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  1. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyL View Post
    can someone link me to the prior kidnapping attempt & knife threat reports please & thank you?
    I dont know anything about the prior kidnapping but...

    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...new-witness.do
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  3. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by dgfred View Post
    Ha, I know what you mean about the 90s!

    -AK was a WITNESS before she accused Patrick L, from that point on she was at least a SUSPECT. AK demanded to speak to LE in the middle of the night and a couple of days later submitted a letter to them describing her 'thoughts' of what might have happened and what she was doing that night that she could remember. She also sent emails describing the day and night to family and friends. All of these statements are full of descrepancies and some outright lies imo. She was offered a translater and did not need one in her own opinion in the first interviews.

    -The prosecution did not have to give a motive, mostly it was just speculation/theories/possible scenarios of what might have happened according to all the evidence and using logic.

    -I don't think AK hated Meredith, maybe resentment/jealousy/dislike/indifference... probably some better descriptions anyway. I believe this may have started as a prank, as there has been some questions about AK doing this to another person in her past = pretending to kidnap a person or scare them while under disguise. I think it maybe started out that way to scare or intimidate Meredith... and escalated out of control.
    I do believe Meredith was annoyed at AK's sanitary habits, activities with guys, and overall behavior... but not hate either.

    -The evidence of clean-up and a staged break-in were large factors in case.
    RG would not clean up other evidence and leave his all over the place. Why would a break-in be staged? How was this and the blood stains and Meredith's locked door not make AK suspicious when she first came home as she said? Why can RS and AK not remember exactly what they did that night except for proven lies? Why would they BOTH lie anyway, if innocent? There is AKs and Merediths DNA on a knife found at RS home... how could that happen if Meredith had eaten supper with RS as he claimed? Why would they both turn off their cell phones (unlike any other days) at the same time early that night? Where are the clothes and shoes she was wearing that night?
    Much more stuff than you might imagine at first to consider imo.
    I've followed the case from the beginning and think AK is guilty for all of the reasons you've given in your posts.

    The reporting in the U.S. has been very slanted.

    IMO


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  5. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by ****** View Post
    I'm American, I believe she's guilty and I agree with the verdict, and the race thing was never an issue for me.

    Gotta be careful with stereotypes all around!

    ****** i agree..its just another forum i belong to..its like the black man this and the black man that..and how its all down to the Italian Courts being corrupt and that Amanda is this sweet and innocent thing...while i dont disagree that Guede is guilty...i dont believe he did it on his own and never did.
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
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  7. #529
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    I dont know if this is what they meant?

    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...erican-girl.do
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  8. #530
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    I just read that the Italian system allows for two appeals against the verdict.


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  10. #531
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    According to AK's aunt, Italy doesn't even sequester the jury, so this jury was reading the papers, watching the news, talking about the case to others, listening to every piece of gossip, etc. That alone is unfair and isn't right!

    Let's not forget that just because a media source reports something, it does not make it a fact. Especially in Italy, where do you think the term "Paparazzi" originated? News sources pay people money for stories, whether it's fact or not. Some people react to violence and grieve differently than others, some people become numb and don't react at all. Just because she wasn't always a pile of tears doesn't make her guilty, even if she never cried once. And I don't really care what some shop-owner claims AK was saying while shopping for unmentionables or what type of unmentionables she bought or what she planned on doing while wearing the unmentionables or what Tom told Dick or what Dick told Harry, blah blah blah...

    Whether or not she was involved, it was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law, IMO. In tabloids and other rags she absolutely was proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but that doesn't make her actually guilty. And, according to the opinion of many others, including many on WS and in the media that are normally much harder on accused sexually aggressive "criminals", they feel the same as I do. She was NOT given a fair trial. Instead, she was given a scarlet letter.

    JMO
    Last edited by Tizzle; 12-04-2009 at 11:57 PM.


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  12. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    ****** i agree..its just another forum i belong to..its like the black man this and the black man that..and how its all down to the Italian Courts being corrupt and that Amanda is this sweet and innocent thing...while i dont disagree that Guede is guilty...i dont believe he did it on his own and never did.
    Isabella, I've followed the case from the beginning and I 100% agree with you that Amanda is guilty. i could care less that Amanda smoked marijuana or about her sex life. The footprint under the body, the way the house was cleaned; the phones that were turned off at the same time; that Amanda says she came home and took a shower even though the front door was open and there was blood in the bathroom...Amanda said she thought it was Marilyn's menstrual blood; the hinky staged broken window; that Amanda told people where the body was when she hadn't been in the room; Amanada's and RS's amnesia about the night of the murder; the DNA evidence...there is plenty pointing to Amanda's involvement.

    I've been appalled by the bias of the press in the U.S.
    Last edited by Jolynna; 12-04-2009 at 10:13 PM.


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  14. #533
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    Apparently she has to pay Patrick 36k for falsely accusing him

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...h-Kercher.html

    Nice pics of the bf on his pc by looks of it..
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
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  16. #534
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    Dateline is on now and it's about this case.


