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  1. #661
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    An article in one of our Sunday papers which i think is quite good

    http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news...der-trial.html
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  2. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    Well Guede claims that he had consensual sex with Meredith and then went to the bathroom..and whilst in there the other pair killed Meredith and that he was afraid to go and help her. (Yea i know lol) but the one thing i would say maybe..yes his sperm was inside her..but..that could have happened earlier in the day in theory and yet he never did deny he was in the apartment at the time of the murder. He asked for a fast track trial as he thought he was going to get framed by Amanda which after Lumbaba i can understand.

    The prosecution claim that it was Amanda who let Guede in the apartment. She denies that she knew Guede before it happened but..the day before Meredith was killed a main claims that he was threatened with a knife by Amanda and that Guede and the bf were with her. He testified to that in court also.
    I heard something new about Guede on the show (48 Hours) I just watched and that was that his DNA was found inside her body and "his fingerprints were found inside her purse". I didn't know about the fingerprints in the purse from reading today but may have missed that info.

    Something that is bothering me is that Senator Maria Cantwell(sp) is shown saying that she is going to work on establishing that "any American when tried abroad has access to a fair trial by an impartial jury ...". Yes, I would like this for all people but was always taught that when you travel in another country, you are to famillarize yourself with their laws and customs and always be on your best behavior. This entails dressing in a way that is polite and does not draw attention to yourself as an ugly American (ie sloppy). I would never think to try to impose any superiority upon an authority in another country.

    I don't think it's a good idea to let an underage person live in a foreign country unsupervised - too risky imo.
    Last edited by Woe.be.gone; 12-06-2009 at 12:39 AM.


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  4. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    I wonder about that too. It raises huge red flags for me. As an attorney, one of my main goals at trial is controlling the appearance and attitudes of my clients, and I'm in family law! I even have a section in my retainer agreement which mandates that they have to follow my lead regarding personal appearance/clothes at court. Surely AK and her team, including that famous American defense attorney (former prosecutor on NG all the time), could have advised her and/or ponied up some cash for some simple, conservative clothing. Also, I have to imagine she was counseled as to her demeanor in court. After all, her antics were splashed all over the news, constantly. So, she must have been aware of how she was being perceived. That she could not change her demeanor accordingly and present a more sober, saddened aspect makes me think she is nutty and/or narcisstic ala casey Anthony.
    you know, at first, i was wondering why she didn't dress nicer, but now i'm thinking that if she did, she would have been given hell for that too, for trying to be someone she isn't.
    as someone who has been following this case from the beginning, i think that GIVEN THE EVIDENCE, she should have been found not guilty. there was not enough physical evidence against her. and after watching the sloppy evidence collecting, i'm surprised anything even got into court. they left a piece of her bra on the floor for six weeks and then passed it around!
    and as far as the other stuff that doesn't make sense, there are so many reasons that the window was broken. maybe RG had tried to break into the house earlier that day. he could have been following her for days, no one knows. and as for AK's behavior, she is nutty. she is one of those un-unique unique people hwho feel the need to be different to get attention, and she got attention alright...

    and did anyone see the show on ID about the judge and how corrupt he is? in fact he is under investigation for corruption...
    Last edited by ajurk; 12-06-2009 at 12:39 AM. Reason: forgot about the judge


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  6. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    I heard something new about Guede on the show (48 Hours) I just watched and that was that his DNA was found inside her body and "his fingerprints were found inside her purse". I didn't know about the fingerprints in the purse from reading today but may have missed that info.

    Something that is bothering me is that Senator Maria Cantwell(sp) is shown saying that she is going to work on establishing that "any American when tried abroad has access to a fair trial by an impartial jury ...". Yes, I would like this for all people but was always taught that when you travel in another country, you are to famillarize yourself with their laws and customs and always be on your best behavior. This entails dressing in a way that is polite and does not draw attention to yourself as an ugly American (ie sloppy). I would never think to try to impose any superiority upon an authority in another country.

    I don't think it's a good idea to let an underage person live in a foreign country unsupervised - too risky imo.
    Anyone who visits our country is expected to abide by our laws. And it is up to them to find out what those laws are. If they do something illegal, they are subjected to our legal system.


