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  1. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by arielilane View Post
    I have followed this case closely and agree with you and others who think Amanda got screwed. Actually screwed is not even the word for it…this is her life we are talking about. I have felt all along this would be the end result and yes, I am angry at her parents as well to let this go on all this time “thinking that there would be any other outcome.”

    If it had been a Middle Eastern country rather than Italy – would people view it differently?

    Ok i want to put a question to you now. I am English. I am using Neil Entwhistle as an example cause hes the only Brit i can think of in prison there at the moment. But after his trial how would you like it if the Brits said after the trial he only got found guilty because they hate us over there? Or that we thought the cops framed him? Or that we thought he had no chance of a fair trial? Or hey America isnt England so it cant be a fair trial?

    I want to stress i have every confidence in the American courts and that i thought he was guilty but im just using that as an example.

    I just think the crap the Italians are getting for daring to find Amanda guilty is crazy. And you know something..the local people..for which her co-accused was one...actually CHEERED the verdict and prosecutors. There not standing there making excuses at all. It's funny how it goes.

    Oh and as for would it be viewed differently if it was in the middle East sure. She probably would have ended up the same way as Meredith as a sentence. Dead!
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  3. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by missyjane77 View Post
    I wonder what the numbers were for the verdict. I mean, it's majority vote, so how many voted guilty, how many voted innocent.

    I wish it had to be unanimous like it is here.

    I have a feeling they all agreed from what was said on our tv.
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
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  4. #628
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    I see so much focus in the pro-Amanda articles about the DNA on the knife and how Meredith's DNA was destroyed as a result of the testing, but to me that's the least convincing part of the case.

    Her confession and her lies and the blame-casting and her behavior after the fact just isn't consistent with an innocent person. And while most of that is completely circumstansial, I can't reconcile all of it with her innocence. It's like "Yes, this is weak and this is weak and that's not a smoking gun and this could have been coerced" but there's enough in concert to make brushing all of it away seem almost denial-esque.

    It's certainly a tough one, but after reading other boards I come away thinking that so many of Amanda's biggest supporters are basing their support not in the fact that they don't believe unequivocally in her innocence, but because they can't trust in Italy's objectivity. Which is fair, I guess, but it's making it this 'us v. them' thing that has nothing to do with the crime. I think this crime, committed in America and tried in America, would be widely seen as less confounding. I have to admit that any language barrier I see is my own. It's harder to follow when the proceedings are in another language and you don't trust the press. The U.S. press is really giving her such a soft ride.


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  6. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by missyjane77 View Post

    I this is just irresponsible " I am saddened by the verdict and I have serious questions about the Italian justice system and whether anti-Americanism tainted this trial "

    and about this

    "Other flaws in the Italian justice system on display in this case included the harsh treatment of Ms. Knox following her arrest; negligent handling of evidence by investigators;

    Again there is no proof that she was harshly treated. In fact there is no record of this as Amanda didnt put in a complaint or anything about this or have any photos taken to prove her claim"
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  8. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by Columbo View Post
    And what about the virulent anti-Semitism, mainly in Central Europe, that made it easy for Hitler to carry out his evil plan; and even when WWII ended, after 6 million or more people were slaughtered in concentration camps, the citizens of these countries still were killing the Jews who managed to survive, and making life difficult for them. From what I understand, this attitude still exists today (to some extent).
    Agreed, Columbo, totally & wholly. I was just thinking of very contemporary examples in relation to this trial & perceived prejudices. But you have demonstrated that though we have progressed some, we've still got a very long way to go as a species (Google BNP or La Front Nationale and you'll see what I mean. And we all know there are far too many more such diabolical groups in the world).
    'Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last.' Dr Samuel Johnson


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  10. #631
    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    I have a feeling they all agreed from what was said on our tv.
    Is there a news source stating that that you can point me to?


  11. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by MomofBoys View Post
    I see so much focus in the pro-Amanda articles about the DNA on the knife and how Meredith's DNA was destroyed as a result of the testing, but to me that's the least convincing part of the case.

