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  1. #226
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    I think in this pic you can see the black dots that appear under her chin, around the chin lower cheek areas. I had thought this was from the gun shot sort of a peppered look.

    Someone on another board brought up an interesting point. Regarding Lonnie George Henry and the "murder weapon". They asked if Henry was ever charged for removing the serial number from the gun, since it is a felony to do so.

    So I looked it up and based on the Gun Control Act of 1968 it is a federal crime and a FELONY.... to alter the serial number from a gun. Lonnie Henry ADMITTED to removing the serial number himself. The law indicates its a crime to just be in possesion of an altered gun. Here he is in possesion of the gun, he admits to being the one to alter the gun and he was pulled over for DUI, which is how they found the gun, but they just let him go because he couldnt have done it because he was at the hospital with his wife that night.

    It seems like they could have used this as leverage to get him to tell who did it if NOT HIM.

    If he were sitting in jail facing a couple of felony charges he might have decided to talk rather than take the fall for somebody else. Whoever did it must have been someone close to Lonnie Henry.

    The only good that does us, is if the person who did it remembered anything about the victims.

    (g) to obliterate, remove, change, or alter the serial number or other identification of a firearm required by this chapter;or
    (h) to receive or possess a firearm having the serial number or other identification required by this chapter obliterated, removed, changed, or altered;or
    (i) to receive or possess a firearm which is not identified by a serial number as required by this chapter;or
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  2. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Reannan View Post
    I wish we could make contact with a medical society in Canada and get the word circulating within that community. Maybe someone would remember a colleague that had a missing son from the 1970's. I am not giving up on this case!!!! Dang it!
    As a matter of fact, there is a retired law enforcement officer in Canada who has taken an interest in this case who is working on that angle right now.


  3. #228
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    Sep 2005
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    Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by phenolred View Post
    I think in this pic you can see the black dots that appear under her chin, around the chin lower cheek areas. I had thought this was from the gun shot sort of a peppered look.

    Someone on another board brought up an interesting point. Regarding Lonnie George Henry and the "murder weapon". They asked if Henry was ever charged for removing the serial number from the gun, since it is a felony to do so.

    So I looked it up and based on the Gun Control Act of 1968 it is a federal crime and a FELONY.... to alter the serial number from a gun. Lonnie Henry ADMITTED to removing the serial number himself. The law indicates its a crime to just be in possesion of an altered gun. Here he is in possesion of the gun, he admits to being the one to alter the gun and he was pulled over for DUI, which is how they found the gun, but they just let him go because he couldnt have done it because he was at the hospital with his wife that night.

    It seems like they could have used this as leverage to get him to tell who did it if NOT HIM.

    If he were sitting in jail facing a couple of felony charges he might have decided to talk rather than take the fall for somebody else. Whoever did it must have been someone close to Lonnie Henry.

    The only good that does us, is if the person who did it remembered anything about the victims.

    (g) to obliterate, remove, change, or alter the serial number or other identification of a firearm required by this chapter;or
    (h) to receive or possess a firearm having the serial number or other identification required by this chapter obliterated, removed, changed, or altered;or
    (i) to receive or possess a firearm which is not identified by a serial number as required by this chapter;or
    Wow, good point. I didn't know it was a felony. That makes it all the more strange that LE didn't pursue that in order to get him to talk since he admitted to being the one to file off the serial number!
    Please Help Find Brian Shaffer!



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  4. #229
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    Aug 2005
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    22

    My thoughts as to why this couple has not been identified.

    I apologize in advance for my very long post.

    I personally think too much stock has been put in the fact that they were probably related and the camp ground worker’s husband’s statement about recognizing Jock.

    We should be focusing Identifying each one separately. If you identify one, at least you can then start tracing how their paths met and lead you to iding both. If you look at the original sketches they were pretty much drawn as brother and sister. I think that hindered the case from the get go. The best chance of iding these two was in 1976 or 77. Some one looking for a male or female relative not two relatives might have discounted a match to Jock or Jane since they were considered related.