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  8. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew View Post
    Anyone who visits our country is expected to abide by our laws. And it is up to them to find out what those laws are. If they do something illegal, they are subjected to our legal system.
    I know that. Why are you pointing that out to me? I express within my post that people are to obey the laws of the country they are visiting. Is my post unclear?


  9. #666
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    I've seen quite a few people reference her inappropriate court attire. I'm curious because I haven't seen anything I would consider inappropriate. I must've missed a few pics. Can anyone link to pics of her dressed this way?


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  11. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    I know that. Why are you pointing that out to me? I express within my post that people are to obey the laws of the country they are visiting. Is my post unclear?
    Sorry Woe.Be.Gone I probably should have been more specific. I was commenting more on/to Senator Maria Cantwell than I was to you. I just don't think we should be holding citizens from other countries to higher standards than we hold our own citizens.


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  13. #668
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    One thing that really bothers me about this whole thing is many American's reaction to the Italian legal system. It seems to me that a lot of Americans think the Italians are incapable of reaching a fair verdict if an American is involved. I'm sure the jurors didn't go into the jury room and say: "Ok we all know we're gonna find AK guilty because she's an American, so let's work on the Italian guys innocence." JMO

    Quote Originally Posted by missyjane77 View Post
    The Senator knows which side her bread is buttered on. Most of the people in her district, I believe, think the verdict is a travesty. She's grandstanding for the next election. If the majority of her district believed the verdict was fair she wouldn't be doing that. JMO

    Quote Originally Posted by MomofBoys View Post
    I see so much focus in the pro-Amanda articles about the DNA on the knife and how Meredith's DNA was destroyed as a result of the testing, but to me that's the least convincing part of the case.

    Her confession and her lies and the blame-casting and her behavior after the fact just isn't consistent with an innocent person. And while most of that is completely circumstansial, I can't reconcile all of it with her innocence. It's like "Yes, this is weak and this is weak and that's not a smoking gun and this could have been coerced" but there's enough in concert to make brushing all of it away seem almost denial-esque.

    It's certainly a tough one, but after reading other boards I come away thinking that so many of Amanda's biggest supporters are basing their support not in the fact that they don't believe unequivocally in her innocence, but because they can't trust in Italy's objectivity. Which is fair, I guess, but it's making it this 'us v. them' thing that has nothing to do with the crime. I think this crime, committed in America and tried in America, would be widely seen as less confounding. I have to admit that any language barrier I see is my own. It's harder to follow when the proceedings are in another language and you don't trust the press. The U.S. press is really giving her such a soft ride.
    BBM Totally agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    In all honesty im only basing my opinion on comments ive read on different forums. I didnt say that all Americans thought that way because i know for a fact many dont.
    IMO, prejudice in America has moved from being acceptable in public to behind the eyes. The vast majority of Americans, IMO, are not prejudice to an extent that they want to keep people down but there is a lot more prejudice here than people are willing to admit.

    The acceptable prejudice is against middle eastern people and gays. I have a friend who had to flee Libya in the middle of the night leaving his possessions behind because he was non committal on his support for Ghadafi and yet people view him as a bomb thrower. I also have gay friends who don't fit the "stereotype". If they were a man and woman nobody would have a problem with them. They both work, they both vacation together and the other things hetero couples do but because they are gay many people think it's disgusting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mia View Post
    Yes, the mafia is from Italy and has been prevalent there over the years, as it has been here. But to say the Italian justice system has not attempted to control the problem the best they can (with the evidence available) and prosecute those responsible for mafia crimes is just not true. After the Ciaculli massacre, in 1963, right around the time of what is considered to be the 'first big mafia war' when a bunch of policemen were killed trying to defuse a car bomb actually meant for another mobster, almost 2000 mafioso were arrested, charged and convicted of thousands of crimes. Then in 1967 there was the huge trial of mafioso which centered on their involvement in the heroin trade (though admittedly evidence was very thin and all were acquitted). More recently there was the Maxi trial, in the mid 80s, which resulted in over 300 convictions of mafioso. Heck, in the 1920s Mussolini sent one of his top commanders to Sicily to combat the problems with the mafia, and the guy he sent was known for his tough-as-nails, iron-fisted tactics against mafioso. And these are only a couple of examples.

