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  1. #196
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by badhorsie View Post
    I would go to the Vigil but obviously cannot! If I could send a card could someone pm me with details of where to send it. I'd like to do something for this little boy

    And I would like to send a card and light a candle here in England for this dear little lad who haunts me
    England's dancing days are done...


  2. #197
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    Sorry for my ignorance but does anyone know the cause of death on the death cert.?
    England's dancing days are done...


  3. #198
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    hey, dr jimmy--yep! good ol' dna but yeah, what's the use if no one is around for comparisons still...old cold cases do get solved, so...*fingers crossed*

    & yes, badhorsie...no doubt...poor little mite i really hope he finds a 'home' in our lifetime.
    'Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last.' Dr Samuel Johnson


  4. #199
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    Though I agree that economic downturns could have affected a family's ability to give the child a proper burial, I still can't see leaving him in a cardboard box amongst the trash.


  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by amethyst View Post
    Though I agree that economic downturns could have affected a family's ability to give the child a proper burial, I still can't see leaving him in a cardboard box amongst the trash.
    That bit does bother me, so I do have to agree with your point, amethyst. The city surely would have taken on that responsibility for the family.
    'Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last.' Dr Samuel Johnson


  6. #201
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    Oh I am completely with you and have been since I started digging into his case-if you go back into the thread DR, you will see where I started digging into ethnic burial rituals to see if that explained the washing and haircut. I found an obscure sect of Judaism that migrated to the Philly area in the 40's and 50's and thought that this might be an answer-then I was told by someone close to the case that one of the detectives had explored that avenue as well in the 60's-talk about reinventing the wheel,lol!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Jimmy View Post
    Hi Beleive09,

    I am so pleased that I am not alone on this one... I did feel raising my head and saying what I did might have given people cause to feel upset and send me some non too polite comments back.

    I think it is all too easy to jump on the same bandwagon and say he was tortored or beaten to death... but the evidence contradicts this theory!

    I am sorry if this offends peoples theorys... but he was LOVED... we can only try and understand why he was left the way he was.

    But he was washed and cleaned... almost ready for a burial... but something happend and this never occured...

    What was the social aspect at the time... was there plenty of work in the area...

    I am looking at this case from accross the sea's and can only read and find so much information... but someone living in the area at the same time might understand what the social climate was like far better than me...
    email me


    Long Lost Love: The Bob Harrod Story Disappeared/ID Network
    Amazon: Purchase Long Lost Love $1.99


    Bob Harrod SAR


    “The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.”
    ― Maya Angelou


  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by badhorsie View Post
    Sorry for my ignorance but does anyone know the cause of death on the death cert.?
    IIRC in David Stout's book it is listed as blunt force trauma to the head. I keep going back to the 360 degrees we have of him online and in print and cannot see where this is the case-BUT of course one of the original detectives would carry the XRAYS of his head and a plaster cast of his face in his suitcase, so there must be something to it...I wish some of that would be made public, but I suppose if VIDOQ cannot dispel this as a COD, then myself as an armchair detective could not either.

    I would love to see if they could do some genetic testing to see if he had hemophilia or leukemia or something else....
    email me


    Long Lost Love: The Bob Harrod Story Disappeared/ID Network
    Amazon: Purchase Long Lost Love $1.99


    Bob Harrod SAR


    “The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.”
    ― Maya Angelou


  8. #203
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    Don't get me wrong... I feel leaving him in the box the way they did was wrong, but I do feel that they were on route to bury the child somewhere more private when perhaps they got disturbed... or just got too scared...

    What were the feelings at the time towards the immigrants by the police or local community... if it was an accidental death... could they have feared going to the police?

    Are we sure that what they presumed was a blunt force trauma to the head, was in fact just lividity, I think we can all safely say that due to the lividity marks being fixed the boy had been dead for at least 12 hours...

    How many murders would they have seen back then... I imagine to even find one was pretty rare back then!


  9. #204
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    All good points-I do believe in my heart that there was a natural fear of the police in the immigrant community-Filly can speak a little more to that when she hops back onto the thread.

    I do not believe that they thought the child was trash-I think that they were frightened or unsure of what to do with him so left him. Vashley ( I think??) and I had an animated discussion regarding whether or not the bruising across his forehead were fingerprints or from ECT-I have to believe that the autopsy photos of his brain might give a clue to whether or not he was being treated with ECT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Jimmy View Post
    Don't get me wrong... I feel leaving him in the box the way they did was wrong, but I do feel that they were on route to bury the child somewhere more private when perhaps they got disturbed... or just got too scared...

    What were the feelings at the time towards the immigrants by the police or local community... if it was an accidental death... could they have feared going to the police?

    Are we sure that what they presumed was a blunt force trauma to the head, was in fact just lividity, I think we can all safely say that due to the lividity marks being fixed the boy had been dead for at least 12 hours...