    I personally think they were not. I find it odd that two people from the same family goes missing and neither one is looked for? That seems very unlikely to me. Even if the father disowned his son, what are the chances he disowned his daughter too or visa versa. Also, Jock had better dental care than Jane. If they were related especially to a doctor, wouldn’t they have received the same level of dental care? Also, I find it more likely that a young man in his 20's would be more apt to choose a girlfriend or even just a friend than his sister as a traveling companion. I think there is a slight resemblance between the two but it could be just a familiar look among what ancestry they have. Example. I am Italian. A lot of people of Italian decent have a familiar look to me even though were are not related. The resembles of the two could be something like that.

    Also, there is no telling how long they knew one another. He could have picked her up anytime in his travels. There could be a huge gap between the time they both went missing from each other. Example. What if he went missing in 1970 and he met her in 1975? A match could be discounted that way also.

    As for the story about Jock at the campground. There is no telling it was the same couple. Take for example what info we had about Maricopa Jane doe. A woman remembered meeting her and her name was Corey or Carla and she could not get a job at a club because she was only 15. Then she said her name might be Diane and she was from Wichita. None of which actually turned out to be correct. He name was actually Tawni, she was 17 and from Arizona.

    Even if people have good intentions, people’s memories can be wrong and a lot of times they are.

    There is a good chance they are not the same couple. If that is the case then he could not even be from Canada. He could be American, Mexican, European, he could be from anywhere.

    Also, everyone that did have info pertaining to this case have since passed on. So they can’t even be requestioned or shown pictures etc. What if he was shown one of the old sketches which on my opinion do not look like them really.

    If I come up with any more Ideas I will post. Let me know if anyone agrees with me.


  5. #230
    Hi Mark

    I have never been under the impression that this couple were related. I have also spoken to the authorities in Sumter on many occasions and they are not certain about that either. That is one thing the DNA should determine, but I am not of the opinion that the theory they are brother and sister has been heavily pushed by anyone who has looked at this case. We simply don't know.

    As for the campground manager's account of meeting a couple that fit their description, it is entirely possible that they were different people. The thing that stands out is that the man represented himself as a person with a "J" first name, which lines up with the initials on the ring the John Doe was wearing. If the man at the campground had said his name was Fred, I think the campground worker's account would hold far less water. The main issue though, is that the Canada angle was never followed up on by anyone. The report laid in the case file for decades. That is why the Canada angle is being explored now, because more than anything, it needs to be ruled out.

    The Canada explanation also makes sense to me in other ways. If they were from Canada, that would explain perhaps why no one has come looking for them. Back in those days, cross-border LE coordination was not really happening. In addition, people could just leave and missing persons reports were just not taken by the police and if they were, they are probably archived or lost by now.

    The thought has also crossed my mind that the male was a draft dodger who lived in Canada for while and had returned back to the States. The possibilities are endless.


  6. #231
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    Aug 2005
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    22
    rmf. You make some very good points. I agree that any lead regardless how small must be followed and it is true the Canada angle was never fully investigated back in 1976. Another thought of the campground lead. If they were staying at a campground they would have to have a car or some kind of transportation right? If they were not taken to the place where they were killed in their own vehicle, I wonder if any reports from that time exist of abandoned cars or any cars that were towed in the area. If could be that their car was left somewhere and taken to impound as a abandoned car etc.


  7. #232
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    Sep 2005
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    Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Franzeo View Post
    I apologize in advance for my very long post.

    I personally think too much stock has been put in the fact that they were probably related and the camp ground worker’s husband’s statement about recognizing Jock.

    We should be focusing Identifying each one separately. If you identify one, at least you can then start tracing how their paths met and lead you to iding both. If you look at the original sketches they were pretty much drawn as brother and sister. I think that hindered the case from the get go. The best chance of iding these two was in 1976 or 77. Some one looking for a male or female relative not two relatives might have discounted a match to Jock or Jane since they were considered related.