    Just because the mafia came from Italy does NOT mean the Italian officials have just allowed the violence and racketeering to go on - the Italian government, over the years, has spent a mint trying to combat these criminals. No, they haven't 'solved' the problem yet, but has America 'solved' the drug problem here? No. That doesn't mean America isn't trying to fight it as best they can though. (Not that I believe the drug war does any good at all, and I'm for legalization/non-criminalization, but that's another story and entirely off-topic).

    Finally, to compare the problem of the mafioso to Amanda Knox being convicted is ludicrous. One is a very sophisticated, clandestine group of very organized criminals with a wealth of money at their hands, the other a young female who murdered her roommate. Though they are/were, I guess, both dealt with by Italy's justice system, it makes no sense to say BECAUSE Italy's justice system has not been successful in eradicating the mafia THEN that same justice system must be entirely incompetent when trying Amanda Knox in the murder of Meredith Kercher.

    ETA: Where are all the people sticking up for the boyfriend Sollecito? He's a young person just starting out in life, just like Amanda. Where's the sympathy for him? Oh wait, there is none, because he's not American. If Amanda was "railroaded" because she is American, that means Italy "railroaded" Sollecito...why? Because he's Italian? Really?
    BBM

    The Americans haven't eliminated the mob either. Your ETA is right on!

    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    In all honesty having followed the case closely ive no doubt the correct verdict was reached. I dont know why her family would be outraged. I mean who raised her to be a liar and not to face up to her own actions? Who shouts the mouth off at the Italians? Yes her family and they are getting sued also apparently.

    Yes if all three are involved..they would get the same punishment probably and lets not forget...the theory is that Amanda let them in the house so without her help it could not have happened. Its also believed she helped to clean up and her prints were found on a weapon.

    Personally the only people i think have the right to be enraged are the Kerchers and Patrick Lumbaba.
    I believe that 99.9% of parents on the globe wouldn't be able to believe that their child was guilty of such a heinous act. If this had happened in America her parents would be blaming the American system of law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    One thing I don't understand is why some Americans think AK was falsely convicted when the court also convicted the Italian boyfriend - correct?

    The conclusion was that they both were involved and both were convicted. Would the Italians put one of their own away in order to falsely punish a young American? That doesn't make sense to me. Now if they had put her away but not him, that would be more cause for alarm, no?
    Not to mention the son of a very wealthy Italian. All of his father's wealth couldn't free his kid.

    If the verdict had come down giving AK 26 years and her boyfriend 2 years then there would be a serious question about the Italian justice system, but that didn't happen.



    Quote Originally Posted by thesaint View Post
    Most likely after exhausting her appeals--there are 2 levels of appeals, provided a new trial isn't ordered, correct?

    she'll be done with appeals in what, 4 years?

    By then she'll have served 6 years. I wouldn't be surprised if the prosecution/court agree to reduce her sentence in exchange for a full mea culpa. That is, Foxy Knoxy fully and truthfully (ha, see if she can do that) confess and acknowledge her role in Meredith's murder and her sentence gets reduced. Of course, they'd likely consult Meredith's family on the matter first and provided they had no objections, they'd cut a deal with Amanda to spill all and then maybe cut her sentence in half and kick her free after a decade or so.

    The other side of that is they'll likely work on the boyfriend with the same sort of deal--they might even make his sweeter and sooner, if he's willing to confess and explain what happened that night.

    Which if the bf beats Amanda to the punch, she won't get any mercy at all. Although that would depend what story the bf told and how verifiable it was--maybe he has a smoking gun piece of physical evidence stashed away somewhere. Or maybe when he tells his story it rings so true and matches the known evidence and facts so well...who knows.
    I agree. If that happens a lot of people will talk about how she only confessed because she wanted the deal and she still didn't do it, no matter how closely her story matches the facts.

    If her BF gets the deal people will say he's framing her in order to get a deal.

    I don't think there's much chance of swaying a lot of people's opinions one way or the other from what they now believe.
    Last edited by Steely Dan; 12-06-2009 at 06:10 AM.


