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  1. #256
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    The clinchers for me in this case were the signs of an obvious cleanup having been done by Amanda and her boyfriend (I believe one room of the house was completely devoid of Amanda's fingerprints - an idiotic move on her part since she lived in the house), the obvious, blatant lying/framing of Lumumba, and the sociopathic behavior by Amanda (not seeming to give a wit that her roommate was murdered/doing cartwheels in the police station, etc).

    The motive? By all accounts Meredith was a lovely girl with a loving family, a boyfriend who loved her, plenty of close girlfriends, and a level of authenticity and kindness that drew all those who met her to admire her. Amanda is insecure, seems to have made no close girlfriends in Italy, and derived her self-esteem from her casual relationships with men. In other words, jealousy, pure and simple. Meredith had something Amanda will never have: an inner warmth, and utter unself-consciousness that made her a joy to be around. I also find it telling that the Kercher family clearly seems to think Amanda is guilty.

    I seriously doubt the Italian LE would go out of their way to railroad an innocent American girl if they did not have serious evidence/reasons pointing to her guilt. They saw her story not adding up from day one, and circumstantial and physical evidence points in the direction of Amanda and Rafaele, in addition to Guede. I'm confident Meredith will get the justice she deserves. Anyone know when a verdict is expected?


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  3. #257
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    A verdict is expected in early December


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  5. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia View Post
    The clinchers for me in this case were the signs of an obvious cleanup having been done by Amanda and her boyfriend (I believe one room of the house was completely devoid of Amanda's fingerprints - an idiotic move on her part since she lived in the house), the obvious, blatant lying/framing of Lumumba, and the sociopathic behavior by Amanda (not seeming to give a wit that her roommate was murdered/doing cartwheels in the police station, etc).

    The motive? By all accounts Meredith was a lovely girl with a loving family, a boyfriend who loved her, plenty of close girlfriends, and a level of authenticity and kindness that drew all those who met her to admire her. Amanda is insecure, seems to have made no close girlfriends in Italy, and derived her self-esteem from her casual relationships with men. In other words, jealousy, pure and simple. Meredith had something Amanda will never have: an inner warmth, and utter unself-consciousness that made her a joy to be around. I also find it telling that the Kercher family clearly seems to think Amanda is guilty.

    I seriously doubt the Italian LE would go out of their way to railroad an innocent American girl if they did not have serious evidence/reasons pointing to her guilt. They saw her story not adding up from day one, and circumstantial and physical evidence points in the direction of Amanda and Rafaele, in addition to Guede. I'm confident Meredith will get the justice she deserves. Anyone know when a verdict is expected?
    I agree with that and a blogger in Seattle took the Seattle newspapers to task for their blind support of Amanda.

    http://www.zimbio.com/Amanda+Knox/ar...rtwheels+Judge

    I edited the quoted part of the article because it had no paragraphs making it difficult to read.

    The exchange came as Inspector Ficarra, of the city’s Flying Squad, described 21-year-old Knox’s bizarre behaviour after her arrest following the killing in 2007. “I was in the elevator and when I got to the floor where the Flying Squad department is the door opened and I saw Amanda doing floor exercises,” he said. “She was doing the splits, cartwheels and arching herself backwards, pressing her hands on the floor. I said to her, ‘What on earth are you doing? Is this the right way to behave?'

    From the UK’s Independent: Chief Inspector Monica Napoleoni told the court where the pair are on trial for murder how, at the police station as they waited to be first questioned, Mr Sollecito and Ms Knox “appeared completely indifferent to everything, lying down, kissing, pulling faces and writing each other notes. They were talking to each in low voices the whole time – it was impossible that they were behaving like this when there was a dead body in their house. It seemed strange to everybody”. Ms Knox had also “turned cartwheels and done the splits,” she said.

    From the UK’s Daily Telegraph: Ms Napoleoni recalled thinking that Miss Knox and her boyfriend seemed “indifferent to everything” when they were called to a police station in Perugia for questioning on Nov 5, 2007. It was there that the American turned cartwheels and did the splits.

    And the last word, as always, from the London Times: Ms Napoleoni said she and other officers had seen Ms Knox “doing cartwheels and the splits” while Mr Sollecito was being questioned and she was waiting her turn. Ms Napoleoni said she found this “very strange”. She said Ms Knox and Mr Sollecito “had a bizarre attitude throughout - they were laughing, kissing and pulling faces at each other.
    Last edited by Steely Dan; 11-24-2009 at 11:37 AM.