    How many murders would they have seen back then... I imagine to even find one was pretty rare back then!
    email me


    Long Lost Love: The Bob Harrod Story Disappeared/ID Network
    Amazon: Purchase Long Lost Love $1.99


    Bob Harrod SAR


    “The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.”
    ― Maya Angelou


  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Jimmy View Post
    Don't get me wrong... I feel leaving him in the box the way they did was wrong, but I do feel that they were on route to bury the child somewhere more private when perhaps they got disturbed... or just got too scared...

    What were the feelings at the time towards the immigrants by the police or local community... if it was an accidental death... could they have feared going to the police?

    Are we sure that what they presumed was a blunt force trauma to the head, was in fact just lividity, I think we can all safely say that due to the lividity marks being fixed the boy had been dead for at least 12 hours...

    How many murders would they have seen back then... I imagine to even find one was pretty rare back then!
    I was a child during that era, in the next state, and health care was definitely NOT the nighmare it has become. Almost everyone could get fixed up without breaking the bank; therefore, it would have been within the reach of almost everyone to take proper care of your child - even burial arrangements.

    As for how many murders back then, well, being in proximity to Philadelphia, I'd venture a guess that the police were somewhat knowledgable, BUT, not in the way they are today. Back then NO police force had the tools, or understanding, of today's criminal procedures. By today's standards it was very primitive, at best.

    I like your idea of an immigrant child, not sure it's true, but I like it. To me the child has always looked to be of pure German or Scandanavian descent. However, that was at the tail-end of the great immigration and many families still held almost pure genetics. It would be hard to tell how long the family had been in this country. When I was growing up there were still a FEW immigrants coming into the area but not nearly as many who had almost entirely settled the area in the preceeding 40-50 years. Many, if not most of our neighborhood, and neighboring ones, was composed of immigrant families from a variety of European nations. Even so, a FEW were still straggling in. My grandfather, who spoke several languages, often helped them to settle in.

    I remember hearing stories about the "odd" customs of our immigrant neighbors. For instance, the men who did the work, would eat well, and the women and children would dine on scraps or lesser cuts. Many of the immigrant men were used to lording it over women and would try exercising their "rights" in public by insulting or threatening women whom they felt did not show them proper respect.

    All in all, it was an interesting time. Not sure I helped much, but thing were way different back then.


  11. #206
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    It's nice to have a more social understanding of events...

    Where I live I did not see anyone from another country till my early teens... there where families in Birmingham that moved there during the 1960's, but that was 20 miles away and we had no need to venture into the city... late 1980's early 1990's it suddenly became more apparent especially when I started work and attended college on a regular basis in 1993.

    It was like where the hell did these people come from....


  12. #207
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    I just want to 'jump in' and thank each of you for keeping this case ALIVE. Interesting posts...the more we talk and research the more likely someone will stumble upon this and we will get answers.

    This is definitely one that haunts me.

    Welcome Newbies! Nice to have new 'eyes'.

    Dr. J.



  13. #208
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    There are so many articles to read. So many theories. I am struck by the thought that he may have been presented as a girl. As I study the photos, the oval bruises on his forehead could have been the result of his eyebrows being forcibly plucked. They do appear to have been plucked to me. But why have him look like a girl-what reasons would there be for that? I haven't found anything yet about any searches for missing girls and I wonder if that was done at any length. Such a captivating story. Apparently I did just fall off the turnip wagon because I had not heard about this until I read this thread.


  14. #209
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    I just wanted to Bump this thread and also tell everyone that I live in the Philly area and on KYW1060 (news radio) I heard a little thing about the vigil for the little boy. I didn't catch it in full since I was in my car driving and mostly had the radio on for traffic reports and background noise. At least he is getting some media attention. I am going to go back and dig throught the thread to see if there is anything posted on the time and date for this vigil, I would like to attend if possible. Lets hope that some answers are found for him.


  15. #210
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    Wednesday, August 06, 2008

    Vigil/Memorial Service for America’s Unknown Child
    February 25, 2009 will mark the 52nd anniversary of the discovery of America's Unknown Child, originally known as The Boy in the Box.

    With the help of Louise Holmburg (www. myspace. com/findlorne), we are organizing a vigil/memorial service to be held for the little boy at the Ivy Hill Cemetery in Philadelphia, PA on February 25, 2009.

    I am beyond ecstatic that I will finally have the opportunity after all these years, to visit his gravesite and pay my respects. Louise and I are getting many positive responses from people who have an emotional attachment to this little boy's plight and it is our hope that many will join us for the service.

    It is also our hope that we will have plenty media coverage and that our boy and his unsolved case will get back out there in the public's eye.

    This little boy deserves a name.

    Thank you!
    ***Edited to add: This undertaking is in the preliminary stages; as we have more information and a finalization of our plans, it will be posted.***

    http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...ogID=422062315


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