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  15. #669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Dan
    One thing that really bothers me about this whole thing is many American's reaction to the Italian legal system. It seems to me that a lot of Americans think the Italians are incapable of reaching a fair verdict if an American is involved. I'm sure the jurors didn't go into the jury room and say: "Ok we all know we're gonna find AK guilty because she's an American, so let's work on the Italian guys innocence." JMO ....
    What is perhaps more disturbing in the long run is Americans assuming that anything happened in Perugia that doesn't happen in the U.S. Even if one totally accepts all criticisms of the AK prosecution--abusive interrogation, out-of-control prosecutor, LE manipulating evidence to support theory of guilt, sloppy handling of scientific evidence--every one of these problems is all too common in the American judicial system as well.

    Personally, I'm new to this case and don't have an opinion as to AK's guilt. But I suspect few if any of us know what we might say or sign after "53 hours of interrogation over 5 days". I got that figure from Isabella's link above. That's over 10-and-a-half hours of grilling per day!
    Last edited by Nova; 12-06-2009 at 06:56 AM.


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  17. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    What is perhaps more disturbing in the long run is Americans assuming that anything happened in Perugia that doesn't happen in the U.S. Even if one totally accepts all criticisms of the AK prosecution--abusive interrogation, out-of-control prosecutor, LE manipulating evidence to support theory of guilt, sloppy handling of scientific evidence--every one of these problems is all too common in the American judicial system as well.

    Personally, I'm new to this case and don't have an opinion as to AK's guilt. But I suspect few if any of us know what we might say or sign after "53 hours of interrogation over 5 days". I got that figure from Isabella's link above. That's over 10-and-a-half hours of grilling per day!

    I always found..telling the truth helped.

    Had she not kept changing her story and blaming innocent people im sure she wouldnt been questioned so long.
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  19. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    I heard something new about Guede on the show (48 Hours) I just watched and that was that his DNA was found inside her body and "his fingerprints were found inside her purse". I didn't know about the fingerprints in the purse from reading today but may have missed that info.

    Something that is bothering me is that Senator Maria Cantwell(sp) is shown saying that she is going to work on establishing that "any American when tried abroad has access to a fair trial by an impartial jury ...". Yes, I would like this for all people but was always taught that when you travel in another country, you are to famillarize yourself with their laws and customs and always be on your best behavior. This entails dressing in a way that is polite and does not draw attention to yourself as an ugly American (ie sloppy). I would never think to try to impose any superiority upon an authority in another country.

    I don't think it's a good idea to let an underage person live in a foreign country unsupervised - too risky imo.
    I personally think the Senator should be keeping her mouth shut. She talks about Anti Americanism well sorry but her remarks are going to encourage it.
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
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  21. #672
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajurk View Post
    you know, at first, i was wondering why she didn't dress nicer, but now i'm thinking that if she did, she would have been given hell for that too, for trying to be someone she isn't.
    as someone who has been following this case from the beginning, i think that GIVEN THE EVIDENCE, she should have been found not guilty. there was not enough physical evidence against her. and after watching the sloppy evidence collecting, i'm surprised anything even got into court. they left a piece of her bra on the floor for six weeks and then passed it around!
    and as far as the other stuff that doesn't make sense, there are so many reasons that the window was broken. maybe RG had tried to break into the house earlier that day. he could have been following her for days, no one knows. and as for AK's behavior, she is nutty. she is one of those un-unique unique people hwho feel the need to be different to get attention, and she got attention alright...

    and did anyone see the show on ID about the judge and how corrupt he is? in fact he is under investigation for corruption...
    I do know that Amanda Knox family are being sued for making allegations against the Italian system for making false allegations so i just hope that any programme makers are getting there facts right or they could be next..quite rightfully.

    Funny thing is..if this is judge is as corrupt as you claim..why not take a bribe from the wealthy bfs family? Or from Amandas supporters?

    No Amanda is not nutty. Shes a evil pyschological killer. You may not agree with me but the jury thinks otherwise. She is a lieing callous girl who has no thoughts for anyone else but her own survival
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  23. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    Ok i want to put a question to you now. I am English. I am using Neil Entwhistle as an example cause hes the only Brit i can think of in prison there at the moment. But after his trial how would you like it if the Brits said after the trial he only got found guilty because they hate us over there? Or that we thought the cops framed him? Or that we thought he had no chance of a fair trial? Or hey America isnt England so it cant be a fair trial?

    I want to stress i have every confidence in the American courts and that i thought he was guilty but im just using that as an example.

