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  1. #1
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    CO - Four killed, 5 injured in Arvada & Colorado Springs church shootings, 9 Dec 2007

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071209/...urch_shootings

    more boys & guns. no end in sight.

    so... are we gonna have to put armed security guards and metal detectors in churches, too...?

    (or should that be... mental detectors...)
    Last edited by reb; 12-09-2007 at 11:59 PM.

  2. #2
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    Thanks for the link, Reb! I can't believe there haven't been more posts on this thread! I was watching Fox News earlier tonight and they said there were 2 shootings with possibly the same suspect. One was at a Missionary and the other one was at a Church. I don't have any links, it was on Fox News.

    I figured I'd come check it out on WS, expecting to find tons of links and info. about this young shooter. Is there another thread somewhere for this topic??

    ETA quote from Reb's link:
    ARVADA, Colo. - A gunman killed two staff members at a missionary training center early Sunday after being told he couldn't spend the night, and about 12 hours later four people were shot at a busy megachurch in Colorado Springs.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    *My posts are my opinions, expressed freely thanks to the First Amendment.*

  3. #3
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    Oh my.. this is sad indeed.. Don't these killers know there is no happy ending... I guess they don't really care.. Prayers for all..


    This post is my opinion only, and is subject to making me look totally confused

  4. #4
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    On Denver local news now!!!! The Arvada shooting. Faith Bible Mission teaches young people to be missionaries. Students were all bussed to police headquarters to be interviewed.

  5. #5
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    The Lineup with Kimberly G. tonight had a little bit about it - it's still unclear (to me, anyway) if there were 2 or 3 shooters and if the 2 different church shootings are related. It's my understanding from that show that the second church shooting, which was like 12 hours later I believe, that one shooter was shot and killed and another young man was taken into custody. Not sure if either of these 2 guys was the one in the earlier Missionary shooting or not. I'm too tired to look for links right now, I'm off to bed. I'm sure we'll hear more about it tomorrow when they can release the shooter's identity.

    ETA:
    Authorities say six people, including the gunman, were shot Sunday in the second shooting of the day at a Colorado religious center. Colorado Springs Police Chief Richard Myers confirmed at a 5:40 p.m. press briefing that a church security guard shot and killed the gunman.

    SWAT officers searching the New Life campus found several suspicious devices. Myers said they were conducting a second search Sunday evening. Police are not releasing any information about what kind of weapon was used in the attack. 9NEWS has learned the gunman was dressed with a tactical helmet and body armor.

    Police are not linking the two shootings at this time.
    Source: Denver 9News
    LINKS:
    Missionary Training Center Shooting - Arvada, CO - approx. 1:00 a.m.
    The Denver Channel - Gunman Opens Fire at Missionary Church
    Denver 9News - 2 Dead at Missionary Training Camp


    New Life Church Shooting - Colorado Springs, CO - approx. 1:10 p.m.
    The Denver Channel - 6 Shot at New Life Church, Gunman Dead


    Denver 9News - 4 Dead in 2 religious center shootings
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    *My posts are my opinions, expressed freely thanks to the First Amendment.*

  6. #6
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    I thought I read on MSNBC that the two different shootings may be connected.

    I wonder if this was "spurred" by a copycat syndrome (the Omaha shooting)

    It doesn't seem like this was a mass shooting, but maybe even directed at certain people? Not sure.

    I think we are going to have to have some kind of program to catch at-risk boys and supervise them. They need, a firm, strong father figure and examples of the difference between right and wrong.

    This huge increase in mass killings is really bothering me; and I should hope would bother everyone.

  7. #7
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    well it certainly bothers me.
    what i'd like to know is.. IS there really a disproportionate # of gun violence here in the US.. compared to other countries? (or are we just not hearing about what's going on in other parts of the world?)

    if so, why is that? why, why, why, why...?
    is it solely because of the easy access to firearms?
    is it something in the water? the food? the nature of our society? all of the above? why are boys/men going crazy....?

    geez.. it's enough to make you wanna go live on the moon.

  8. #8
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    reb, I like your idea of "mental" detectors.