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  7. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by missyjane77 View Post
    I have looked at all the evidence. I've also looked out how the police there botched the evidence (IMO). I still stand by my beliefs that she's innocent. If she were being tried here in the USA, she'd be acquitted.
    What part or parts are you describing as 'botched'?
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  8. #260
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    I wish this case were tried in a US court for a variety of reasons. Guilty or not, the accused deserves a fair trial. The victim's deserve a fair trial too. A show trial or sham trial is worthless. At least in the US you have to convince the jury of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and also the crime has to have happened as it is described. In this case, while Knox might very well be guilty of SOMETHING... I don't necessarily buy the prosecution's version of the events. What evidence there is in the case is muddled and contradictory. There is so much in the news that has never been presented in court, and with no one sequestered, its hard to know what the Jury will actually go with. The prosecution has several versions of what happened... sex game, Knox was angry at the victim, etc. Some evidence is there... some doesn't fit like the so called murder weapon not matching the knife wounds on the body. The case just needs a more thorough court to handle it all and in a timely manner.
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  10. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla Lashelle View Post
    I wish this case were tried in a US court for a variety of reasons. Guilty or not, the accused deserves a fair trial. The victim's deserve a fair trial too. A show trial or sham trial is worthless. At least in the US you have to convince the jury of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and also the crime has to have happened as it is described. In this case, while Knox might very well be guilty of SOMETHING... I don't necessarily buy the prosecution's version of the events. What evidence there is in the case is muddled and contradictory. There is so much in the news that has never been presented in court, and with no one sequestered, its hard to know what the Jury will actually go with. The prosecution has several versions of what happened... sex game, Knox was angry at the victim, etc. Some evidence is there... some doesn't fit like the so called murder weapon not matching the knife wounds on the body. The case just needs a more thorough court to handle it all and in a timely manner.
    What news was not presented in court? The knife does match the fatal wound, plus has DNA of both Amanda and Meredith on it. On the timely part you may be right, but on the thorough part I don't think so much. You know that like 10 judges look over the evidence to see if it is satifactory for a possible prosecution right?

    If innocent, there is absolutely NO reason to tell repeated lies as Amanda and Raffaele have done. Why would one killer, clean up a crime scene but leave obvious signs that that person was there? Why was there a staged break-in?
    Who and why would Meredith's position be moved and tampered with? Who would benefit by steering LE towards the idea of a break-in and rape? Who could 'clean up' the crime scene without much worry of being interrupted?
    Again, why lie at all... not to mention over and over???
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  12. #262
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    I guess some people will believe what they want. I still think the trial is a fiasco whether Knox is guilty or not.

    Im not saying she isnt guilty or at least involved in this... but I have a hard time following some of the prosecutions story, at least as how it is presented here on US tv.
    Lashelle


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  14. #263
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    I promise you I am not just believing what I want to. I read several forums (from both sides) regularly and have followed this case closely from the very beginning.
    From the US press reports, I can see how you feel the way you do. They have been very biased for the most part and are usually leaning to the side of Amanda's innocence. Plus some of the testimony and some of the reporting has been a little mixed up in translation... with some facts distorted and others down right wrong. I also agree with the Italian judiciary system is much different than ours in the US. Some things work better and some not so much. For one thing the time it has taken does not seem fair for the accused... but that happens sometimes here too. Although some of the evidence is ambiguous, the Italian authorities have really done a very serious job investigating this. You know they do not want their system seen as a farce, so they are doing their best to cross their Ts and dot their Is.

    If you have any questions I would be glad to try to help, just ask away. I have been intrigued with this case since day one.
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  16. #264
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    If you don't trust the prosecution then ask Knox what happened that night. Maybe she will tell you. While she is grinning and laughing.


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  18. #265
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    I don't believe it was a "sex game" gone wrong, I think she was killed out of jealousy because Amanda was obviously jealous of Meredith.

    does anybody know who covered Meredith up with the bed spread and who locked Meredith's door?

    and does anybody know if Rudy has implicated either Amanda or Raf or both as being there that night with him?


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  20. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgfred View Post
    I promise you I am not just believing what I want to. I read several forums (from both sides) regularly and have followed this case closely from the very beginning.
    From the US press reports, I can see how you feel the way you do. They have been very biased for the most part and are usually leaning to the side of Amanda's innocence. Plus some of the testimony and some of the reporting has been a little mixed up in translation... with some facts distorted and others down right wrong. I also agree with the Italian judiciary system is much different than ours in the US. Some things work better and some not so much. For one thing the time it has taken does not seem fair for the accused... but that happens sometimes here too. Although some of the evidence is ambiguous, the Italian authorities have really done a very serious job investigating this. You know they do not want their system seen as a farce, so they are doing their best to cross their Ts and dot their Is.