    I personally think they were not. I find it odd that two people from the same family goes missing and neither one is looked for? That seems very unlikely to me. Even if the father disowned his son, what are the chances he disowned his daughter too or visa versa. Also, Jock had better dental care than Jane. If they were related especially to a doctor, wouldn’t they have received the same level of dental care? Also, I find it more likely that a young man in his 20's would be more apt to choose a girlfriend or even just a friend than his sister as a traveling companion. I think there is a slight resemblance between the two but it could be just a familiar look among what ancestry they have. Example. I am Italian. A lot of people of Italian decent have a familiar look to me even though were are not related. The resembles of the two could be something like that.

    Also, there is no telling how long they knew one another. He could have picked her up anytime in his travels. There could be a huge gap between the time they both went missing from each other. Example. What if he went missing in 1970 and he met her in 1975? A match could be discounted that way also.

    As for the story about Jock at the campground. There is no telling it was the same couple. Take for example what info we had about Maricopa Jane doe. A woman remembered meeting her and her name was Corey or Carla and she could not get a job at a club because she was only 15. Then she said her name might be Diane and she was from Wichita. None of which actually turned out to be correct. He name was actually Tawni, she was 17 and from Arizona.

    Even if people have good intentions, people’s memories can be wrong and a lot of times they are.

    There is a good chance they are not the same couple. If that is the case then he could not even be from Canada. He could be American, Mexican, European, he could be from anywhere.

    Also, everyone that did have info pertaining to this case have since passed on. So they can’t even be requestioned or shown pictures etc. What if he was shown one of the old sketches which on my opinion do not look like them really.

    If I come up with any more Ideas I will post. Let me know if anyone agrees with me.
    You have presented some very interesting thoughts. Thanks for weighing in on this case.

    I personally have never thought they were related. I considered the possibility as some people had mentioned it on here but in the end, I just couldn't believe they were. I think you're right, with the early sketches of the two they did sort of resemble each other, which kind of started out the investigation in the wrong direction by mentioning that they could have been brother and sister. Then people naturally looked for similarities between the two of them. But after viewing the morgue and crime scene photos I didn't think they looked alike. And I totally agree that if two people were missing from the same family it would be unbelievable that no one was looking for them.

    I realize they could be from anywhere. I just have a "feeling" about one or both of them being from Canada. Of course that doesn't mean they are. I just mentioned to someone last week that the whole story John Doe told the guy at the campground could have been made up and we could be barking up the wrong tree. Because I just keep leaning towards Canada, I will probably continue my main searching there, but I do also search in the USA and Europe as well, particularly France.

    All the odds in this case are stacked against ever identifying them or solving the murders. But I still believe it's possible they can be identified. There have been a lot of bad breaks too in this case what with the registration cards from the campground burning in a fire and the guy from the campground being deceased when LE went to talk to him again. Now we realize that filing the serial number from a gun is a felony offense and LE could have held Lonnie Henry on that charge until he talked but he was never charged with anything.

    Hopefully, when LE gets the DNA back that will put the investigation in a new direction and they will be able to find a match somewhere!
    Please Help Find Brian Shaffer!



    www.findbrianshaffer.com


  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Franzeo View Post
    rmf. You make some very good points. I agree that any lead regardless how small must be followed and it is true the Canada angle was never fully investigated back in 1976. Another thought of the campground lead. If they were staying at a campground they would have to have a car or some kind of transportation right? If they were not taken to the place where they were killed in their own vehicle, I wonder if any reports from that time exist of abandoned cars or any cars that were towed in the area. If could be that their car was left somewhere and taken to impound as a abandoned car etc.
    Its my understanding that there are/were alot of swamp like areas where a car could be driven in never to be seen again.