    This is so sad. I can barely read about it, especially after the Omaha Mall shooting. I wondered if that one would spur more, especially during this "stressful" time of year. There was a mall shooting in Columbus, OH Saturday or Sunday. One man injured, last I heard.

  9. #9
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    You do realize that this is Ted Haggard's church in Colorado Springs. From one article, there were flyers available to the Arvada Missionary Training Center at the church. I don't know if they're related or not. I did hear on WB channel 2 in Denver tonight that the families of those killed in Arvada were notified and are on their way. There was also a bit about Police, ATF and other agencies some area surrounding a house. They cut off then, but made a comment they didn't know if it was related to the shooting in Arvada.

  10. #10
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    I thought he was in rehab. Is he already out and running another church? I don't know what scares me more. Him in charge of young people, or gunmen on the loose.


  11. #11
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    Steve Huff wrote about this and cleared some things up for me:
    http://www.truecrimeweblog.com/

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taximom View Post
    Steve Huff wrote about this and cleared some things up for me:
    http://www.truecrimeweblog.com/
    Steve doesn't have the name of the first group 100% right. I think another victim was wounded, four in all.

    Don't know the toll at the Springs, but an armed security guard was said to have shot the gunman. There were seveal suspicious "packages" in the church and it was on lockdown. The shooting occured outside the church as people were getting their children from the child care area. It basically said he "opened fire".

    http://cbs4denver.com/local/shooting....2.607051.html

    http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_7677165
    I may be in error. This one does say Youth with a Mission, like Steve posted. Earlier reports called it something else.

  13. #13
    This really is a horrible, senseless crime. It makes me so angry and so very sad.

    I keep thinking how the people who lost their lives at the center in Arvada probably saved so many by turning him away or trying to. I believe I heard there were over 40 people there. He could have wiped them all out had he been allowed to spend the night. They were all very brave to take this guy on to get him out of the building.

    There is no doubt the security guard at the church saved many lives by killing the gunman, too. There were 7,000 according to the Pastor at the church at the time.

    There are many heros in both of these shootings.

    God bless all the victims and their families.

    It does sound like they are related and worse...planned out. To specifically go after the missionaries and the church who sponsors them is definitely not a coincidence. I think we will learn more horrors of these tragedies as the week progresses. It could be related to Ted H., but for some reason, I don't think so.

    They said another person in the hospital has died. :' (
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by BarnGoddess View Post
    Steve doesn't have the name of the first group 100% right. I think another victim was wounded, four in all.

    Don't know the toll at the Springs, but an armed security guard was said to have shot the gunman. There were seveal suspicious "packages" in the church and it was on lockdown. The shooting occured outside the church as people were getting their children from the child care area. It basically said he "opened fire".

    http://cbs4denver.com/local/shooting....2.607051.html

    http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_7677165
    I may be in error. This one does say Youth with a Mission, like Steve posted. Earlier reports called it something else.
    My reference was the group's website, not the news. From their site:
    Youth With A Mission ( YWAM ) Denver was founded in 1984 by Peter and Linda Warren. Since it's inception, YWAM Denver has been on the cutting edge of missions mobilization and training...
    I have made and will certainly make my mistakes, but I don't think this was one.

    Today I've read at least one law enforcement official saying the shootings may be related after all:

    "
    'Yes, there is a reason to believe that, although this is active and I can't release that,' [Police chief Don] Wick told reporters. 'Until we have evidence which conclusively ties these two events together, Arvada police will continue to follow all leads.'"

    I smell a whiff of Columbine, and not just because this was in Colorado -- though that doesn't help.

    Steve/Mr. A

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    On the Today show, they just interviewed two people who were in the parking lot during the shooting. They were 150 feet away from the shooter. The man, who was in the military for 3 years, said the gunman held his gun exactly like they were trained to in the military. His speculation was that the man had military training or at the very least was very familiar with guns.

    They were also reporting that the man who shot the people at the missionary center was angry that they wouldn't give him a dorm room to sleep in for the night.

    It should be easy, at this point, to determine if they are the same person based on eyewitnesses at the first shooting.

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