    If you have any questions I would be glad to try to help, just ask away. I have been intrigued with this case since day one.
    If you'd like to can you give me a briefing on the pros and cons of her innocence?

    Thanks


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  22. #267
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    GUILTY. The only reason there's anyone on the other side is because she's a somewhat cute and young white girl from the USA.


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  24. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla Lashelle View Post
    I wish this case were tried in a US court for a variety of reasons. Guilty or not, the accused deserves a fair trial. The victim's deserve a fair trial too. A show trial or sham trial is worthless. At least in the US you have to convince the jury of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and also the crime has to have happened as it is described. In this case, while Knox might very well be guilty of SOMETHING... I don't necessarily buy the prosecution's version of the events. What evidence there is in the case is muddled and contradictory. There is so much in the news that has never been presented in court, and with no one sequestered, its hard to know what the Jury will actually go with. The prosecution has several versions of what happened... sex game, Knox was angry at the victim, etc. Some evidence is there... some doesn't fit like the so called murder weapon not matching the knife wounds on the body. The case just needs a more thorough court to handle it all and in a timely manner.
    There is no reason why this should be tried in the U.S. The crime was committed in Italy so it should be tried in Italian courts. I don't think this case would have been any better or worse represented in this country. It just seems pretty ethnocentric to assume we have a superior court system. This is Italy we are talking about - a 1st world, developed country, a lot of our own judicial system and gov't structure is based on the Italian model. Their court system similar to ours and they do have to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. This is not some 3rd world country we are referring to.
    The U.S has sensational trials all the time and with our obsession w/ media and 24/7 media access this trial could potentially turn into a bigger circus if it was done in the U.S.
    How many trials do we read about here where evidence was not submitted, where contradictory statements are made, where the prosecution puts up bogus arguements or they become so convinced and focused on someone's guilt they get tunnel vision and ignore evidence which could prove otherwise. Innocent people are convicted all the time in the U.S. We do not have some super advanced, foul-proof system here. With our appeal system this case could have taken much, much longer to go to trial. You have to give the prosecution and defense adequate time to build their cases and 2 yrs doesn't seem that outrageous.
    Last edited by gaia227; 11-25-2009 at 11:57 AM.
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  26. #269
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    It seems to me that the American legal system tends to favor the defendant more than the Italian system, particularly if the defendant can obtain top drawer legal talent. All of the checks and balances are pretty much worthless if all you have is a Public Defender. I'm not sure this is a good thing. I have no idea if anyone has compared the "innocents convicted/guilties aquitted" rates between the two countries but I would be willing to bet that the amount the defendant spends on counsel counts for more in an American Court than an Itallian Court.

    Had this occured in the US, Amanda's attorney would have done everything he could to keep the initial statement she (and Raf) gave, out of the courtroom. I don't think the forensic evidence on its own nails them and there may have been ways to "explain" the cleanup/stageing activities but the initial series of lies they gave were very hard to get around.

    In the US, "witnesses" are not Mirandized; only suspects are. Any time a "witness" discloses something in a police interview that ends up as "evidence" against them, a defence Att will try to have it "thrown out" because there was no Miranda warning. It dosen't always work; its kind of a grey area.

    My own guess at what happened is that the four (Amanda, Raf, Rudy and Merideth) were together and "something" happened and one of them killed Merideth. The other two apparently came to the conclusion that they were in it "too deep" and did not run to the police. Rudy seems to have believed(probably correctly) that it would be hung on him as he better fit the profile of a killer. The prosecuter is now hanging it on Amanda (because she, unlke Rudy) is on trial. The evidence doen't point to any of them in particular (but it establishes that they were all "involved"). What really went down is anybody's guess.


  27. #270
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    I don't believe the truth will ever be known about this case...I think the prosecution is tainted and clearly the defendants are not completely innocent....it is sort of hard to imagine at the bare minimum that they cared much for the murdered roommate given their behavior while waiting to be questioned.

    If it were the US, I am not sure it would have made it to trial, but then again I live in a dream world that someone as shady as Miglini would have been put out of office by now...again JMO. For anyone who has not read "Monster of Florence", this same prosecutor is a central figure in the tale. http://johnbakersblog.co.uk/the-monster-of-florence/
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