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  1. #1
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    John cut JBR down?

    Hey,

    I wa snooping around on the web today and believe it or not JMK has his own website. I was checking out the FAQ section and ran across this. Has anyone ever heard this?

    LKL Interview

    KING: Have you ever shown an interest the in the JonBenet Ramsey case?

    WALSH: You know, we were asked to do that case a year afterward to try to help the Boulder police, you know, get a couple tips on it. But I think everybody knows that the case was compromised by bad police work in the beginning. I'm not the first one to say that and I'm a great supporter of law enforcement.

    I mean, you are a detective and you go to a kidnapping of a high -- prominent family in a very wealthy area, and then, you know, police work 101, you clear the house and you clear the crime scene. She allowed the father and his friend to search the house. So he cuts down JonBenet, who is hanging down there. He compromised the crime scene, whether he had anything to do with it or he had nothing to do with it, he cut down his daughter in the crime scene with the DNA.

    KING: So there's nothing you can do to help in a situation...

    WALSH: You know, we've talked about it a couple of times because there were 200 people in that house at Christmas parties the day before. And I've found over the years it's never your trusted maid. It's a crack-addicted boyfriend that gets the key and comes in and robs your house. You know, it always someone affiliated in that area. I always hope that we would, you know, get a tip on that case, that someone would come forward. But I truly think because of the police work, that this case will never be solved.
    ~ Friends are kisses blown to us by angels. ~

  2. #2
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    Hi Blondie,
    I think the general consensus is that John Walsh got it wrong. Although what he said is VERY interesting......I don't think he knows as much about the case as some of us WS'ers do (I'm not including myself --I'm still learning all the little details).

  3. #3
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    I think he did get it wrong. I've read a lot on this case and then it gets depressing so I get away from it for a while....but I keep coming back.
    Anyway, this is the first I've ever read about it. Seems if it were true I would have read it somewhere before.

    Just interesting. I had thought that John Walsh wanted to do and America's Most Wanted epsiode, but it was refused. Geez, who really knows!
    ~ Friends are kisses blown to us by angels. ~

  4. #4
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    I did find this thread dealing with the position of JB's arms:

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthr...ght=john+walsh

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondieskatz View Post
    I think he did get it wrong. I've read a lot on this case and then it gets depressing so I get away from it for a while....but I keep coming back.
    Anyway, this is the first I've ever read about it. Seems if it were true I would have read it somewhere before.

    Just interesting. I had thought that John Walsh wanted to do and America's Most Wanted epsiode, but it was refused. Geez, who really knows!
    You are right, the Ramsey's refused to let AMW do a story on JBR, which I find ODD!!! If your child had of been murdered, GOD FORBID....wouldn't YOU want their story told on AMW in hopes of finding her killer? Yeah....me too.
    "This time we get it right."

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondieskatz View Post
    Hey,

    I wa snooping around on the web today and believe it or not JMK has his own website. I was checking out the FAQ section and ran across this. Has anyone ever heard this?

    LKL Interview

    KING: Have you ever shown an interest the in the JonBenet Ramsey case?

    WALSH: You know, we were asked to do that case a year afterward to try to help the Boulder police, you know, get a couple tips on it. But I think everybody knows that the case was compromised by bad police work in the beginning. I'm not the first one to say that and I'm a great supporter of law enforcement.

    I mean, you are a detective and you go to a kidnapping of a high -- prominent family in a very wealthy area, and then, you know, police work 101, you clear the house and you clear the crime scene. She allowed the father and his friend to search the house. So he cuts down JonBenet, who is hanging down there. He compromised the crime scene, whether he had anything to do with it or he had nothing to do with it, he cut down his daughter in the crime scene with the DNA.

    KING: So there's nothing you can do to help in a situation...

    WALSH: You know, we've talked about it a couple of times because there were 200 people in that house at Christmas parties the day before. And I've found over the years it's never your trusted maid. It's a crack-addicted boyfriend that gets the key and comes in and robs your house. You know, it always someone affiliated in that area. I always hope that we would, you know, get a tip on that case, that someone would come forward. But I truly think because of the police work, that this case will never be solved.
    He got that all wrong...if John had of found his daughter that way and had cut her down, he would have mentioned that little "tidbit" in at least ONE of his interviews. And to be quite honest...I am totally RDI....but, if the Ramsey's had of wanted the intruder theory to be more believable, then...they should have "went" with that story of her hanging up by her arms, and John cutting her down, instead of her being found on the floor, wrapped/swaddled like a "papoose" (Papoose is the word that John, himself uses, in his interview...to describe how the blanket was around her).
    "This time we get it right."