    Her confession and her lies and the blame-casting and her behavior after the fact just isn't consistent with an innocent person. And while most of that is completely circumstansial, I can't reconcile all of it with her innocence. It's like "Yes, this is weak and this is weak and that's not a smoking gun and this could have been coerced" but there's enough in concert to make brushing all of it away seem almost denial-esque.

    It's certainly a tough one, but after reading other boards I come away thinking that so many of Amanda's biggest supporters are basing their support not in the fact that they don't believe unequivocally in her innocence, but because they can't trust in Italy's objectivity. Which is fair, I guess, but it's making it this 'us v. them' thing that has nothing to do with the crime. I think this crime, committed in America and tried in America, would be widely seen as less confounding. I have to admit that any language barrier I see is my own. It's harder to follow when the proceedings are in another language and you don't trust the press. The U.S. press is really giving her such a soft ride.
    Good post
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
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    like my sister as far as how we would react.


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  12. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by missyjane77 View Post
    Is there a news source stating that that you can point me to?

    I said that i have a feeling - not that i knew for sure. It was on a news programme earlier where a Italian guy ( maybe prosecutor i dont know) was saying that the jury had agreed..
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


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  13. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    I agree there is a difference in where you come from on whether you believe the verdict or not. It seems to me..that Americans..or some would rather put all the blame on a black guy from the Ivory Coast rather than accept a American girl could have been involved in this. And then because she is..then its like well Amandas not guilty its just the Italians are corrupt blah blah blah.
    I completely disagree with this. I think we all know that cute, sweet AMERICAN girls can be evil. This isn't about blaming it on a "black guy from the Ivory Coast" at all. It is about the case and the evidence and the way the evidence was handled. Your comments really rubbed me the wrong way, but, just like me, you are entitled to your opinion.


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  15. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by justbeachy View Post
    I completely disagree with this. I think we all know that cute, sweet AMERICAN girls can be evil. This isn't about blaming it on a "black guy from the Ivory Coast" at all. It is about the case and the evidence and the way the evidence was handled. Your comments really rubbed me the wrong way, but, just like me, you are entitled to your opinion.

    In all honesty im only basing my opinion on comments ive read on different forums. I didnt say that all Americans thought that way because i know for a fact many dont.
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


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  17. #636
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    justbeachy is offline "It's good to see me, isn't it? No need to respond; that was rhetorical."
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    On a lighter note: the reporters continuously referred to Amanda as a blue-eyed blonde. She's a brunette!!! Or am I color-blind?!?

    This is of absolutely no importance. Just something that annoyed me.

    Carry on.


  18. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by justbeachy View Post
    On a lighter note: the reporters continuously referred to Amanda as a blue-eyed blonde. She's a brunette!!! Or am I color-blind?!?

    This is of absolutely no importance. Just something that annoyed me.

    Carry on.
    On some photos of her when she was in America her hair looked a lot lighter but in court she was definetly dark. Very dark even.
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


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  19. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitbits View Post
    And the irony is that Europeans can be just as racist! I'm thinking of, oh, I don't know...Spanish football fans who black up & heckle Afro-Caribbean players on several occasions. I'm thinking of, oh, say Jean-Marie le Pen & his National Front or the British National Party (BNP). And let me not forget co-workers who use terms like 'Paki' or 'Chinky'...UGH!!!!!

    I could go on, but you get the picture.

    Just because there are no Jim Crow laws, etc, doesn't mean that racist and stereotypical behaviours aren't rampant, and that's true for any country. Europe isn't always the enlightened utopia it likes to make itself out to be. And I'm saying this as an American ex-pat living in the UK, btw.

    However, having said that, I am not disagreeing with you. Just pointing out my personal observations over the past several years.
    Just a couple of things i want to say about your post quickly. Yes the "Paki" word was used a lot 20 or so years ago. Until 8 years ago i lived in a city very populated with Asians. There was over 10 thousand apparently. I never once heard the word paki in all the time i lived there and in addition you can get taken to court for calling someone that.