  17. #535
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    I am American and I am happy she is convicted...I think justice was served

    I don't see why some Americans are so worried....she might have gotten the death penalty if she did this where I live

    If you don't want to go to trial in a foreign country don't do crimes when you travel or study abroad

    Italy may do somethings different from us, that is their right. It is not like being on trial in some country with Islamic laws...it is not North Korea.

    if you don't want to go to prison here, don't do crimes...really simple

    I do think that her family has been using good old American PR people and media to "sanitize" her reputation

    from the start she looked smug and like she thought this was a joke..well now she knows it is not


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  19. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tizzle View Post
    According to AK's aunt, Italy doesn't even sequester the jury, so this jury was reading the papers, watching the news, talking about the case to others, listening to every piece of gossip, etc. That alone is unfair and isn't right!

    Let's not forget that just because a media source reports something, it does not make it a fact. Especially in Italy, where do you think the term "Paparazzi" originated? News sources pay people money for stories, whether it's fact or not. Some people react to violence and grief differently than others, some people become numb and don't react at all. And I don't really care what some shop-owner claims AK was saying while shopping for unmentionables or what type of unmentionables she bought or what she planned on doing while wearing the unmentionables or what Tom told Dick or what Dick told Harry, blah blah blah...

    Whether or not she was involved, it was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law, IMO. In tabloids and other rags she absolutely was proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but that doesn't make her actually guilty. And, according to the opinion of many others, including many on WS and in the media that are normally much harder on accused sexually aggressive "criminals", they feel the same as I do. She was NOT given a fair trial. Instead, she was given a scarlet letter.

    JMO

    My honest opinion..any country that has shows like Nancy Grace and Greta shouldnt be complaining about others. By your reasoning how would Casey Anthony ever get a fair trial?

    And again i think its where your from as someone posted on whether you believe she was given a fair trial. At the end of the day Amanda is a liar who changed her story various times and even tried to blame a innocent man for it. At some point she has to take responsibility for her actions.
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


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  21. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tizzle View Post
    According to AK's aunt, Italy doesn't even sequester the jury, so this jury was reading the papers, watching the news, talking about the case to others, listening to every piece of gossip, etc. That alone is unfair and isn't right!

    Let's not forget that just because a media source reports something, it does not make it a fact. Especially in Italy, where do you think the term "Paparazzi" originated? News sources pay people money for stories, whether it's fact or not. Some people react to violence and grief differently than others, some people become numb and don't react at all. And I don't really care what some shop-owner claims AK was saying while shopping for unmentionables or what type of unmentionables she bought or what she planned on doing while wearing the unmentionables or what Tom told Dick or what Dick told Harry, blah blah blah...

    Whether or not she was involved, it was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law, IMO. In tabloids and other rags she absolutely was proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but that doesn't make her actually guilty. And, according to the opinion of many others, including many on WS and in the media that are normally much harder on accused sexually aggressive "criminals", they feel the same as I do. She was NOT given a fair trial. Instead, she was given a scarlet letter.

    JMO
    There were 8 jurors, 6 normal and 2 judges that saw ALL the evidence. Do you think they were swayed by the evidence or the media?

    Do you think the US media was biased in one way or another? Why just the Italian press?

    The shop owner testimony was an itsy bitsy piece of the investigation, and I'm not even sure it was brought up at all at trial anyway. It couldn't be proven because of no receipts or videos... and the shop owner wasn't sure when exactly it was.

    Would you mind listing your evidence of the trial being 'unfair'? I would like a chance to read it.
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  23. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgfred View Post
    There were 8 jurors, 6 normal and 2 judges that saw ALL the evidence. Do you think they were swayed by the evidence or the media?

    Do you think the US media was biased in one way or another? Why just the Italian press?

    The shop owner testimony was an itsy bitsy piece of the investigation, and I'm not even sure it was brought up at all at trial anyway. It couldn't be proven because of no receipts or videos... and the shop owner wasn't sure when exactly it was.

    Would you mind listing your evidence of the trial being 'unfair'? I would like a chance to read it.

    So would I
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  25. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    My honest opinion..any country that has shows like Nancy Grace and Greta shouldnt be complaining about others. By your reasoning how would Casey Anthony ever get a fair trial?

    And again i think its where your from as someone posted on whether you believe she was given a fair trial. At the end of the day Amanda is a liar who changed her story various times and even tried to blame a innocent man for it. At some point she has to take responsibility for her actions.
    1) I don't watch Nancy or Greta or any of that garbage. ETA: No offense to those who do, just not MY thing.

    2) I haven't stated whether I feel she is guilty or not. Just that I don't feel she was given a fair trial. And what does the country I live in have to do with anything?
    Last edited by Tizzle; 12-04-2009 at 10:13 PM.


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  27. #540
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    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


    John Morgan: I can tell.


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  29. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tizzle View Post
    1) I don't watch Nancy or Greta or any of that garbage.