  7. #7
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    Right. There are 2 ways this works: One is if JR found her suspended in some way early that morning, cut her down, and then wrapped her up to be "found" again later. Remember what we know about livor mortis, too. The pattern of blood settling becomes fixed after a short while, and when the body is moved before it becomes fixed, a subsequent pattern will develop, along with the first. So, if she died while suspended, she would have had to be cut down soon after she died, because the livor pattern that WAS seen is in keeping with the way she was "found" at 1pm -lying on her back, arms tied up over her head, head slightly turned to the right- livor on the right side of the face and on her back.
    OR (and I am really not so sure about this) if she was suspended while alive as part of a sexual abuse/sexual bondage scenario. Then the scream comes from JBR either as the cord is tightened and released or as she is being vaginally penetrated, and the head bash comes as a reaction to her scream, to silence her quickly.
    This second scenario puts an even more sinister and horrifying spin on what is already a disgusting and disturbing crime. It indicates that the primary cause of the strangulation WAS the garrotte, and she was alive at the time, as well as the skull fracture resulting from a deliberate bash with a weapon (a bat, golf club, log grabber- like the one PHOTOGRAPHED on the wineceller floor) This is far more horrifying than the first version:
    JBR dying accidentally as the result of a rage attack by a parent and then having her corpse staged to look like a murder is bad enough. The strangulation occurs accidentally with the twisting of her shirt, and the skull fracture occurs when she is slammed into something hard enough to do that damage (a tub or sink edge or faucet, doorknob, etc). The garrotte is made to hide the initial method of strangulation.
    Does JR seem sleazy enough to be responsible for the hanging/abuse/garrotting? Yes. He does.
    Does PR? No. She is an obsessive, neurotic controlling stage mother, but I can't see her participating in that event, as well as covering up for who might have....unless it was her son. Not for JR or JAR. I don't think she'd have covered up for him, fancy lifestyle or not.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  8. #8
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    But the garrote wasn't functional as a garrote,was it?

    What prevents me from thinking JR did it is that I don't think he would have allowed a drugged-up Patsy to appear on national tv if he did it,or if she thought he might have.He seemed to be more in the position of damage control,as if he allowed Patsy to go on tv because he knew she'd never tell on herself.

    It's been said that arresting Patsy would have caused her to start talking...I'm not so sure about that.I think her lawyers would have told her to 'be quiet,we will get you out of here,it's just temporary'.And I think she would have listened.Even so,I think she would have preferred to stay in prison, trying to appear the poor wronged victim of LE,even to the day of her death, rather than admit she killed her own daughter.I think she was all about reputation,or at least,that would been more important to her than the lavish lifestyle.
    JR I am not so sure about.I think he would have turned on Patsy and confessed what he knew asap,if he'd even been behind bars for even one day.I don't think he would have had any tolerance for doing time for a crime she committed.But that's JMO,as I think Patsy was the main perp.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  9. #9
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    JM08778, I have to agree with you. I think it was Patsy that killed her daughter. As for John maybe he went along because he had already lost one daughter and now his other daughter is dead. If he had told on Patsy he would have lost his wife, and not to mention how it would have ruined his reputation! Still, I wouldn't care. I just can't imagine covering for someone who has killed my daughter "accident" or not.

    As far as the JBR being tied up, maybe that had happened ealier before her death. Seems some of the statements JR makes are confused as to what happened after she died and when the actual event occured. JMO
    ~ Friends are kisses blown to us by angels. ~

  10. #10
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    Also, JR had his son BR to think about. If PR had been jailed, and a long, drawn out trial had ensued, it would have been very hard on the boy. His sister's death didn't seem to affect him ONE BIT. But this was a kid who needed his mother. I doubt JR had much to do with BR, nor did he strike me as the type to be "Mr. Mom". I can see JR covering for his wife, especially if it WAS an accident, and he also knew he had friends in high places to get them out of it.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    Also, JR had his son BR to think about. If PR had been jailed, and a long, drawn out trial had ensued, it would have been very hard on the boy. His sister's death didn't seem to affect him ONE BIT. But this was a kid who needed his mother. I doubt JR had much to do with BR, nor did he strike me as the type to be "Mr. Mom". I can see JR covering for his wife, especially if it WAS an accident, and he also knew he had friends in high places to get them out of it.
    That makes sense Dee dee..JR seemed to be the type to have Patsy take care of the homefront,ie-everything else,while he went off to make more money.That seemed to be his main concern.
    I gathered that much from him not going on the chemo trips w. Patsy..he was more concerned with business.She could take care of herself as far as he was concerned.As long as he had a chance to keep business matters going,that was more important.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  12. #12
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    Then again, you can always consider the fact that John didn't actually have anything to do with it. Maybe he had his suspicions after reading the ransom note that Patsy was involved or something happened that made him suspect Patsy that morning. But, he didn't know anything for sure. Could be the reason they were so "distant" from each other that morning (as observed by police and the victims advocates).