    Regarding the BNP that is just a small minority group in Britain that are total morons and should be banned. I think some of the problems we have here at the moment are causing unrest so more join them thinking they have a point. But really they dont
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


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  21. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily Booth View Post
    I've been following this crime since day one when it was posted at Steve Huff's blog. We had an international group of commenters following this crime back then. I'm very happy w/ the verdict. The Italians arrived at the correct conclusion. Justice was served.
    I did too Emily and remember posting with you there.

    Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. I agree. I am glad for this verdict.
    This bee my opinion


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  23. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitbits View Post
    And the irony is that Europeans can be just as racist! I'm thinking of, oh, I don't know...Spanish football fans who black up & heckle Afro-Caribbean players on several occasions. I'm thinking of, oh, say Jean-Marie le Pen & his National Front or the British National Party (BNP). And let me not forget co-workers who use terms like 'Paki' or 'Chinky'...UGH!!!!!

    I could go on, but you get the picture.

    Just because there are no Jim Crow laws, etc, doesn't mean that racist and stereotypical behaviours aren't rampant, and that's true for any country. Europe isn't always the enlightened utopia it likes to make itself out to be. And I'm saying this as an American ex-pat living in the UK, btw.

    However, having said that, I am not disagreeing with you. Just pointing out my personal observations over the past several years.
    I'm with you. My parents are from Europe so I am well aware of the history of racism there as well. Le Pen in particular galls me.
    However, in the last fifty years or so, Europe did not have the same kind of state-sanctioned laws based on race that we did.
    That is now starting to change due to an anti-immigrant backlash over there. For example, a new-nazi party is getting a toe-hold in Hungarian politics at present.
    Nevertheless, we are known as a racist nation in a blatant way by other countries. In Western Europe, blacks were not discriminated against legally as they were here (except in Germany), during the height of U.S. segregation.
    As a side note, Spaniards are about as un-PC as anyone can get. Nicknames are given often based on physical or other characteristics such as "Gordo" or fatty and "Juan el enano" or John the dwarf. They often use race in jest in a way that would appall modern Americans but they would not dream of actual discrimination or hate crimes, etc, for the most part and are sickened by what they perceive to be on-going racism a la the lack of response to poor and/or black victims of hurricane Katrina.
    So, I understand the reputation we have over there and why they may feel we would rather have some black guy found accused than a cute, white American girl.
    Tha being said, I do not believe that is the primary motivation for many who support AK's innocence.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being.


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  25. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia View Post
    Yes, the mafia is from Italy and has been prevalent there over the years, as it has been here. But to say the Italian justice system has not attempted to control the problem the best they can (with the evidence available) and prosecute those responsible for mafia crimes is just not true. After the Ciaculli massacre, in 1963, right around the time of what is considered to be the 'first big mafia war' when a bunch of policemen were killed trying to defuse a car bomb actually meant for another mobster, almost 2000 mafioso were arrested, charged and convicted of thousands of crimes. Then in 1967 there was the huge trial of mafioso which centered on their involvement in the heroin trade (though admittedly evidence was very thin and all were acquitted). More recently there was the Maxi trial, in the mid 80s, which resulted in over 300 convictions of mafioso. Heck, in the 1920s Mussolini sent one of his top commanders to Sicily to combat the problems with the mafia, and the guy he sent was known for his tough-as-nails, iron-fisted tactics against mafioso. And these are only a couple of examples.

    Just because the mafia came from Italy does NOT mean the Italian officials have just allowed the violence and racketeering to go on - the Italian government, over the years, has spent a mint trying to combat these criminals. No, they haven't 'solved' the problem yet, but has America 'solved' the drug problem here? No. That doesn't mean America isn't trying to fight it as best they can though. (Not that I believe the drug war does any good at all, and I'm for legalization/non-criminalization, but that's another story and entirely off-topic).

    Finally, to compare the problem of the mafioso to Amanda Knox being convicted is ludicrous. One is a very sophisticated, clandestine group of very organized criminals with a wealth of money at their hands, the other a young female who murdered her roommate. Though they are/were, I guess, both dealt with by Italy's justice system, it makes no sense to say BECAUSE Italy's justice system has not been successful in eradicating the mafia THEN that same justice system must be entirely incompetent when trying Amanda Knox in the murder of Meredith Kercher.

