgot. I swear, the only thing that I see is a Smiley face...= ) turned right side up..and not side ways. I have yet to see a heart.

    http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenethandheart.jpg
    thx for that I don't really see a heart there either.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    thx for that I don't really see a heart there either.
    I wish that I had a way of using photoshop..to highlight the smiley that I see in another color...besides red....and put it into my post. Don't think that I can do that on this board, though.
    "This time we get it right."


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    thx for that I don't really see a heart there either.
    But it was such a good little heart 'ya know .....

    You know what. In all seriousness, when I read Patsy's first statements about that little heart and how well it was drawn, it seemed overwhelmingly sad to me. Guilty or not, she seemed like a woman drawing from deep, down within for a sweet memory of her little girl. Then the next morning she comes in and states she really didn't see it or whatever and blah, blah, blah ... ruined the whole moment for me.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOESP View Post
    But it was such a good little heart 'ya know .....

    You know what. In all seriousness, when I read Patsy's first statements about that little heart and how well it was drawn, it seemed overwhelmingly sad to me. Guilty or not, she seemed like a woman drawing from deep, down within for a sweet memory of her little girl. Then the next morning she comes in and states she really didn't see it or whatever and blah, blah, blah ... ruined the whole moment for me.
    LOL..you are funny!! I thought the same thing though...she had me ALMOST feeling sorry for her, I even ALMOST squeeked out a tear or two. But, then....BAM...she changes her story...why am I not surprised. It was a well drawn little heart....no WAIT!...UHHH...I MEANT to say that I didn't see it, so I really don't know how well it was drawn, or anything about it. HEART? What heart?
    "This time we get it right."

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOESP View Post
    But it was such a good little heart 'ya know .....

    You know what. In all seriousness, when I read Patsy's first statements about that little heart and how well it was drawn, it seemed overwhelmingly sad to me. Guilty or not, she seemed like a woman drawing from deep, down within for a sweet memory of her little girl. Then the next morning she comes in and states she really didn't see it or whatever and blah, blah, blah ... ruined the whole moment for me.
    The only way she can live with this is to say "I did not mean it". I know in my heart I did not do this. It was an accident so I am not admitting that I meant to kill her. That would be insane and I am not insane.

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    To me, it looks like a heart drawn by a child.
    That's another thing that always bothered me. Why lie about it? It doesn't really have anything to do with the crime, as far as I can tell. She was playing with her little friends that day, and maybe it was done then. Even if PR lied about not seeing JBR alive and awake after they put her to bed, why lie about the heart? If you saw it, say so. If you didn't, you could say that it may have been there, but you didn't notice it. It wouldn't be unusual after a busy Christmas day, and getting the kids to bed. It's a stupid thing to lie about. Like the pineapple.
    So here's the thing...we know that the pineapple lie was told because they needed to deny her being awake that night after they got home. Now, the heart doesn't have anything to do with her death itself, but the fact that PR flip-flopped about seeing it indicates that she SAW THE BODY hours before calling 911 and JR bringing it upstairs.
    And I also believe that the R's had other people in the house right after JBR died. John's slip up "There were a lot of people here at 3 in the morning".
    The decision was made to call 911, the friends left and came back when called the next morning.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    To me, it looks like a heart drawn by a child.
    That's another thing that always bothered me. Why lie about it? It doesn't really have anything to do with the crime, as far as I can tell. She was playing with her little friends that day, and maybe it was done then. Even if PR lied about not seeing JBR alive and awake after they put her to bed, why lie about the heart? If you saw it, say so. If you didn't, you could say that it may have been there, but you didn't notice it. It wouldn't be unusual after a busy Christmas day, and getting the kids to bed. It's a stupid thing to lie about. Like the pineapple.
    So here's the thing...we know that the pineapple lie was told because they needed to deny her being awake that night after they got home. Now, the heart doesn't have anything to do with her death itself, but the fact that PR flip-flopped about seeing it indicates that she SAW THE BODY hours before calling 911 and JR bringing it upstairs.
    And I also believe that the R's had other people in the house right after JBR died. John's slip up "There were a lot of people here at 3 in the morning".
    The decision was made to call 911, the friends left and came back when called the next morning.
    DeeDee249,
    If the heart has any relevance then that Patsy saw it, suggests it was created after returning from the White's, else Patsy could simply say Oh I think I noticed that when I was putting her to bed, she must have done that when playing at the White's? Or she has been given advice to deny knowing about it so she can distance herself from the case, which is my take on this aspect.

    And I also believe that the R's had other people in the house right after JBR died. John's slip up "There were a lot of people here at 3 in the morning".
    The decision was made to call 911, the friends left and came back when called the next morning.
    This is highly doubtful, not least because of the lack of forensic evidence to confirm your belief, but why was JonBenet not removed from the house as per the ransom note?

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