  9. #234
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    Apr 2005
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    orange county, ny
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    The couple may also have been hitchhiking, with no vehicle. They may have been carrying all their belongings in backpacks, which would have been easy enough for the killer to ditch. As was stated early on, this was the summer of '76, the American Bicentennial. The summer was basicilly one non-stop party from coast to coast.

    All I've seen of the crime scene are the couple of photos that were posted on sites like Crime Library. The 'road' looks less like a road than a wide path through the weeds. I know it had a name, but still...Anyone know more about it?


  10. #235
    About a vehicle: the case reports indicate the tire tracks at the scene likely belonged to a van. It is possible the van was theirs and they were sleeping in it at campgrounds and then staying in motels every few days. I say this because Mrs Moore told me in one of our conversations that the couple were very clean when they were found and that it appeared they had showered within the day or so before they were killed. That's why I really don't think they were hitchhiking. Also the girl had on wedge heeled sandals which would make walking and hitching very difficult, IMO.

    I also forgot to add in my earlier post that there are several common denominators that point back to Canada:

    - the campground worker's account
    - the truckstop matches-- there was a Grant's truck stop in York, New Brunswick (as the other poster also stated)
    - they look (to me anyway) to be Quebecois or Acadian.
    - the lack of any search for them and that they were unknown to people in the community
    - the ring/the name Jock/Jacques


  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmf View Post
    About a vehicle: the case reports indicate the tire tracks at the scene likely belonged to a van. It is possible the van was theirs and they were sleeping in it at campgrounds and then staying in motels every few days. I say this because Mrs Moore told me in one of our conversations that the couple were very clean when they were found and that it appeared they had showered within the day or so before they were killed. That's why I really don't think they were hitchhiking. Also the girl had on wedge heeled sandals which would make walking and hitching very difficult, IMO.

    I also forgot to add in my earlier post that there are several common denominators that point back to Canada:

    - the campground worker's account
    - the truckstop matches-- there was a Grant's truck stop in York, New Brunswick (as the other poster also stated)
    - they look (to me anyway) to be Quebecois or Acadian.
    - the lack of any search for them and that they were unknown to people in the community
    - the ring/the name Jock/Jacques
    If that were based on my post, I meant York Nebraska...Sorry for the confusion.


  12. #237
    Ah. My mistake shadow!


  13. #238
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    Sep 2007
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    13
    the years are off but this female bears a striking resemblance to Mary Francis Gregory another possible match Maria Anjiras


  14. #239
    The key to IDing the female in this case are the moles on the left side of her mouth. According the coroner, she was born with them. If we can find someone with those two moles, then we're gold.


  15. #240
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South Carolina
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    You guys are the best!!! I am totally obsessed with this case. I live in South Carolina, although not on the coast. I could be at the exact location in about two hours, however - and I am willing to go anywhere in the state that you guys think would be helpful. I also do not believe the couple was brother and sister, although I can see where that possibility was valid. He seems a bit older than her, and I just don't see brother and sister travelling together like that, and neither being missed by family. The Canadian connection feels right to me because of the way Jock/Jacques looked. Also, the name "Jock" would have been pretty rare in SC during the 1970's, and the initials on the ring add some credence to this name. She was definitely NOT from South Carolina, or even from the South. She did not shave her legs, and no decent Southern woman would be caught dead not shaving her legs in the 1970's. I moved to Michigan in the early 1980's for a while, and managed to get into an argument with women from the North over this issue. Long story..... Anyway, one of the questions that I have not seen explored a lot, is the motive for the crime. Why? Why were they killed? IMHO, it was a robbery. No wallet, money, or identification was left behind with either of the victims - so what happened to it??? They HAD to have had some ID at some point! Was it their van that was being driven? I am on the fence with this one. I can easily see a couple that was drifting around the country accepting a ride with someone who seemed "friendly" at first - someone who they had met at the campground perhaps. I can also easily see a couple with a van picking up a "nice" stranger in need and giving him/her a ride. I wonder if any other campgrounds along I-95 would still have records from 1976??? Has anyone explored that angle?


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