    ETA: Where are all the people sticking up for the boyfriend Sollecito? He's a young person just starting out in life, just like Amanda. Where's the sympathy for him? Oh wait, there is none, because he's not American. If Amanda was "railroaded" because she is American, that means Italy "railroaded" Sollecito...why? Because he's Italian? Really?
    Pretty good points made, especially the last paragraph. Sollecito is one of their own and yet he too was convicted. Makes one wonder.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being.


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  27. #642
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    Originally Posted by Isabella
    I agree there is a difference in where you come from on whether you believe the verdict or not. It seems to me..that Americans..or some would rather put all the blame on a black guy from the Ivory Coast rather than accept a American girl could have been involved in this. And then because she is..then its like well Amandas not guilty its just the Italians are corrupt blah blah blah.

    Quote Originally Posted by [B
    justbeachy[/B];4527717]I completely disagree with this. I think we all know that cute, sweet AMERICAN girls can be evil. This isn't about blaming it on a "black guy from the Ivory Coast" at all. It is about the case and the evidence and the way the evidence was handled. Your comments really rubbed me the wrong way, but, just like me, you are entitled to your opinion.
    IMHO you are both correct because all types of people exist and their views will differ, Yes many will say the black guy, and other will say the evidence is not there....but knowing the code of law in that region is key. I do not know it but, seems that accessory to murder is punishable same as murder in the first degree. So they all got a very similar verdict.

    I have not followed the case throughout the 2 years, but only in the very beginning and end. so I am not knowing how they came about a verdict. but it seems to me that many feel it was not a well done job and as a result justice was not served.
    But if all 3 were participating on some level regardless as to who did the deed? they are all punished. I am just saying, and I am sure many are outraged especially her family.

    RIP Meridith
    Last edited by songline; 12-05-2009 at 09:06 PM.
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    we simply continue to fly... on a broomstick.

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  28. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by gigi103 View Post
    I realize we only saw a tiny portion of AK's statement before the jury went to deliberate, but I found the piece we did see incredibly odd. The whole bit about "people wonder how I cope," and her concern about being forced to wear the mask of a murderer. I understand that's she's fighting for her life so her thoughts are on her own survival, but... The intense "me" focus was really off-putting in that context.

    I can't understand why she hasn't been advised better. The way she dressed throughout the trial, the constant smiling for the cameras... This stuff doesn't make her guilty, but I think it really hurt her. It is reminiscent of Casey Anthony in that I watch her behavior and think, how can you ACT better? Sarah Johnson (I may have the name wrong) who killed her parents in Idaho a couple years back is another example. The funeral plans were cramping her style, etc. It's striking how different the behavior of these women is from, say, Susan Smith who didn't give an Oscar caliber performance but at least went through the motions of emulating appropriate behavior.
    I wonder about that too. It raises huge red flags for me. As an attorney, one of my main goals at trial is controlling the appearance and attitudes of my clients, and I'm in family law! I even have a section in my retainer agreement which mandates that they have to follow my lead regarding personal appearance/clothes at court. Surely AK and her team, including that famous American defense attorney (former prosecutor on NG all the time), could have advised her and/or ponied up some cash for some simple, conservative clothing. Also, I have to imagine she was counseled as to her demeanor in court. After all, her antics were splashed all over the news, constantly. So, she must have been aware of how she was being perceived. That she could not change her demeanor accordingly and present a more sober, saddened aspect makes me think she is nutty and/or narcisstic ala casey Anthony.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being.


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  30. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by iluvmua View Post
    so does Amanda only get to stay in jail for 2 years? or am I missing something?
    They anticipate that She will be there another 2 years before another trial.
    she has already been there, 2 years.
    Women are Angels.
    And when someone breaks our wings,
    we simply continue to fly... on a broomstick.

    We're flexible like that.