    2) I haven't stated whether I feel she is guilty or not. Just that I don't feel she was given a fair trial. And what does the country I live in have to do with anything?
    Because to say she wasnt given a fair trial because the Jurors may have read a paper in the 11 months is ludicrous especially when there are shows like Nancy around.
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
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    like my sister as far as how we would react.


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  31. #542
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    So you're ok with that system if you're the one in the position of "possibly" wrongly accused?
    Last edited by Tizzle; 12-04-2009 at 10:17 PM.


  32. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogicalMinds View Post
    I think the way she changed her stories so many times is very telling

    at one point she was accusing her boss, and claimed she was there and "saw" him rape Meredith?? and now he is suing her for defamation of character

    Amanda Knox seemed so cocky and carefree in the beginning, like she didn't take this seriously

    well now I guess she does

    probably the food is better in Italian prisons <grin> so manga manga Amanda

    ciao
    BBM: I truly think that she did not take the case seriously at all. I believe that she thought herself above all that was happening.


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  34. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tizzle View Post
    So you're ok with that system if you're the one in the position of "possibly" wrongly accused?
    I dont believe for one moment she was wrondly accused so yes im fine with it.
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  36. #545
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    That wasn't my question, but cool. I hope you never find yourself in that position.


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  38. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tizzle View Post
    That wasn't my question, but cool. I hope you never find yourself in that position.
    Seeing as i have no plans to murder anyone im sure i wont.
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
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    like my sister as far as how we would react.


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  40. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tizzle View Post
    So you're ok with that system if you're the one in the position of "possibly" wrongly accused?
    What is your evidence of 'possibly wrongly accused'?
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  41. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by MomofBoys View Post
    Thanks!

    Despite speaking fluent Italian? I have to admit to always being skeptical of coercion claims and especially in this case, since she's never seemed traumatized by the events of that night.

    They say the appeals process often shortens the sentences, so...it doesn't sound like she'll be spending life in prison by any means. So many comments on NG exclaim that this never would have happened in America and she would have been better off here, but I'm not so sure. If an American jury found her guilty, she'd be looking at more time.
    You got that right. The fact is, sometimes Americans actually do commit crimes in other countries. When they do, they are subject to those countries' legal systems. The legal systems in most of Europe are much less harsh than here. None have the death penalty, some have caps on life sentences and their prisons are summer camps compared to ours. So AK got off pretty easily if indeed she committed this crime.
    As for the coercion claims, I very much doubt it. Again, the legal systems are much less harsh in Europe and that includes interrogation techniques. People often complain that suspects and defendants in Europe have more rights than the victims. So, in the case of confessions, I would tend to not give much creedence to a coercion argument.
    I am afraid that many of us don't like one of our own subject to the laws of another country, nor do we like an American to be judged by foreigners. I wonder how people would feel if this case played out here and not in Italy.
    Violent crime and/or sexual violence is not as common in some parts of Europe and they tend to think of the United States as the most violent country among the Western democracies. The Italians would be very disgusted by the thought of Americans living in their country and possibly committing such a crime there. They probably also feel that Americans have a lot of money and are favored due to our nation's superpower status so they likely feared that AK would get preferential treatment.
    In their country, 26 years is a lot of time, so I venture to guess that most Italians there are pleased and feel justice was done.

    ETA:
    My prayers tonight go to Meredith and her family.
    Last edited by gitana1; 12-04-2009 at 10:32 PM.
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  43. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    Because to say she wasnt given a fair trial because the Jurors may have read a paper in the 11 months is ludicrous especially when there are shows like Nancy around.
    But jurors here are not allowed (or not supposed) to encounter any media reports of the actual trial.

    When the jurors are selected, the lawyers have an opportunity to determine as best they can through voir dire which ones have been exposed to significant media coverage and try to unearth any evidence of bias. A juror is told that whatever press they've seen prior to the trial is not evidence and that they shouldn't consider anything not entered in court. Of course, that's hard to do, but that's what voir dire is for.

    Once the trial starts, you are stuck with that jury unless you can prove wrongdoing. It is wrong for a juror here to read news articles or watch TV news reports about what happened in court that day. But if they are allowed and the media takes a certain slant, then suddenly the witness they liked and believed may be cast in an unfavorable light by a reporter and cause the juror to rethink their view.

    Not that I think any of this means the trial wasn't fair, just pointing out that there is a difference.

    I also take offense to the characterization of Americans and race. I don't know anyone who thinks she is innocent.

    Also, I certainly would never travel to those countries whose justice system I find irresponsible. As much as I would like to see certain parts of the world, it is just not worth it to end up in some hellhole of a jail without due process.
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  45. #550
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    People have been falsely accused before, evidence has been contaminated before, and juries have been swayed by media coverage...it's not unheard of.

    I don't think, for instance, that an innocent person who just got released after serving years for a crime they did not commit would agree that you're safe just because you say you "don't plan on murdering anyone."


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