    I just think the crap the Italians are getting for daring to find Amanda guilty is crazy. And you know something..the local people..for which her co-accused was one...actually CHEERED the verdict and prosecutors. There not standing there making excuses at all. It's funny how it goes.

    Oh and as for would it be viewed differently if it was in the middle East sure. She probably would have ended up the same way as Meredith as a sentence. Dead!
    I believe everyone is capable of murder, doesnít matter your color. Iím not going to get into a race discussion with you. Thatís not what this is about to me. This crap happens in America as well. Itís about getting justice for Meredith. Justice was not serviced when Amanda Knox was found guilty.

    The interrogation was inhuman, the handling by LE was unprofessional and showed bias, the evidence was not there.

    Besides to compare Neil Entwistleís case to this case is like comparing apples to oranges.

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  25. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    bbm
    Excuse me? I can't let this one go - not this American.
    Didn't they confirm that this guy's semen was found inside the victim? If so, that fact would cast suspicion,
    not the color of his skin.

    If I have the facts wrong or I'm talking about the wrong guy, I apologize.
    Yeah..you have the facts wrong

    Guede...the guy who is doing 30 years...is also Black..and it was his semen found

    Patrick, Amanda's boss at the pub, is the guy she falsely accused

    she also claimed at first that she was there at the apartment and watched Patrick rape and kill Meredith...then she changed that

    Patrick had nothing to do with it, she just was angry cause he was about to fire her and possibly hire Meredith

    ~~~~
    Regarding her crazy antics...I remember when she was delighted at all the letters and even marriage proposals being sent to the prison there....she seems to be a sociopath to me
    and I am glad that justice was served...Italian style


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    I am 2nd generation and love America...I take NO responsibility for what happened during the Civil war since my own family was starving in the Irish Famine during those years


    I can see both sides...but I do dislike Europeans telling us about our "racial problems" when the slave sellers were Dutch and English. No Irish people were selling slaves..in fact the last "white" slaves were taken from Ireland in the 1400's , 10,000 stolen from rural Ireland, and shipped to Barbados and Monserrat...which is why many Island people have light eyes, last names like Kelly and Monserrat is the only other country besides Ireland that has St Patricks as a National Holiday <grin> so thanks England

    as a history major I can only say that reading European History is not fun...from the Inquistion to the colonization of most of the world, to the folks who brought us World War 1 and 2....it ain't pretty

    we have our own problems however..and one is that many Americans fail to realize that other countries have a different legal system. Even Canada is different..they are appalled that we show court trials on tv and give out so much info.
    Much of the world is appalled that we still have the death penalty (I am not LOL, but the fact is that most "civilized" countries no longer have death penalty)


    Many European countries use Judges only rather than the untrained "jury"....France for instance.

    Some European countries, like Italy, use non political "Prosecutors" who run the whole investigation...they have a jury but they have legally trained Judges on the jury who provide legal guidelines

    Interrogation is different in other countries...you read British Mysteries and they bring in people to "assist the police"...well that means they are interrogating them before they arrest them....they might bring in tons of people and "interrogate them" for hours or days...they don't have to arrest them to hold them...this results in lots less "records"...here in the US they have to arrest you but then they might "drop the charges"...so in one sense their way is good, it leaves a lot less people with "records" of arrests

    The point is...if you don't want to do the time, don't go out of here and do the crime. Just as foolish people ranted bout Aruba..which is far safer than most American cities, and one of the safest islands, now they will rant about Italy. Really ridiculous

    When you leave the USA...you leave OUR laws..such as they are

    and if you come to Texas or Florida where I live, you might get the needle instead of life in prison

    If you wish to get a liberal weepy jury and a slap on the wrist, some of the New England states like Vermont are a good bet IMHO

    cause things are not the same from state to state here

    we have lots of foreign people here and we proscecute them...the Finnish guy who kidnapped his son here in Florida is the latest...Finland, like much of Scandanavia, might have more liberal rules than us

    We will use our laws to prosecute him...not Finlands. We have tons of Mexicans, and south Americans here in prisons..and we use our laws. Here in Florida, we have executed some of them...interesting that they don't have the death penalty in Mexico or South America isn't it??

    I think that most Americans would do well to read the facts of this case. Also , for those non Americans on the board, we would appreciate it if you don't lump us into one pile, thanks
    Last edited by LogicalMinds; 12-06-2009 at 09:39 AM.


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