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  32. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    I wonder about that too. It raises huge red flags for me. As an attorney, one of my main goals at trial is controlling the appearance and attitudes of my clients, and I'm in family law! I even have a section in my retainer agreement which mandates that they have to follow my lead regarding personal appearance/clothes at court. Surely AK and her team, including that famous American defense attorney (former prosecutor on NG all the time), could have advised her and/or ponied up some cash for some simple, conservative clothing. Also, I have to imagine she was counseled as to her demeanor in court. After all, her antics were splashed all over the news, constantly. So, she must have been aware of how she was being perceived. That she could not change her demeanor accordingly and present a more sober, saddened aspect makes me think she is nutty and/or narcisstic ala casey Anthony.
    amen! too bad you couldn't have coached her (if that was remotely possible given her personality).

    She was one hot mess during the entire trial in my honest opinon. (and I sooo felt this way that I typed it out long hand instead of IMHO. She was a hot mess the entire way thru.. and I bet her personality issues have the MOST to do with it. A lawyer cannot control facial expressions to date. The clothing and hair.. also pure Amanda Knox.)
    This bee my opinion


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  34. #646
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    Just one question if anyone knows, or can point me in the right direction ~ how long will she be in prison? The full 26 years or do they have parole like here in the US?
    Rest in Peace
    Joey, Summer, Gianni & Joseph Mateo



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    Quote Originally Posted by songline View Post
    Originally Posted by Isabella
    I agree there is a difference in where you come from on whether you believe the verdict or not. It seems to me..that Americans..or some would rather put all the blame on a black guy from the Ivory Coast rather than accept a American girl could have been involved in this. And then because she is..then its like well Amandas not guilty its just the Italians are corrupt blah blah blah.



    IMHO you are both correct because all types of people exist and their views will differ, Yes many will say the black guy, and other will say the evidence is not there....but knowing the code of law in that region is key. I do not know it but, seems that accessory to murder is punishable same as murder in the first degree. So they all got a very similar verdict.

    I have not followed the case throughout the 2 years, but only in the very beginning and end. so I am not knowing how they came about a verdict. but it seems to me that many feel it was not a well done job and as a result justice was not served.
    But if all 3 were participating on some level regardless as to who did the deed? they are all punished. I am just saying, and I am sure many are outraged especially her family.

    RIP Meridith
    In all honesty having followed the case closely ive no doubt the correct verdict was reached. I dont know why her family would be outraged. I mean who raised her to be a liar and not to face up to her own actions? Who shouts the mouth off at the Italians? Yes her family and they are getting sued also apparently.

    Yes if all three are involved..they would get the same punishment probably and lets not forget...the theory is that Amanda let them in the house so without her help it could not have happened. Its also believed she helped to clean up and her prints were found on a weapon.

    Personally the only people i think have the right to be enraged are the Kerchers and Patrick Lumbaba.
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


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  37. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by songline View Post
    They anticipate that She will be there another 2 years before another trial.
    she has already been there, 2 years.
    There saying here the appeal will probably be the end of next year.
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
    say that because I know how I would react. I'm a lot
    like my sister as far as how we would react.


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  39. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by panthera View Post
    Just one question if anyone knows, or can point me in the right direction ~ how long will she be in prison? The full 26 years or do they have parole like here in the US?
    Not sure but for such a brutal crime...i would be surprised if she served less than 20 years ( depending on appeals of course).

    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/412696_knox30.html
    Last edited by Isabella; 12-05-2009 at 09:35 PM.
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
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    like my sister as far as how we would react.


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  40. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    Its also been reported that she threatened a guy with a knife in Italy.

    I agree there is a difference in where you come from on whether you believe the verdict or not. It seems to me..that Americans..or some would rather put all the blame on a black guy from the Ivory Coast rather than accept a American girl could have been involved in this. And then because she is..then its like well Amandas not guilty its just the Italians are corrupt blah blah blah.
    bbm
    Excuse me? I can't let this one go - not this American.
    Didn't they confirm that this guy's semen was found inside the victim? If so, that fact would cast suspicion,
    not the color of his skin.

    If I have the facts wrong or I'm talking about the wrong guy, I apologize.


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