    I can't believe or should I say I don't want to believe a parent would do this. So, I think it was an accident and then Patsy went into to overdrive to cover it up. Maybe, John couldn't accept or face the possibilty that Patsy could actually do something like this. I think if he didn't know, she would never have actually come right out and told him she did it. Afterall, it is too horrible!
    ~ Friends are kisses blown to us by angels. ~

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondieskatz View Post
    Then again, you can always consider the fact that John didn't actually have anything to do with it. Maybe he had his suspicions after reading the ransom note that Patsy was involved or something happened that made him suspect Patsy that morning. But, he didn't know anything for sure. Could be the reason they were so "distant" from each other that morning (as observed by police and the victims advocates).

    I can't believe or should I say I don't want to believe a parent would do this. So, I think it was an accident and then Patsy went into to overdrive to cover it up. Maybe, John couldn't accept or face the possibilty that Patsy could actually do something like this. I think if he didn't know, she would never have actually come right out and told him she did it. Afterall, it is too horrible!
    These are worth repeating.

    "Then again, you can always consider the fact that John didn't actually have anything to do with it."

    "Could be the reason they were so "distant" from each other that morning (as observed by police and the victims advocates)."

    "I think if he didn't know, she would never have actually come right out and told him she did it."


    Put yourself in John's shoes that morning. Patsy is on the brink of a complete breakdown and if that happens she could say something and the charade would be over. But John makes no attempt to isolate or guard her that morning when she is the most vulnerable.

    The only conclusion you can reach from this is that Patsy wasn't a threat to John. Patsy couldn't blurt out something and put John in jail. When things were red-hot that morning John made no attempt to isolate Patsy or Burke. This was raw behavior before any lawyers were involved.

  14. #14
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    Albert18

    Yea, all of that makes sense. You could also reason that he did find JB's body earlier that morning, but waited to see if Pastsy would break down and "tell it all". When that didn't happen he went down to the basement and "found" her body.

    Maybe he sat there those hours waiting for her to break down and thought about all the options. Then decided it was in his best interest to go along with Patsy for whatever reason.

    I hope one day we will all know the truth!
    ~ Friends are kisses blown to us by angels. ~

  15. #15
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    JR "suspecting" PR of killing their daughter, albeit accidentally, just doesn't make sense to me. Here we have his daughter dead in the basement. How was JR supposed to think that happened? That she just "died"? There were 2 other people there- his wife and his daughter.
    Did PR show him the note and at first he actually believed she was kidnapped? Not likely, IMO. He HAD to recognize his wife's handwriting.
    To follow that line of thinking- you'd have to have JR not recognizing his wife's handwriting on the note...allowing their son to remain asleep instead of asking him what he may have seen/heard while believing his daughter had really been kidnapped- then he searched the house and finds the body of his supposedly kidnapped daughter- maybe in the basement, maybe in her bathroom or bedroom, begins to suspect his own WIFE had done it and....says NOTHING to her?
    A normal father, even one who was distant and occupied with his business, would have flown into a rage at that point, and possibly called police himself.
    IF that rage occurred, he may have calmed down, and he and PR colluded on how to get her out of it.
    Even so, this is a much harder scenario for me.
    I lean towards PR losing it for whatever reason, accidentally killing her daughter by strangling her with her shirt collar WHILE slamming her head into the sink/tub/faucet/doorknob (pick one). Then hysterically telling JR: "Look what I've DONE!!!" The panic then ensues- JBR is moved to the basement right away, so as not to be seen by BR shoud he wake up and come out of his room. (of course, later BR admits he WAS awake and heard a commotion, but was too afraid to come out of his room). They then put together the plan to stage the death to look like a kidnapping, but they realize that they must account for the fact that she is in reality dead, not kidnapped. The note is actually written last- after the staging. The tell-tale clue to me, is all of the threats about killing her, beheading, etc. if they talk to anyone (even a stray dog). THAT is the part that "explains" the dead child in the home. OOOOHHHHH- they called in friends, and the police- so THAT'S why the "kidnappers" killed her. What this doesn't explain is that in order for the kidnappers to kill her in retaliation for the Rs calling LE or their friends is that the kidnappers would have to be still IN THE HOME to see it. NOT "watching" from another location, car, etc. because the child was killed in the home. So the kidnappers had to be in the home at the time the Rs made the 911 call. And we all know that didn't happen.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

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